I have been undercoating it for several years now with Fluid Film. I missed this year as time got away from me. I did liberally coat the problem areas in front of the rear wheels with a new product I saw from Stabil called rust stopper. I'm getting blisters on both sides, so I will need to fix it in the spring for sure. Hopeful for another 3 - 5 years if I can. I don't want it looking like crap.
3.6 pentastar as bad as it seems ???
- Thread starter Gawardawg
- Start date
You would hope… it’s not a Ford so there's that.
You’re right, lots of engines made, I can’t knock it for that. It’s just this one thing. Low risk (of failure) times high cost (or high downtime) -> unjustifiable risk. Low risk times low cost -> ok risk. [And of course, high risk times high cost is a big nope.] It's why everyone runs away from turbos and CVT's, rational or not. Sword of Damocles and all.
Stellantis actually released a TSB, detailing the problem with the intake cams and followers for the PUG 3.6. Problems were blamed on "manufacturing problems" meaning we squeezed the suppliers too tight or cut corners on our own processes. No thanks to Carlos Tavares who should have been given the boot long ago.
Now does that mean current production is OK, I don't know!
Now does that mean current production is OK, I don't know!
If you catch the rockers early, the cams are usually good. It's the people that keep on driving while it ticks, that end up changing everything.
For anyone that owns one of these and changes the oil themselves, check the filter media for metal bits. That's the easiest way to catch the rocker failure and you will be able to spot it before the ticking even happens.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
It seems all three have been caught with roller problems: Ford with the 7.3L and its lifters, the GM AFM lifters, which is a larger-scope problem, since it's not always just the roller, and the HEMI lifters as well as the roller followers on the Pentastar.
Honda has also had problems with camshaft failures, going back almost 20 years now.
So, I wouldn't be quick to blame one OEM for an issue that appears to be affecting several. Not sure who makes Honda camshafts, but I know it was Federal Mogul that used to make the roller lifters for Ford back in the 80's and 90's and those things were invincible. My understanding is that Stellantis went as far as changing the supplier for the HEMI lifters, which are now made in Germany. Not sure about GM or Ford.
For some reason, a significant number of people love to crap on Chrysler/Stellantis. I don’t really see any more failures with them than any other OEMs.
Cars are increasingly more complex, OEMs outsource almost all the production parts and squeeze the vendors to the last penny. Plus they are trying to get every last MPG out of every engine family. No wonder new vehicles are having issues.
Good to know, thanks.
Obligatory pic of my failing Honda camshaft. Go figure, the roller looks just fine... this was shedding metal flakes into the oil filter, but not sure for how long, as I forget if I was slicing all filters open (certainly not the ones before I got this CRV).
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
You can see the heat treatment flaking off the roller, was it replaced?
Not yet. I'm kinda waiting until I can get a spare vehicle, in case a cam swap takes too long--I asked a local garage about this, and they wanted to just swap the head, and I thought that was going to get expensive and was overkill. At some point I should start shopping for parts, but I still think this job is above my paygrade.
One of the big advantages of the cartridge filters in the Pentastar. Easy to see if there are flakes.
You put the new part in, you take the old part out, you do the hokie pokie and you turn yourself about. Every time you do a job above your pay grade, you expand your pay grade. Dress for the job you want.
I do understand the a spare vehicle is nice to have when tearing another one apart.
Yeah I know... it's just daunting. The moment I brick it in the garage, now I've got a lawn ornament. Plus it always takes longer than anticipated. Plus if I did the work, and then a week later something else takes out the vehicle... then I feel like the idiot for making a bad decision.You put the new part in, you take the old part out, you do the hokie pokie and you turn yourself about. Every time you do a job above your pay grade, you expand your pay grade. Dress for the job you want.
I do understand the a spare vehicle is nice to have when tearing another one apart.
Your new years resolution should be to improve your optimism!
I would watch some youtubes and see if it can be done without removing the timing chain, unless you want to tackle that as well.
Basically, you mark the chain, the cam sprockets and the phasers. Then you have to lock one cam sprocket to the chain, so that it can keep the current timing, remove the tension from the chain and that should give you enough wiggle room to remove the other camshaft.
Edit:
Found one for the VCT actuator replacement, but he does basically what I described above.
Yes, the fun of not having a spare vehicle ...You put the new part in, you take the old part out, you do the hokie pokie and you turn yourself about. Every time you do a job above your pay grade, you expand your pay grade. Dress for the job you want.
I do understand the a spare vehicle is nice to have when tearing another one apart.
A friend told me of many years ago pulling the head off his Pontiac Sunfire, and taking it (the head) on a bus to a machine shop.
Good thing it wasn't a Slant Six.
And way back, I carried the heads off my old 307 Chevy to a machine shop perhaps half a mile away. (One at a time - I wasn't Superman.)
So much truth in that.
I've seen a couple of vids. If I use a bungee cord I might be able to keep pressure on the chain and not have to remove the timing cover. Still have to pull the tensioner. But if anything slips the job gets bigger, and there just isn't much space in there.
My missing timing guide shows up in the mail today so I'm hoping to take a look again today.
https://dot.report/bulletins/11018482
this is the TSB, that details the cam problems with the PUG Pentastar, it appears to only affect the intake cam and valve "slider", affects all PUGs up to certain production dates in 2024.
The other thing that has been noted by a few on line you tube mechanic channels is this, there are 2 galley plugs on the front of each cylinder head, these can loosen or even fall out and that can cause low oil pressure to the cams on that head. This I think could affect any Pentastar so if you have the valve covers off for any repair, this always should be checked, it takes some finagling to get a wrench in there, but there are some vids out there that show which kind of wrenches will work for this.
this is the TSB, that details the cam problems with the PUG Pentastar, it appears to only affect the intake cam and valve "slider", affects all PUGs up to certain production dates in 2024.
The other thing that has been noted by a few on line you tube mechanic channels is this, there are 2 galley plugs on the front of each cylinder head, these can loosen or even fall out and that can cause low oil pressure to the cams on that head. This I think could affect any Pentastar so if you have the valve covers off for any repair, this always should be checked, it takes some finagling to get a wrench in there, but there are some vids out there that show which kind of wrenches will work for this.
Isn't the 3.6L engine universally bad across all manufacturers, just like the 1.5L?
Yes, it's horrible. Very hard to describe just how bad it is. Go buy a GM 6.2, preferably from the 2023-2024 time frame. I think it will suit you very well.
Hey, the old Mazda 1.5, as used in the early-'80s GLC, was absolutely great - very reliable, and very easy on fuel.
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