No product made period will clean up 'under the valve cover'. Again I ask where does this American obsession come from? I have asked every local mechanic I know about 'looking under the valve cover' and their comments are not repeatable here. I eventually realised it's a myth as no sane person will decide on a whim to remove the valve cover which takes an inordinate amount of work on any vehicle, and on an older vehicles will require as a minimum removal and replacement of the valve cover gasket, on many vehicles like my BMW not a trivial or inexpensive exeercise. So I realised it's a myth, but then who is perpetuating this myth I ask? From there I have no idea and neither has anybody in the automotive industry here I can find. Over to our U.S cousins as the British say for an explanation, but I won't hold my breath.
3 ARX cycles, didn't do much, bummer..
- Thread starter mdocod
- Start date
- Status
I guess you'll be looking for pictures, so let me say up front I don't have any. Quote: No product made period will clean up 'under the valve cover'. That statement is totally wrong, and I am hoping some of the people who have actually seen results will comment here, or someone better with the search function will weigh in.
I've seen first hand how using MMO has cleaned under the valve covers more than once. There are success stories with other products as well so this isn’t all about MMO. IIRC that there are others who have said the same thing, the search engine here leaves a lot to the imagination but it is in quite a few threads here. It isn't an American obsession; it is reality that perhaps you have chosen not to believe. Respectfully.
I've seen first hand how using MMO has cleaned under the valve covers more than once. There are success stories with other products as well so this isn’t all about MMO. IIRC that there are others who have said the same thing, the search engine here leaves a lot to the imagination but it is in quite a few threads here. It isn't an American obsession; it is reality that perhaps you have chosen not to believe. Respectfully.
Just a quick look through a recent thread about people seeing cleaning in their valve train area I thought I'd share. I didn't paste my experiences. My wish is that people would actually try, or be able to try different products before they bash them. JMO
#1742352 - 01/14/10 04:29 AM Another mmo thread
grease_monkey
Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 288
Loc: oregon So two weeks ago at work I was doing a pm service on an 99 E350 Ford van, and during the service I Looked at the dip stick and the fill cap and noticed sludge like deposits on both of them. Well the owner of the van ( a janitorial supply company who we do fleet management for) automatically authorizes us to do any other necessary work that needs to be done (brakes, coolant, ball joints, etc). So i decided to mix in some mmo with the fresh oil that i was putting in. sump capacity is 7 qts so that was a 1.5qts (about 25%) of mmo, and 5.5 qts of valvoline all climate 5W20, and Sent the van on it's way. Well earlier this morning the van came back in to the shop with a coolant leak coming from the small hose on the surge tank, which turned out to be a worn worm gear clamp. After fixing that i decided to check the dip stick and fill tube, and i noticed the sludge on the cap was gone, and the sludge on the dip stick tube was reduced. I also noticed that the oil was very dark, almost like a dark brown, and it only has 1000 miles on it. I decided to change the filter again, but leave the oil in there. This stuff is simply more than just a solvent.
_________________________
2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 0W30 Mobil 1 & FRAM Extended guard oil filter
Re: mmo works again [Re: gathermewool]
panthermike
Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 1366
Loc: Phoenix, AZ I couldn't get any pics(baffle in the way), but I saw deposits removed after using MMO in my Corolla(in the valvetrain) towards the end of 3 OCI's. I was surprised by this because the car wasn't neglected and also had 2 ARX treatments. I do have two pics of the oil drained from only 1700 miles w/ MMO, but most here will say oil color means nothing.
_________________________
2003 Toyota Corolla; Schaeffer 9000.
2009 Ford Ranger; Schaeffer 5w20.
“Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are” -Kurt Cobain
#1742352 - 01/14/10 04:29 AM Another mmo thread
grease_monkey
Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 288
Loc: oregon So two weeks ago at work I was doing a pm service on an 99 E350 Ford van, and during the service I Looked at the dip stick and the fill cap and noticed sludge like deposits on both of them. Well the owner of the van ( a janitorial supply company who we do fleet management for) automatically authorizes us to do any other necessary work that needs to be done (brakes, coolant, ball joints, etc). So i decided to mix in some mmo with the fresh oil that i was putting in. sump capacity is 7 qts so that was a 1.5qts (about 25%) of mmo, and 5.5 qts of valvoline all climate 5W20, and Sent the van on it's way. Well earlier this morning the van came back in to the shop with a coolant leak coming from the small hose on the surge tank, which turned out to be a worn worm gear clamp. After fixing that i decided to check the dip stick and fill tube, and i noticed the sludge on the cap was gone, and the sludge on the dip stick tube was reduced. I also noticed that the oil was very dark, almost like a dark brown, and it only has 1000 miles on it. I decided to change the filter again, but leave the oil in there. This stuff is simply more than just a solvent.
_________________________
2000 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 0W30 Mobil 1 & FRAM Extended guard oil filter
Re: mmo works again [Re: gathermewool]
panthermike
Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 1366
Loc: Phoenix, AZ I couldn't get any pics(baffle in the way), but I saw deposits removed after using MMO in my Corolla(in the valvetrain) towards the end of 3 OCI's. I was surprised by this because the car wasn't neglected and also had 2 ARX treatments. I do have two pics of the oil drained from only 1700 miles w/ MMO, but most here will say oil color means nothing.
_________________________
2003 Toyota Corolla; Schaeffer 9000.
2009 Ford Ranger; Schaeffer 5w20.
“Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are” -Kurt Cobain
Originally Posted By: sprintman
No product made period will clean up 'under the valve cover'. Again I ask where does this American obsession come from? I have asked every local mechanic I know about 'looking under the valve cover' and their comments are not repeatable here. I eventually realised it's a myth as no sane person will decide on a whim to remove the valve cover which takes an inordinate amount of work on any vehicle, and on an older vehicles will require as a minimum removal and replacement of the valve cover gasket, on many vehicles like my BMW not a trivial or inexpensive exeercise. So I realised it's a myth, but then who is perpetuating this myth I ask? From there I have no idea and neither has anybody in the automotive industry here I can find. Over to our U.S cousins as the British say for an explanation, but I won't hold my breath.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee249/azfordf100man/bob.jpg
Actually, if you click on this link, you can see a pick that Bob was nice enough to show members a few years back, I believe it was his special mix of a bottle of Schaeffer's Neutra and 1 quart of ATF, I believe he ran this for about 800 miles, nice results from what I can see.
No product made period will clean up 'under the valve cover'. Again I ask where does this American obsession come from? I have asked every local mechanic I know about 'looking under the valve cover' and their comments are not repeatable here. I eventually realised it's a myth as no sane person will decide on a whim to remove the valve cover which takes an inordinate amount of work on any vehicle, and on an older vehicles will require as a minimum removal and replacement of the valve cover gasket, on many vehicles like my BMW not a trivial or inexpensive exeercise. So I realised it's a myth, but then who is perpetuating this myth I ask? From there I have no idea and neither has anybody in the automotive industry here I can find. Over to our U.S cousins as the British say for an explanation, but I won't hold my breath.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee249/azfordf100man/bob.jpg
Actually, if you click on this link, you can see a pick that Bob was nice enough to show members a few years back, I believe it was his special mix of a bottle of Schaeffer's Neutra and 1 quart of ATF, I believe he ran this for about 800 miles, nice results from what I can see.
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Why do people insist that ATF has good cleaning properties?
Will something other than ARX do? [Re: rsylvstr]
beanoil
Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1199
Loc: Midwest, Illinois Well, what the heck... I'm giving it a try. I found some deposits yesterday when replacing leaky VC gaskets. The patient is a 95 Chevy K1500, 350 V-8. 151500 miles, all on whatever cheap conventional my Sis could afford, when she could afford it. I bought the truck from her with 150k on it, and have been running Maxlife. You would never know this truck was sludged up... runs smooth, no smoke, minor oil usage (assumed leaking out of VC area), and 17mpg while towing. So, today, I did it's spring oil change, 4 quarts of Delvac, 12 ounces of Neutra, and 20 ounces of Dexron II. Used a Maxlife filter for the inevitable sludge catching that will go on. I had all this on hand, thus the motivation to try it and see. It will take a several months to rack up 800 miles, so we'll see what happens. If the Neutra works, Schaeffers is local in downtown Saint Louis, and I'll begin to use the recommended 1 ounce per quart when I change oil. If not.. I'll give ARX a try. BUT... the burning question in my mind is.. How do you stop the formation of sludge in the first place? We have UOA's to show performance and wear trends, but how would you go about analyzing the sludge to determine what it is made of? Is synthetic the answer? HDEO's? Blends, Brews? Pictures of regular M1 users engines certainly do not look like what I saw under the valve covers, but do they tow trailers, and have a constant temp reading of 210? Or is it a function of miles, regardless of oil type? The truck specs SG oil... I'm sure it had gallons of it in it's early life. Maybe the sludge is from that oil... The world may never know.
_________________________
Will something other than ARX do? [Re: BrianWC]
beanoil
Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1199
Loc: Midwest, Illinois Update..
700 miles including towing the trailer (5000 pounds loaded, plus firewood and moped in the bed of the truck) have passed. I dropped the oil today. Filthy pretty much describes what I saw. Black. Black cat in a barrel at midnight black. No deposits left on the side of a beaker when swirled like a wine taster, but black like 5000 mile oil. No grit when rubbed between the fingers either. Replaced it with 4 quarts of Superflo, and one M1 for a 20% blend and a P1 filter. If the color is any indication of cleaning, (I know it isn't. That's a very subjective observation at best.) the Neutra certainly appears to work. I'm impressed with Delvac also. Oil pressure was consistant, and it looks like it holds dirt well. If nothing else, an interesting experiment.
_________________________
beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
It seems this gentleman followed Bob's suggestion of using 12 ounces of Neutra and 20 ounces of ATF and he believes that Neutra seems to work.
Why do people insist that ATF has good cleaning properties?
Will something other than ARX do? [Re: rsylvstr]
beanoil
Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1199
Loc: Midwest, Illinois Well, what the heck... I'm giving it a try. I found some deposits yesterday when replacing leaky VC gaskets. The patient is a 95 Chevy K1500, 350 V-8. 151500 miles, all on whatever cheap conventional my Sis could afford, when she could afford it. I bought the truck from her with 150k on it, and have been running Maxlife. You would never know this truck was sludged up... runs smooth, no smoke, minor oil usage (assumed leaking out of VC area), and 17mpg while towing. So, today, I did it's spring oil change, 4 quarts of Delvac, 12 ounces of Neutra, and 20 ounces of Dexron II. Used a Maxlife filter for the inevitable sludge catching that will go on. I had all this on hand, thus the motivation to try it and see. It will take a several months to rack up 800 miles, so we'll see what happens. If the Neutra works, Schaeffers is local in downtown Saint Louis, and I'll begin to use the recommended 1 ounce per quart when I change oil. If not.. I'll give ARX a try. BUT... the burning question in my mind is.. How do you stop the formation of sludge in the first place? We have UOA's to show performance and wear trends, but how would you go about analyzing the sludge to determine what it is made of? Is synthetic the answer? HDEO's? Blends, Brews? Pictures of regular M1 users engines certainly do not look like what I saw under the valve covers, but do they tow trailers, and have a constant temp reading of 210? Or is it a function of miles, regardless of oil type? The truck specs SG oil... I'm sure it had gallons of it in it's early life. Maybe the sludge is from that oil... The world may never know.
_________________________
Will something other than ARX do? [Re: BrianWC]
beanoil
Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1199
Loc: Midwest, Illinois Update..
700 miles including towing the trailer (5000 pounds loaded, plus firewood and moped in the bed of the truck) have passed. I dropped the oil today. Filthy pretty much describes what I saw. Black. Black cat in a barrel at midnight black. No deposits left on the side of a beaker when swirled like a wine taster, but black like 5000 mile oil. No grit when rubbed between the fingers either. Replaced it with 4 quarts of Superflo, and one M1 for a 20% blend and a P1 filter. If the color is any indication of cleaning, (I know it isn't. That's a very subjective observation at best.) the Neutra certainly appears to work. I'm impressed with Delvac also. Oil pressure was consistant, and it looks like it holds dirt well. If nothing else, an interesting experiment.
_________________________
beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
It seems this gentleman followed Bob's suggestion of using 12 ounces of Neutra and 20 ounces of ATF and he believes that Neutra seems to work.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Why do people insist that ATF has good cleaning properties?
It's a para-myth. In the 70's GM issued TSB's to use ATF to quiet lifter ticking in SBC's. The assumption was that this "cleaned" the fouled lifter. What really occurred is that the ATF was used as a thinning agent.
There were also instances where, for example, a leaking vacuum modulator would show a totally clean piston, while the rest were carbon fouled. The vacuum modulator was typically tapped to the driver rear intake runner and not the central intake point. Hence one cylinder was isolated. Most engines that required this service were 60's engines that were subjected to the lousy fuel management of carburetors and were frequently carbon laden. The ATF acted as a ULC "drip" ..much like the MMO inverse oiler.
Splash fed areas will clean as they're exposed to enough dwell time of any agent. Many valve cover deposits aren't due to splash fed anything. They're due to baking of vapors. If you never get any liquid there that's not also going to bake on, it will never get clean.
I don't know how many times I have to show this image. Some people just can't seem to use their eyes.
SPLASH FED AREA - VARIABLE STATES OF CLEAN AS WAS THE RATE OF EXPOSURE ..how much simpler can it be to integrate?? Maybe Romp-a-Room style would be more productive.
By geeaea at 2007-10-18
Why do people insist that ATF has good cleaning properties?
It's a para-myth. In the 70's GM issued TSB's to use ATF to quiet lifter ticking in SBC's. The assumption was that this "cleaned" the fouled lifter. What really occurred is that the ATF was used as a thinning agent.
There were also instances where, for example, a leaking vacuum modulator would show a totally clean piston, while the rest were carbon fouled. The vacuum modulator was typically tapped to the driver rear intake runner and not the central intake point. Hence one cylinder was isolated. Most engines that required this service were 60's engines that were subjected to the lousy fuel management of carburetors and were frequently carbon laden. The ATF acted as a ULC "drip" ..much like the MMO inverse oiler.
Splash fed areas will clean as they're exposed to enough dwell time of any agent. Many valve cover deposits aren't due to splash fed anything. They're due to baking of vapors. If you never get any liquid there that's not also going to bake on, it will never get clean.
I don't know how many times I have to show this image. Some people just can't seem to use their eyes.
SPLASH FED AREA - VARIABLE STATES OF CLEAN AS WAS THE RATE OF EXPOSURE ..how much simpler can it be to integrate?? Maybe Romp-a-Room style would be more productive.
Ths is a really old post.....
However, One thing that is worth noting, the mileage intervals for AutoRX have been increased since then.
This might well be an example of the reasoning behind the increase.
Also.....This is a OIL additive, so it is not going to clean where the oil does not get to.
And....I would expect that it would take a lot longer for areas that get less oil exposure.
For buildup from vapors that settle out, AutoRX would only clean if it also vaporized and settled with the deposit.
One other thing, maybe there is enough buildup that the AutoRX gets "used up" and will take longer.....providing the oil gets to the areas in the picture.....and it looks like it would get at least some.
A fast solvent type cleaning might have been the worst thing to do for the OP's motor.....causing the sludge to move from where it is, into the passages that the oil flows to to get back into the pan.....causing more trouble than he had to start with.
The OP did say that the motor was running great.....so hopefully over time, the motor did clean up.
There is also the fact that what works for one person may not work for another.
I thought I saw some improvement in the OP's pictures......He was expecting more, and maybe he found a product that was better for his application.
It would be nice if there was a product that was the best for every situation, dream on.
It is also possible that it looks the exact same today, and is still running just great for him.
Some have mentioned the AutoRX website as raising their expectations over what they actually saw.
I would say that those same folks have felt let down by many other products that they have used (not limited to automotive products).
Take advertising at face value, and one cannot help be be disappointed.......I sure have over the years.
We are bombarded by advertising every day that builds up their producst a lot more than the AutoRX website.
However, One thing that is worth noting, the mileage intervals for AutoRX have been increased since then.
This might well be an example of the reasoning behind the increase.
Also.....This is a OIL additive, so it is not going to clean where the oil does not get to.
And....I would expect that it would take a lot longer for areas that get less oil exposure.
For buildup from vapors that settle out, AutoRX would only clean if it also vaporized and settled with the deposit.
One other thing, maybe there is enough buildup that the AutoRX gets "used up" and will take longer.....providing the oil gets to the areas in the picture.....and it looks like it would get at least some.
A fast solvent type cleaning might have been the worst thing to do for the OP's motor.....causing the sludge to move from where it is, into the passages that the oil flows to to get back into the pan.....causing more trouble than he had to start with.
The OP did say that the motor was running great.....so hopefully over time, the motor did clean up.
There is also the fact that what works for one person may not work for another.
I thought I saw some improvement in the OP's pictures......He was expecting more, and maybe he found a product that was better for his application.
It would be nice if there was a product that was the best for every situation, dream on.
It is also possible that it looks the exact same today, and is still running just great for him.
Some have mentioned the AutoRX website as raising their expectations over what they actually saw.
I would say that those same folks have felt let down by many other products that they have used (not limited to automotive products).
Take advertising at face value, and one cannot help be be disappointed.......I sure have over the years.
We are bombarded by advertising every day that builds up their producst a lot more than the AutoRX website.
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Pity you didn't take before/after compression tests. Splash lubed areas like those in your picture won't see much cleaning. Pressure fed areas do. I think it looks prety good really
If Splash Lubed areas will not see much cleaning with arx maybe they need to put a disclaimer on the back of the bottle that says, " Auto-Rx cleans everything except under valve covers since they are splash fed areas."
We can also say that auto-rx has a very hard time cleaning varnish but its great in cleaning Ring Packs and Oil Pressure Fed Areas.
Pity you didn't take before/after compression tests. Splash lubed areas like those in your picture won't see much cleaning. Pressure fed areas do. I think it looks prety good really
If Splash Lubed areas will not see much cleaning with arx maybe they need to put a disclaimer on the back of the bottle that says, " Auto-Rx cleans everything except under valve covers since they are splash fed areas."
We can also say that auto-rx has a very hard time cleaning varnish but its great in cleaning Ring Packs and Oil Pressure Fed Areas.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Well, the pics that flash by on the arx site are not ones of clean ring packs.
That's a Good Point, I have heard many people say there valvetrains never looked as good as the pics that flash on the arx site.
The pics of the valvetrain in the 1st pic in this thread sure do not look like the pics that flash on the arx site.
Well, the pics that flash by on the arx site are not ones of clean ring packs.
That's a Good Point, I have heard many people say there valvetrains never looked as good as the pics that flash on the arx site.
The pics of the valvetrain in the 1st pic in this thread sure do not look like the pics that flash on the arx site.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Which makes me wonder. If pics of clean valvetrains are meaningless, why are they on that site?
I don't know of anyone who is going to tear down an engine to take pics of ring packs before/after.
Exactly. If we are talking about cleaning an engine, not just parts of it, a look under the valve cover if possible can tell a story about if cleaning was done or not. Seems to me if cleaning the top of an engine is so hard to do then cleaning the lower end should be easy.
Which makes me wonder. If pics of clean valvetrains are meaningless, why are they on that site?
I don't know of anyone who is going to tear down an engine to take pics of ring packs before/after.
Exactly. If we are talking about cleaning an engine, not just parts of it, a look under the valve cover if possible can tell a story about if cleaning was done or not. Seems to me if cleaning the top of an engine is so hard to do then cleaning the lower end should be easy.
Well, this is an old post but I will say this: Regardless how effective or ineffective Auto-RX is in cleaning an engine internally, judging from the pictures of that engine it was either very high mileage and or abused with too long of oil change intervals.
I can understand all of the stuff about how Auto-RX is not as effective in areas where there is just splash lubrication and all of that. It kind of makes me think that a non-solvent cleaning offered by the old Saturn dealerships might have made sense. They ran a special oil at high pressure and temperature through engines that were not running.
But that engine in the pictures is so sludgy that to me it just indicates an engine near the end of the road without being taken apart, cleaned, and rebuilt or re-manufactured.
To try to delay something like that as much as possible change the oil often enough and use a good quality oil of the correct viscosity. Synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum might be better than conventional motor oils.
Eventually an engine will wear out, of course.
I can understand all of the stuff about how Auto-RX is not as effective in areas where there is just splash lubrication and all of that. It kind of makes me think that a non-solvent cleaning offered by the old Saturn dealerships might have made sense. They ran a special oil at high pressure and temperature through engines that were not running.
But that engine in the pictures is so sludgy that to me it just indicates an engine near the end of the road without being taken apart, cleaned, and rebuilt or re-manufactured.
To try to delay something like that as much as possible change the oil often enough and use a good quality oil of the correct viscosity. Synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum might be better than conventional motor oils.
Eventually an engine will wear out, of course.
Last edited:
Formation of SludgeDo You Drive a Sludgemobile? Auto-Rx® will remove sludge while you drive your car.
Whether your engine is just a little dirty or all sludged-up, this is the only chemistry that cleans ring packs while you drive. Most people do not realize that 95% of engine problems are caused by contaminants such as carbon, sludge, dirt, and other abrasives. All these things, combined with engine oil and extreme heat, create uneven hot spots and extremely harmful byproducts. The result? A dramatic decrease in your engine performance.
Auto-Rx® (U.S. Patent #6,544,349) is a specially formulated, all-natural metal cleaner designed to thoroughly clean the internals of your engine. Many years of real-world testing have gone into this formulation.
Auto-Rx® extends the life of your engine, and here's how. Auto-Rx® uses your engine oil as a carrier because Auto-Rx® is thicker and requires another liquid for effective dispersal to the lubricated parts. Simply add Auto-Rx® to your oil and drive your vehicle normally! Auto-Rx® will work as you drive, liquefying the dirty deposits of sludge, carbon, and other debris in your engine, and preventing clogs in the flow of the engine oil.
Removing sludge from the engine with Auto-Rx® is as easy as washing your hands.
This is from the Arx Site which contains information if you have a SludgeMobile, I do not see any kind of disclaimer that arx cannot handle a seriously sludged engine, I see the total opposite, you have a sludged engine, arx will remove sludge while you drive your car.
I also do not think it is fair to say to customers when they have a problem with arx that they used the wrong dino oil, if Wal-Mart Super Tech is the preffered dino oil for whatever reason maybe it should be listed in the Application Instructions as the only dino oil to be used in the Rinse Phase.
Whenever anyone using arx reports a problem or they were not satisfied with the results, its not something the customer using arx did wrong, its that the product does have some limitations, but you will not see that when you read through the Application Instructions.
If arx was the perfect product in cleaning up our engines then the title of this Thread would be:
3 ARX cycles gave me a SPOTLESS ENGINE.
Whether your engine is just a little dirty or all sludged-up, this is the only chemistry that cleans ring packs while you drive. Most people do not realize that 95% of engine problems are caused by contaminants such as carbon, sludge, dirt, and other abrasives. All these things, combined with engine oil and extreme heat, create uneven hot spots and extremely harmful byproducts. The result? A dramatic decrease in your engine performance.
Auto-Rx® (U.S. Patent #6,544,349) is a specially formulated, all-natural metal cleaner designed to thoroughly clean the internals of your engine. Many years of real-world testing have gone into this formulation.
Auto-Rx® extends the life of your engine, and here's how. Auto-Rx® uses your engine oil as a carrier because Auto-Rx® is thicker and requires another liquid for effective dispersal to the lubricated parts. Simply add Auto-Rx® to your oil and drive your vehicle normally! Auto-Rx® will work as you drive, liquefying the dirty deposits of sludge, carbon, and other debris in your engine, and preventing clogs in the flow of the engine oil.
Removing sludge from the engine with Auto-Rx® is as easy as washing your hands.
This is from the Arx Site which contains information if you have a SludgeMobile, I do not see any kind of disclaimer that arx cannot handle a seriously sludged engine, I see the total opposite, you have a sludged engine, arx will remove sludge while you drive your car.
I also do not think it is fair to say to customers when they have a problem with arx that they used the wrong dino oil, if Wal-Mart Super Tech is the preffered dino oil for whatever reason maybe it should be listed in the Application Instructions as the only dino oil to be used in the Rinse Phase.
Whenever anyone using arx reports a problem or they were not satisfied with the results, its not something the customer using arx did wrong, its that the product does have some limitations, but you will not see that when you read through the Application Instructions.
If arx was the perfect product in cleaning up our engines then the title of this Thread would be:
3 ARX cycles gave me a SPOTLESS ENGINE.
Well, it may thoroughly clean the rings and keep oil lines clean but obviously it does not clean the entire engine. At least it did not do so here. Areas of splash lubrication were not cleaned thoroughly.
I still think for an engine to get this bad either it is a sludge monster engine (there have been engines like that) or it is high mileage and or abused. If somebody did a few 15,000 mile conventional oil changes that would probably do the trick (not to say that was the case here of course). Maybe I am extreme the opposite way but I prefer 3000 mile/3 month oil changes. That is what it says in my owner's manual. EVERYBODY drives in severe conditions except for maybe traveling salesmen if you read the owner's manual. It is severe driving if you drive in cold weather, short trips, tow a trailer, drive in dusty conditions, etc. About the only way to drive in a way to justify long oil changes would be to drive on the highways always, long trips, and in excellent weather conditions. Since there is no way for me to do this my driving is severe.
The conventional oil is cheap. And I am not throwing the old oil on the ground-I recycle it. So what is wrong with 3000 miles/3 months?
I will agree with you that Auto-RX does not seem to meet the advertising claims. At least the results here did not equal the advertising. Of course if the Auto-RX just kept the critical parts of the engine fairly clean and the oil lines clean it would help.
All of that built-up crud in low oil flow and oil splash areas would have to be cleaned by hand or with some sort of pressure equipment with the engine disassembled.
Just looking at that nasty stuff makes me want to continue with the old school 3000 miles/3 months.
I still think for an engine to get this bad either it is a sludge monster engine (there have been engines like that) or it is high mileage and or abused. If somebody did a few 15,000 mile conventional oil changes that would probably do the trick (not to say that was the case here of course). Maybe I am extreme the opposite way but I prefer 3000 mile/3 month oil changes. That is what it says in my owner's manual. EVERYBODY drives in severe conditions except for maybe traveling salesmen if you read the owner's manual. It is severe driving if you drive in cold weather, short trips, tow a trailer, drive in dusty conditions, etc. About the only way to drive in a way to justify long oil changes would be to drive on the highways always, long trips, and in excellent weather conditions. Since there is no way for me to do this my driving is severe.
The conventional oil is cheap. And I am not throwing the old oil on the ground-I recycle it. So what is wrong with 3000 miles/3 months?
I will agree with you that Auto-RX does not seem to meet the advertising claims. At least the results here did not equal the advertising. Of course if the Auto-RX just kept the critical parts of the engine fairly clean and the oil lines clean it would help.
All of that built-up crud in low oil flow and oil splash areas would have to be cleaned by hand or with some sort of pressure equipment with the engine disassembled.
Just looking at that nasty stuff makes me want to continue with the old school 3000 miles/3 months.
If there is any truth in advertising a person could probably not go wrong using either Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum oil, or Valvoline synthetic with REASONABLE oil change intervals. Don't be the guy trying to set a useless record for the longest mileage on an oil change.
With conventional motor oils I think 3000 mile/3 month oil changes are not excessive. Hey, how much does that 5 quart jug of Valvoline cost at Wal-Mart?
With synthetic oils how about 6000 mile/6 month changes? The oil costs about twice what conventional motor oil costs?
If people did stuff like this maybe an engine would look a lot better at 50,000 miles, 100,000 miles, and 150,000 miles.
Kind of what Johnny would maybe say.
And when cleaning was necessary maybe products like Auto-RX or MMO or Neutra or whatever would actually work. Kind of hard for any product to work when the engine looks like it has been buried in nasty sludge for 30 years.
With conventional motor oils I think 3000 mile/3 month oil changes are not excessive. Hey, how much does that 5 quart jug of Valvoline cost at Wal-Mart?
With synthetic oils how about 6000 mile/6 month changes? The oil costs about twice what conventional motor oil costs?
If people did stuff like this maybe an engine would look a lot better at 50,000 miles, 100,000 miles, and 150,000 miles.
Kind of what Johnny would maybe say.
And when cleaning was necessary maybe products like Auto-RX or MMO or Neutra or whatever would actually work. Kind of hard for any product to work when the engine looks like it has been buried in nasty sludge for 30 years.
Auto-Rx® Application Instructions
Please note: For months we have been extracting data from the fleet taxi test. We are now ready to offer new usage instructions for Auto-Rx® and your engine. With slight improvements to our applications, we are able to provide greater convenience and the best results from your Auto-Rx® experience.
I am just wondering how you can extract data from a Fleet Taxi Test when the majority of car owner's do not drive there cars like taxi's. Most people are not driving there vehicles for 6 to 8 hours a day, they usually drive so many miles to work, park the car for a number of hours and then drive home.
The other thought is, that these Taxi's are basically Ford Crown Vic's that are not known for Sludge Problems, they were known for some oil consumption problems, but I think this was from using a thicker oil like 10W-30 when a 5W-30 was specified, now these engines have been back speced to 5W-20.
Please note: For months we have been extracting data from the fleet taxi test. We are now ready to offer new usage instructions for Auto-Rx® and your engine. With slight improvements to our applications, we are able to provide greater convenience and the best results from your Auto-Rx® experience.
I am just wondering how you can extract data from a Fleet Taxi Test when the majority of car owner's do not drive there cars like taxi's. Most people are not driving there vehicles for 6 to 8 hours a day, they usually drive so many miles to work, park the car for a number of hours and then drive home.
The other thought is, that these Taxi's are basically Ford Crown Vic's that are not known for Sludge Problems, they were known for some oil consumption problems, but I think this was from using a thicker oil like 10W-30 when a 5W-30 was specified, now these engines have been back speced to 5W-20.
Ummm, since when did conclusive data have to match your conditions EXACTLY to extrapolate any useful info.
What temperature average is you car driven at?
What is the relative humidity?
How many minutes does your car idle before driving.
What brand of gas do you use.
What is the average rpm.
The variables are endless and you will never see a test match your conditions to the degree you are requesting.
I mean really? Taxis idle all day. The worst conditions ever. Can we not draw SOME useful info from it.
Why don't you buy a fleet of taxis comprised of every make and model available so you can be satisfied with the tests. I'm sure you could get a deal on the product.
Be reasonable.
What temperature average is you car driven at?
What is the relative humidity?
How many minutes does your car idle before driving.
What brand of gas do you use.
What is the average rpm.
The variables are endless and you will never see a test match your conditions to the degree you are requesting.
I mean really? Taxis idle all day. The worst conditions ever. Can we not draw SOME useful info from it.
Why don't you buy a fleet of taxis comprised of every make and model available so you can be satisfied with the tests. I'm sure you could get a deal on the product.
Be reasonable.
Can Auto-Rx® save my engine from sludge?
Most likely, yes. Auto-Rx® is a relatively slow, methodical cleaner that dissolves sludge as you drive....that is, if the oiling system is not plugged up and the oil pump pickup screen is still open for oil flow. Auto-Rx® can work only if oil is freely flowing.
Auto-Rx® is a slow, methodical cleaner. It first dissolves the contaminants in the highest heat and oil flow areas of the motor, otherwise known as the working guts of the motor. The less-important surface area within the lubrication system will clean up last, likely in the second application. After the motor is clean, the use of a smaller amount of Auto-Rx®, called the Extended Engine Performance dose, should be used with each oil change to keep your motor clean.
The above statement is from the arx site, so if arx is a slow methodical cleaner what happens if your engine is continuosly building up junk faster than arx can clean it.
Obviously the highest heat and oil flow areas are not going to be in the cylinder heads, and since most cylinder heads are made out of ALUMINUM which sheds heat 5 times faster than cast iron we can see why arx has a problem cleaning up the cylinder head area. It seems arx works in the highest heat area which is probably in the rings, since arx needs flow and pressure and we know that the top end where the cylinder heads are splash fed so we can see why arx has a problem in this area.
The OP did 3 arx applications, and arx is saying that the less important surface area will likely clean in the 2nd Application, it certainly did not happen here. Also the OP's pics back up what I have been saying about Arx & Aluminum Engines.
Most likely, yes. Auto-Rx® is a relatively slow, methodical cleaner that dissolves sludge as you drive....that is, if the oiling system is not plugged up and the oil pump pickup screen is still open for oil flow. Auto-Rx® can work only if oil is freely flowing.
Auto-Rx® is a slow, methodical cleaner. It first dissolves the contaminants in the highest heat and oil flow areas of the motor, otherwise known as the working guts of the motor. The less-important surface area within the lubrication system will clean up last, likely in the second application. After the motor is clean, the use of a smaller amount of Auto-Rx®, called the Extended Engine Performance dose, should be used with each oil change to keep your motor clean.
The above statement is from the arx site, so if arx is a slow methodical cleaner what happens if your engine is continuosly building up junk faster than arx can clean it.
Obviously the highest heat and oil flow areas are not going to be in the cylinder heads, and since most cylinder heads are made out of ALUMINUM which sheds heat 5 times faster than cast iron we can see why arx has a problem cleaning up the cylinder head area. It seems arx works in the highest heat area which is probably in the rings, since arx needs flow and pressure and we know that the top end where the cylinder heads are splash fed so we can see why arx has a problem in this area.
The OP did 3 arx applications, and arx is saying that the less important surface area will likely clean in the 2nd Application, it certainly did not happen here. Also the OP's pics back up what I have been saying about Arx & Aluminum Engines.
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