2nd Fram Ultra in a row with holes in the crimp

[Astro14]

Report the thread to the Administrator.

Except that it is NOT a bash.

He showed us a picture of what he claimed. He linked a thread that showed the same defect in another filter.

No emotion. No sensationalism. No stereotyping. No generalizations.

 

[Astro14]

I’m definitely not disputing Wayne’s evidence, nor his choice to switch manufacturers. But 2 is hardly a “great number”. Certainly doesn’t hurt to be cautious, but remember even “world class” manufacturing has somewhere around 3.4 defects per million opportunities.

In my mind, this kind of showcases the brilliance of the HPL fleet method of 5k filter changes on 15 or 20k OCIs. Even if you had one of those filters be defective, the chance of two in a row being defective as well becomes quite astronomical, and therefore overall risk to the engine falls when compared to a single 20k rated filter for the entire OCI.

But yes, it’s not good press for Fram, and now with the board kicking into high alert, we may see some more failures. Time will tell

Except the OP has, in fact, had two in a row. Months apart in manufacturing date. Same plant.

So, “astronomical” just became, what, as a result, “likely”, perhaps?

 

[wwillson]

I just cut the last new Fram Ultra I had on the shelf and it has the identical problem. This is now the third Fram Ultra I've found with holes in the crimp.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

All my cut aparts I have never taken that crimped metal off. Are there grooves in the metal that would punch those holes like "teeth" to hold it?

How far does the metal go down that pleat when crimped?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I just cut the last new Fram Ultra I had on the shelf and it has the identical problem:

View attachment 188220

Was this the way the filter separated, or was there the metal overlay over it as well?

3 in a row is enough to indicate a trend, sadly.

 

[wwillson]

Did the assembled seam unfold and come apart easily?

Yes

Was there any glue at all holding it together, or was it just "pressed" together without any glue?

There is no glue holding the pleats together. The pleats that are crimped are no different than the uncrimped pleats anywhere else on the element.

 

[wwillson]

All my cut aparts I have never taken that crimped metal off. Are there grooves in the metal that would punch those holes like "teeth" to hold it?

There is no metal crimp on these filters. Everything you see it exactly how it looks when you buy it new.

 

[wwillson]

Was this the way the filter separated, or was there the metal overlay over it as well?

There is no metal crimp on these filters, the way you see it in the picture is exactly how it is in the uncut filter.

 

[wwillson]

Here we go again... Another FRAM bash......

Not a bash, just facts.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

There is no metal crimp on these filters, the way you see it in the picture is exactly how it is in the uncut filter.

More than disappointing. I’ll have to go through the XGs on my shelf when I get home and see if any aren’t wire backed. I’ll cut those open to see if it’s the same as yours.

 

[Shel_B]

This is a Fram Ultra made in Brazil, also from the previous thread.

There is no indication that the USA manufactured filters have this issue.

So, when you buy a Fram filter, how can you tell where it's been made? It may be an even bigger concern when buying online as the filter and packaging can't be inspected.

 

[wwillson]

The area of the crimp is not supposed to flow oil, well because it's folded over on itself.

No, the crimped pleat is just like any other pleat in the filter. All I did was cut the element opposite the crimp and pull the element taut.

In the operation of the filter in order for anything to flow through the holes, these would have to exist on each side of the crimp and be perfectly lined up. So when you split the crimped area, and it shows holes, you are opening up something that was closed when installed in the filter?

You can see light coming directly through the crimp, if light will flow through, so will unfiltered oil. The holes in the crimp are no different than a hole in a pleat anywhere else in the element. Take a paper punch and punch a hole in the filter, it's a hole whether it's on the crimp or on any other pleat.

Or did you find the crimped area split open by itself when the filter was opened up?

No, this is the crimp is not somehow sealed. What you see is exactly how it was in the uncut filter.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

No, the crimped pleat is just like any other pleat in the filter. All I did was cut the element opposite the crimp and pull the element taut.


You can see light coming directly through the crimp, if light will flow through, so will unfiltered oil. The holes in the crimp are no different than a hole in a pleat anywhere else in the element. Take a paper punch and punch a hole in the filter, it's a hole whether it's on the crimp or on any other pleat.


No, this is the crimp is not somehow sealed. What you see is exactly how it was in the uncut filter.

Bet those filters wouldn’t have done 99%@20u on Ascent’s test bench…

 

[spasm3]

Wow! Thats concerning, i'm running the ultra/endurance with HPL now. I may go with amsoil EA filters next change.

 

[wwillson]

To make the construction of the filter more clear.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There is no glue holding the pleats together. The pleats that are crimped are no different than the uncrimped pleats anywhere else on the element.

Strange ... maybe there should be glue, and it wasn't applied for some reason (manufacturing error)? If you ever hear back from Fram on this, let us know what they say.

 

[twX]

I took a stab at estimating how much oil might actually flow through these holes, using an online pressure drop calculator. I assumed 160 round holes 0.3 mm in diameter, with a 3 psi pressure drop across the filter element at a flow rate of 30 L/min with 10 cP oil. The oil flow through each hole is 0.037 L/min, or 6.0 L/min through all the holes, which is 20% of the total oil flow. Efficiency of the filter for large particle sizes would drop from 99% to 80%.

Obviously this model isn't going to be too accurate, but I think it shows that the unfiltered oil flow could be significant.

 

[wwillson]

The oil flow through each hole is 0.037 L/min, or 6.0 L/min through all the holes, which is 20% of the total oil flow.

Which makes the filter a permanent by-pass filter. That's not a great scenario.

 

[4WD]

Because of the lack of reports of defective Champion filters. They might not have the best Beta ratios, but they at least don't seem to be defective in any great number.

Watched the cut open on a ST MP10575 (Champ) and it was very impressive - made in USA and a real bargain …

 

[Rand]

It was hard to know if this was even an issue until later posts.

I also was picturing this under a metal crimp. like the old school ultras.

Thats not good at all....

Glad mine are all still wire backed media.