3 ARX cycles, didn't do much, bummer..

[unDummy]

Last time I checked, Castrol GTX and Havoline were mineral oils. And, it seems that he knew the directions and followed them THREE times.

How many bottles do you plan on soaking the guy using 'follow directions' as an excuse for it not working?

The 'money back guarantee' should be exerecised here. Frank should send him a refund!

 

[MKR]

Sure would be nice to know which oil to use as a rinse, the brand seems to change from week to week

 

[Pablo]

Looks to me like he DID follow the instructions!

It seems like the product is not particularly robust is this arena - what I mean is: The instructions need to be followed precisely, but they are not that precisely written. IF only certain oils can be used for the cleaning phase and if only certain oils can be used for the rinse phase - then list those oils!

I am not an AutoRx hater. I have used it and recommend it ALL the time. (Ask folks who have PM'd and emailed me). I think the product works for the most part. But the line is drawn somewhere - either that or it certainly just doesn't ALWAYS work.

Looks to me there just isn't much splash oil flying around upstairs in that engine. I would scoop/wipe as much of the upper crust as possible out, make sure the oil ports are open and start over again.

As for Frank - well he should either give you your money back, or give you three more bottle free.

 

[va3ux]

MDOCOD - regarding the snip from below, I found the post I was referring to. Here's the link :

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...=129#Post300000

It was fun to read this again. Bear in mind that the deposits he had in his engine are likely not what you are dealing with. But it still supports the "theory".

Phil

Quote:

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pulled the valve covers to inspect, he saw practically no difference. Similar to your experience so far.
I think roughly a year later he pulled the valve covers to replace the cover gaskets because they were leaking and he discovered that the engine had cleaned up enormously during the year since the 2 ARX treatments.-va3ux

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this is perhaps the neatest thing I have read yet- this might make since actually.. maybe for some engines, the "rinse" phase gets stretched way out for various reasons. Needing MANY oil changes and many thousands of miles to finish. Seems logical, possible, something to consider.

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[Lazerred1]

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IF only certain oils can be used for the cleaning phase and if only certain oils can be used for the rinse phase - then list those oils!

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I totally agree with this. I have 2 vehicles now in the cleaning phase and had no idea only certain oils, other than non-synthetic, were supposed to be used. This would certainly have been good info to have.

 

[va3ux]

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IF only certain oils can be used for the cleaning phase and if only certain oils can be used for the rinse phase - then list those oils!

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I totally agree with this. I have 2 vehicles now in the cleaning phase and had no idea only certain oils, other than non-synthetic, were supposed to be used. This would certainly have been good info to have.

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Based on observation of the posts here about oil recommendations for ARX, it *appears* that at least some of these recommendations are based on "reports from the field", rather than rigorous scientific testing in a lab.

I can see where it maybe getting harder to get the expected cleaning results with current oils : when ARX came out a few years ago, there were still plenty of Grp I oils around, and I think those oils had better solvency for hydrocarbon deposits than the prevailing base oils being used to today. So back in the beginning when people were told to just use a cheap dino oil, they may have been getting a low grade oil that actually helped the deposit removal process. Fast forward to 2007, the cheap dino is now grpII or even grpII+ ; different chemical charactersitics than 5 years ago, different results.

 

[Frank]

Auto-Rx is not in the oil business however we have done quie a few tests and i think a lot of "Best Oil's" comes from this board. I have said that the last batch of test data (located on www.auto-rx.com click on tests using search engine on home page) show that we don't care what oil you use for cleaning phase. We do care what oil you use for rinse phase and we don't want you using a synthetic. Users test experoence show Pennsoil Platinum Standard Oil-Havoline-WalMart Super tech all good rinse oil's.If you want to ask about another oil e-mail me.

It's not getting harder to get good cleaning results, it is getting harder to get people to read the application.

 

[bruce381]

I have no dog in this fight but it seems to me that ALL PCMO's have changed basestocks to GPII and GPIII that even a recomended list will be wrong since no one has the info to say what base stock is in what oil at what time. SO it seems that perhaps a more accurate recomendation or a improvement to the product to take this into account. What will happen as SM oil and GF-5 become the norm GOI base stocks will be gone than what??
bruce

 

[Steelhead]

Frank,
do you or don't you have a money back guarentee?
the user followed the products directions but it failed to work as advertised after 3 times

he had success in the Rodeo using the same oils and steps

quote mdocod "5w30 havoline for the 3rd clean, and 10W30 havoline for the 3rd rinse"


undummy

Quote:

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Last time I checked, Castrol GTX and Havoline were mineral oils. And, it seems that he knew the directions and followed them THREE times.

How many bottles do you plan on soaking the guy using 'follow directions' as an excuse for it not working?

The 'money back guarantee' should be exerecised here. Frank should send him a refund!

---

 

[bruce381]

"""It's not getting harder to get good cleaning results, it is getting harder to get people to read the application.""

Id say he did that 3 times your website says use a dino oil he did 3 times.
bruce

 

[Frank]

bruce the photos os this engine before and after Auto-Rx show definite improvment.What is being taken out of context is that i said to rinse this engine again and suggested using WalMart Supertech to do so.

The resident posters who say only negative things have no idea or help to offer.If the Suzuki Swift can't have another rinse for what ever reason than the owner has got all the results from Auto-Rx this engine can give. It is a extremely sludged up engine almost looks like it came out of an ad. Auto-Rx works if you work it. Rinsing is a key element for sucess.

 

[sprintman]

Nowhere does RX say it will clean splash fed areas. Where are people getting this misinformation?

 

[m2200b]

I'd pull the oil pan and clean it and the pump filter cage.
Pulling the head and other more expensive physical cleaning might not make sense to you but I'd clean the pan before I put your list of repairs to suspension and other parts on as you don't want invest in those parts if you're going to have blocked oil flow.

 

[Jim 5]

If I had bothered to pull off the valve cover, I would have gotten in there with a shop vac and sucked as much of that sludge off the head as possible.

In grade school we learned about saturation by mixing sugar in water until the water reached a point where the sugar wouldn't dissolve anymore and just settled to the bottom. That's when the water was saturated with sugar. (Am I remembering this experiment correctly? It was probably 30 years ago).

Maybe the same thing is happening with the rinse oil here. Maybe there's only so much crud that can be suspenspended in the rinse oil and this explains the example someone else posted of a large cleanup under the valve cover 3 oil changes after the final rinse.

Anyhow, this example is a tall order even for ARX. I would guess this engine's problems are 10x a reasonable amount of sludge for ARX to clean up.

 

[SargeGTO]

I'd sure like to see the ring packs and rod bearings before and after. Top end just gets some splashing around loving....I bet the ring packs and rod bearings would change some folks mind on what is working and what isn't.

 

[Alowishus]

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I just can't help but think that if he had posted those pics and said "I've done three flushes with ABC or XYZ engine cleaner/flush...what do you think?", that not too many people would say "Good results!" or "Buy some more and keep using it!"

Jeff

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Amen.

Quote:

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Last time I checked, Castrol GTX and Havoline were mineral oils. And, it seems that he knew the directions and followed them THREE times.

How many bottles do you plan on soaking the guy using 'follow directions' as an excuse for it not working?

The 'money back guarantee' should be exerecised here. Frank should send him a refund!

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And Amen. The proof is in the pudding and it is plainly obvious to me that NO change occured.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Quote:

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I'd sure like to see the ring packs and rod bearings before and after. Top end just gets some splashing around loving....I bet the ring packs and rod bearings would change some folks mind on what is working and what isn't.

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I don't have any horror story engines with ugly pull the valve cover shots.

What suprised me about ARX is that 'clean' engines with good maintenance and premium synthetic oil ran better after I ARX'ed them.

The improvement must be in the ring packs getter cleaned and the rings sealing better. And isn't this what matters?

If I had the Swift with sludge like that and wanted to test what ARX can do... I'd run a compression or leak down test, and measure performance like dyno specs, acceleration, and mpg ...before and after.

The sludge in the photos is probably better cleaned off manually.

Why not physically clean the parts of the engine than can be reached easily .... like the top end and the oil pan and bottom areas of the block? If it wipes of with a paper towel, why not wipe it off, or scrub it off with a toothbrush?

Then I'd let the ARX clean the important parts that can't be reached...like the ring pack.

Maybe ARX will clean the top end sludge with enough rinsing... but I really don't care .

ARX cleans the parts that matter.

If that Swift motor can be saved , I bet the proper use of ARX will save it.

 

[mdocod]

I should also mention, that as of now, the engine has been driven about another ~5500 miles since the last rinse was completed. It's been divided up into about 4 short oil changes, as I recall the first change was a mix of mostly havoline 10w30 and ST 5w30, with a dash of 20W50, (was just trying to use up stuff laying around that's not in large quantities). The one after that was some delo400 and havoline 5w30. the one after that was delo400, with a qt of MMO. and right now it's got some ATF, delo400, and a dash of seafoam...

After 2 more short changes, (that would have been after about 3000 miles after the last rinse) I still wasn't seeing any changes, so started trying other stuff.


More mention of people worried that there isn't any flow up top...
I really need to get a video camera back from my buddy and upload a video so you can all see that, it is actually flowing very well, looking down through the fill hole there is a plentiful flow of oil dousing the cam and followers, with lots getting thrown about. This is at idle, I can only imagine how much oil is getting sloshed around when it speeds up.

 

[mdocod]

Ok- I just went ahead and ordered 2 more bottles of ARX.. I want to give it another go. 2 bottles is enough for 3 more treatments, for about the price of a tank of gas in my SUV, so I think it's worth another shot...

I'm going to go 5W30 dino ST all the way through. I'll wait a few thousand miles before I get started, going to run 1-2 short intervals on plain ST to make sure there isn't any significant amount of remaining cleaners or anything in there.

I've got a solid question for ya Frank.
Assume for a minute that I did follow the instructions. (you certainly don't have to believe that I did, you weren't here, you have no proof and I have no way to prove it besides my word)...
You are, without a doubt, the most knowledgeable person on the way ARX works, you invented it. So, with that in mind. Are there any conditions, that might cause it not to work even when the directions are followed.
When answering the question, assume the following:
1. the PCV system has been tested, works flawlessly, but has received fresh PCV valves and cleaning "just to make sure."
2. The thermostat is working correctly, the engine is operating good and hot for 90% of it's driving during ARX cycles.
3. Oil flow to dirty areas has been confirmed, flow is good.

things to consider:
1. the engine and sludge within were exposed to synthetic oil before the ARX cycles were started.
2. the sludge is not all hardened on deposits, most of it feels like bearing grease with grime in it.
3. filters were cut open, very little deposits were found, nothing like pictures seen in other testimonials.

At all times, please keep in mind, that I am not trying to come across as "attacking" you or ARX in any way. I just want to learn and share. I'd like to see it work because everything I have read suggests that it should.

 

[BrianWC]

So you didn't get deposits in the filter, either? Really?