3.6 pentastar as bad as it seems ???

[Kernel Potter]

Getting a Chrysler product past 140k can be a challenge.

It’s not always the engine that is the problem.

The 2006 3.3 Caravan that was replaced by the '17 is owned by a friend. It has 175,000 miles currently. It hadn't been a challenge at all. And no expensive timing belt to do maintenance on either. The guy across the street has a new Tundra hybrid. He has a $60K+ challenge on his hands

 

[headofthebored]

BIL bought a 2016 Challenger with a bad valve train tick for cheap and was planning on a new engine. On a gamble we took the valve covers off, did some hunting and found the cams all looked OK. We ended up changing one rockerarm that had bad needle bearings. Read something about the oil galleys that feed the rockers having plugs (two bolts) at the front of the heads, and apparently they loosen for some reason or maybe just don't get tightened at the factory, and sure enough 3 were fairly loose and the one corresponding to the bad rocker not even close to tight so at least some of that oil was just dumping back to the pan. Tightened those up with an open end wrench, which is about all you can get in there with the cams still in, and buttoned it all back together. Boom. Tick was gone. Still sounds good after 2 years now.

 

[LouC]

Our Chrysler/Jeeps:
1998 Grand Cherokee 4.0, bought new, 183,000 miles, no engine issues ever.
2007 Grand Cherokee 5.7, bought 2 years old, 134,000 miles, same
2019 Compass 2.4, bought 3 years old, now at 114,000 miles only repair was stop/start battery. Nothing else but oil changes and 2 sets of tires!
Vis a Vis the 3.6 there's good and bad;
good: that oil filter housing and o rings were improved a few years back so it's not the problem it once was
bad: after the PUG upgrade, there were more problems with the intake cams wearing (they added VVL to VVT) so much so they released a TSB on that last summer for all PUGs up to 2025 model year
loose oil galley plugs, as noted above cause low oil pressure/flow to the cams and cam phasers
PUG also raised compression ratio and there are a fair # of blown head gasket complaints
That's what I have heard, the one in our '17 Wrangler is a pre-PUG version.
That said the one I trust the most is the 1998 4.0 six, nothing like a straight six, spark plug change, easy job, water pump/radiator, easy job, starter, roll under and you're done in a half hr. These jobs on the 2007 WK 5.7 either take a long time (spark plugs) or are a real horror show (starter, you remove the front driveshaft, radiator, is a royal pain in the butt, you have to disconnect the hydraulic cooling fan, etc.
I'll take a 96-98 ZJ or 96-98 XJ ANYDAY over what they make today, if I can find another nice rust free one!
A 4.0 six Jeep with a Selectrac transfer case is just what I like. Simple, repairable, not exciting, no cool gadgets, just a basic 4x4 that even Toyota can't make anymore.

 

[supton]

bad: after the PUG upgrade, there were more problems with the intake cams wearing (they added VVL to VVT) so much so they released a TSB on that last summer for all PUGs up to 2025 model year

Are the prior 3.6's less prone to cam/follower problems? I'm not familiar with the Pentastar history but it looks like either 2016 or 2020 this upgrade occurred.

 

[lovcom]

Pentastar anything is not a good buy. These lack good reputations for quality, and reliability. Chrysler or whatever they're called these days cut corners, and their reputation proves this out.

 

[LouC]

Are the prior 3.6's less prone to cam/follower problems? I'm not familiar with the Pentastar history but it looks like either 2016 or 2020 this upgrade occurred.

The pre-PUG ones are prone to bad rocker arm needle bearings, that cause a ticking noise, if not repaired promptly it will wear the cams. The PUG upgrade happened around 2017 but not all vehicles that used the Pentastar got it at that time.
I think their problem is pushing efficiency as far as they can but cutting corners on parts quality and assembly care. The fact that 4 oil galley plugs can loosen and cause cam failure is just un-acceptable! Loctite, guys!

 

[IndyFan]

Pentastar anything is not a good buy. These lack good reputations for quality, and reliability. Chrysler or whatever they're called these days cut corners, and their reputation proves this out.

That is BS.

 

[otis24]

Bought a 2016 Dodge Grand Caravan with the 3.6 PS. It was a year old and had about 28k on the odometer. When I purchased it, the reviews on that engine were good. With under 200k on it, started getting the lifter tick. Went away briefly after being treated with Seafoam but returned in pretty short order. I got 6 years and about 200k miles out of it so I guess you could say I got my money’s worth. I was hoping to get another 100k out of it. It received regular maintenance. I probably wouldn’t buy another one. Traded it on a 2016 Honda Odyssey with 86k miles.

 

[GW.]

Love my 3.6 ZF8 combo!

I believe I already mentioned this earlier but the Pentastar is one of the last naturally aspirated non-DI engines left. They’re easy on oil and don’t consume oil. They do get a bad rap but failure numbers are very low considering the number of these engines produced.

 

[TnT_M]

That is BS.

Agree, but like most things the "bad news" is all people talk about. Given the number of 3.6L engines they have made the failure rate is not as bad as the gossip makes it.

We have 115K on our 2014 and still running. My fear is the powertrain will way out last the body.

 

[svtrit]

Agree, but like most things the "bad news" is all people talk about. Given the number of 3.6L engines they have made the failure rate is not as bad as the gossip makes it.

We have 115K on our 2014 and still running. My fear is the powertrain will way out last the body.

Fluid Film is absolutely necessary on that van. I filled my body cavity and did pretty well. When I bought our 2014 the Passenger dog leg had tiny bubbles started and it took them 5 years to open. The driver side never popped bubbles, which I attribute to filling with Fluid Film.

You do need to poke holes in the foam in the dogleg to get in deep, however. Mine had a rubber plug that made that job easier.

It's gone because of the 3.6, but it was either a burnt valve or cylinder 2 was truely dead, not a cam issue.

 

[OVERKILL]

That is BS.

That is lovcom. Low quality rage bait is his SOP.

 

[Ronsant]

Agree, but like most things the "bad news" is all people talk about. Given the number of 3.6L engines they have made the failure rate is not as bad as the gossip makes it.

We have 115K on our 2014 and still running. My fear is the powertrain will way out last the body.

Agree. Those engines went into everything and anything. Almost every vehicle JCDR sold in USA. So failure rate as a percentage is pretty low. For every camshaft eaten, there are a hundred 3.6 with 200K + going strong.

 

[Number_35]

The 2006 3.3 Caravan that was replaced by the '17 is owned by a friend. It has 175,000 miles currently. It hadn't been a challenge at all. And no expensive timing belt to do maintenance on either. The guy across the street has a new Tundra hybrid. He has a $60K+ challenge on his hands

I'm running a 2007 Grand Caravan with the old-school 3.3. The engine and transmission are still good at 280,000 km (174,000 miles).

I suspect the body will rust out before the drivetrain fails.

 

[supton]

The Pentastar worries me; the oil cooler failures seem more annoying than a real problem--you can get parts last I knew. But can you get camshafts and/or followers? I thought those exhaust cams were on backorder? That's the thing, a "common" repair that has parts on the shelf is annoying but a short term annoyance. A repair that takes time to do? that's a disaster if you don't have spare vehicles.

 

[IndyFan]

The Pentastar worries me; the oil cooler failures seem more annoying than a real problem--you can get parts last I knew. But can you get camshafts and/or followers? I thought those exhaust cams were on backorder? That's the thing, a "common" repair that has parts on the shelf is annoying but a short term annoyance. A repair that takes time to do? that's a disaster if you don't have spare vehicles.

How's the supply chain for any other engine these days?

 

[supton]

How's the supply chain for any other engine these days?

Dunno. How many others eat cams and/or followers? Or other internal parts? Stuck rings are annoying, but can live long lives.

Ok, outside of GM and Dodges that is. Too many lifter failures on those V8's.

You're probably right though, finding internal parts is probably problematic for all makes & models. That's why it makes me worried. Other brands, just swap the engine if there is any sort of problem, that seems overkill for a bad camshaft, but I guess that could be done. And given the sales of the Pentastar, there should be plenty of good cores out there (from wrecks).

 

[SC Maintenance]

The Pentastar worries me; the oil cooler failures seem more annoying than a real problem--you can get parts last I knew. But can you get camshafts and/or followers? I thought those exhaust cams were on backorder? That's the thing, a "common" repair that has parts on the shelf is annoying but a short term annoyance. A repair that takes time to do? that's a disaster if you don't have spare vehicles.

"Part on national back order" seems to be the new national pastime.

I wouldn't condemn an engine over it. Hopefully supply gets fixed soon. I presume everyone with the tik is swapping out these parts for the new design. Do you know if its the same rocker on all generations - or did they change again with PUG?

 

[supton]

I wouldn't condemn an engine over it. Hopefully supply gets fixed soon.

But that’s the thing. If there is a risk of failure, and I am only shopping well worn cars, isn’t this a valid reason to avoid, at least until the supply issues are fixed?

 

[SC Maintenance]

But that’s the thing. If there is a risk of failure, and I am only shopping well worn cars, isn’t this a valid reason to avoid, at least until the supply issues are fixed?

For old worn out junk you could use Melling Rocker arms if you could not wait. There pretty much the same. If its just a mild tick my understanding is the cams are usually OK. However there are much greater pentastar experts here than I.

For used I think I would rather have a Pentastar that they have literally made 10 million of including Wranglers so long term support is pretty much guaranteed, rather than some obscure thing.

Here is a thread. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...tar-after-finding-metal-in-oil-filter.399887/