30 years ago!

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I do enjoy the expertise of those "regulars" on here and the content on this Board in general

I wonder though if we sometimes try to re-invent the past so the following may be of interest

From the English "MOTOR" magazine ( the twenty fifth annual edition of their Road Tests ) in 1973 - 30 years ago

Covering cars ranging from Alfa Romeo, Audi, BMW thru Honda Civic, FIAT, Rolls, Mercedes, Porsche and etc to VW - 54 vehicles in all. None from the USA but one from Russia - a Moskvich, and a Skoda too!

33 vehicles have their recommended oils listed and the breakdown follows

10w-20 (1) Audi
10w-30 (1) Audi
10w-40 (2) 1 of these was Peugeot
10w-50 (2) Both Mercedes
20w-20 (1) VW
20w-40 (5)
20w-50 (20) Including Honda Civic,Mazda,Rolls
30 (1) VW

The Germans were starting to recommend light oils ( 10w-20 ) over thirty years ago!

I was an early user of German Castrol SLX 0w-30
when first released here in 1996

Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual ( Delvac 1 )
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual ( Delvac 1 )
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto ( Delvac 1 )

 

[TallPaul]

Fascinating! Remember also in the 70s they has these multigrades with labels like 10w-20w-30? It would be interesting to go back and look at some of the oils we had back in the "good old days." I used to be a pump jockey in the 70s and put many a quart of oil in customer's cars. Seems the standard practice back then was 10w40 in the summer and 10w30 in the winter. Those were some pretty "crude" oils compared to what's available today. Next spring when my wife starts running me around to garage sales again, I'm going to see if I can find old unopened oil cans to buy. Ahhh, something to look forward to in the spring.

[ December 06, 2003, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]

 

[JonS]

I've seen under the hoods of many 60's mustangs. They all recommend 10w-30 every 6 months or 6000 miles.

 

[TheTanSedan]

1971 Chrysler CHASSIS SERVICE MANUAL
pp 0-13 thru 0-15

ENGINE OIL -- SELECTION OF

For best performance, and to provide for maximum protection of all engines for all types of operation, only those lubricants should be selected which:

[a] Conform to the requirements of the API classification "FOR SERVICE MS" or "SD"
Have the proper SAE grade number for the expected ambient temperature range (Fig 21) [Great Lakes and farther north]

Oil Viscosity Recommendations

Multigrades
(Where temperatures are consistently above 32F):
SAE 20W-50/20W-40/10W-40 or 10W-30

(Suitable for year long operation in many parts of the US; may be used where temperatures occasionally drop as low as -10F)
SAE 10W-30/10W-40

(Recommended where minimum temperatures are consistently below +10F)
SAE 5W-30/5W-20

Single Grades
(Where temperatures are consistenly above +32F)
SAE 30
(Where temperatures range between +32F and -10F)
SAE 10W

IMPORTANT

If the vehicle is to be used for maximum performance service (very high speeds or very rapid acceleration), the engine requires heavier than normal lubricating oil. This is due to the high speeds, loads, and temperature of moving parts developed in these engines during this type of operation.
FOR BEST PROTECTION OF THE ENGINE UNDER THESE CONDITIONS THE HEAVIEST AVAILABLE ENGINE OIL OF MS OR SD QUALITY SHOULD BE USED THAT WILL PERMIT SATISFACTORY COLD STARTING. SAE 30 AND 40 ARE RECOMMENDED; MULTIVISCOSITY OILS SAE 20W-40 AND SAE 20W-50 MAY ALSO BE USED. IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT CHRYSLER PARTS HIGH PERFORMANCE SPERM OIL ADDITIVE (PART #3549586) BE ADDED TO THE CRANKCASE AT EVERY ENGINE OIL CHANGE IN ADDITION TO THE REGULAR CRANKCASE ENGINE OIL FILL.

MATERIALS ADDED TO ENGINE OILS

(Info about the Sperm Oil Additive, especially for the High Performance four-barrel and three two barrel carburetor engines) . . "This material may be used in these engines to aid in break-in following overhaul or piston replacement. This material may be used in any engine, but its use in high performance engines is strongly recommended".

FREQUENCY OF ENGINE OIL CHANGES

(essentially, 3-months or 4000 miles; filter every other change)

Severe Service (Frequency of Oil and Oil Filter Change)

1. Police, Taxi and Limousine Operations.
[a] Change oil every two months or 2000 miles.
Change oil filter every oil change.

(Same for private owners with cold op-temps, prolonged idling, very dusty or HD trailer towing).

NOTE: for those not familiar, 1971 was one of the last years of the mechanical (non-electronic) ignition; the 426 HEMI, the 440 Six-Pack and 440 HP engines all had 9.7:1 compression or a little better (as rated). Other engines were 225 Slant-6, 318-2V, 340-4V, 360-2V, 383-2V & 4V, 440-4V.
1972 saw the downrated HP figures, lowered compressions (already on some engines), etc, etc, as to emissions controls.

 

[labman]

I have an unopened can of FC-5048. It is a Wagner wheel cylinder piston. Maybe I should post it to Ebay. I have an opened FC-3158 can now containing miscellaneous hose clamps. It originally had 10 wheel cylinder boots. These were square cardboard with metal ends. They must go back to the 40's or 50's. They made great containers for thingamabobs and whatmacallits. Nothing beat the old stubby coffee cans.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
TheTanSedan - great stuff!

I did some development work on the first pre-export production Morris "Mini" ( THE Mini ) in New Zealand in 1959

It's combined engine/gearbox called for a 20w-50 oil which was not available then in NZ ( it leaked so much it probably did'nt matter what you put in )
We did have Castrolite 20w-30, Castrol XL 30-40 and Castrol XXL 30-50 though

Mobiloil "Special" 10w-30 was available in 1956 - it was sold in gold 1 pint cans!

Nobody trusted the new fangled multigrades then though - "too thin, like horse p***, thinner than water" were typical comments nearly 50 years ago!

Regards

 

[mikemc]

I am a volly fireman and our 1972 Ford C750 still has the owners' manual in the glove box! I read through it for grins a while back and straight 30 or 40 was recommended except for cold temps where 20w20 was tops. I guess the 'new' 20 weights aren't so new. Hmmm.

 

[Ironthinker]

Those old oil cans are available on Ebay. You can search by brand or just "oil can" . I'm sure 10W40 is the number you will find most after the single weights.

There is no end to the fun we can have with engine oil.

 

[TallPaul]

From a reprint of the Ford F-series truck owner's manual of 1950 (available at fordtrucks.com):

"Temperatures above +32F use S.A.E. 30 oil. Minimum temperature above +10F use S.A.E. 20 or 20w. Minimum temperature above -10F use S.A.E. 10 or 10w oil. Temperatuures lower than -10F use 10w plus 10% kekrosene."

 

[DavoNF]

quote:

---

Temperatuures lower than -10F use 10w plus 10% kekrosene."

---

This is interesting. Maybe an engine flush with kerosene or diesel might not be so harmful as I thought. I would love to see a UOA from such a vehicle.

Dave

 

[Sin City]

Doug Hillary, just out of curiosity what oil did the Moskovich and Skoda require?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Actually the Czech Skodas' were a reasonable car with a good engineering heritage, but with a rear motor and rear swing axles they did the typical VW 180deg spin with gay abandon. And you could almost hear them rusting!

The Moskvich - what a car. Built like a brick toilet, heavy and ungainly - they produced all sorts of problems!

They called for mono grades as good lubricants were un-available in Russia. The Czechs had a range of oils available.
We used diesel HD monogrades a lot, 20w-50 too and the more expensive HD diesel 10w/20w-40 oils with "regular" customers

The "Zaphrojets" from Russia were another thing. V4's and rear engined, they were an intellectual challenge. These were mono grade oil cars too

When they leaked too much 20w-50 was their diet

Like many other cars of the time ( VW and etc. ) sludging was a real issue and we always used the expensive HD diesel oils ( Delo )mono or multigrade where any deposits were evident

Regards

[ December 07, 2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[Sin City]

Doug, thanks for the information. I have been to Russia and Belarus (Belarussia). I had a wonderful time there but they sure did have some crapy cars. They did make one car that I liked, the Volga. The Volga seemed to look a lot like the Volvo 240.

[ December 08, 2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Sin City ]

 

[jsharp]

From the Datsun L13, L16, L20 series engine manual - 1972.

So, why are you looking for those 40 and 50 weights to run in your 70's Datsun 510? If I'm reading this correctly, the only place you should use a 40 weight is on the carburetor linkage...

[ December 09, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Sin City - yes the Volga was a reasonable car and I think the Eastern European diplomatic staff used them in Copenhagen when I lived there in the 1960s

jsharp - thanks, the chart sure confirms the use of 10w-30 oils and its universuality!

Does this raise the thick versus thin debate again?
Some people on here would probably declare these engines as "loose build" and not "tight build" and therefore only 20w-50 oils would do!

The Datsun chart doesn't even list a 20w-50

Regards