21 yrs & 520,000km's - engine untouched

[Gary Allan]

Well, there's some conceptual validity to what he asserts. It doesn't play out that way for various not pondered realities.


That said, there were reliable 80's cars and a buttload of failed experiments for GM.

This was one of the non-experiments ..it retained traditional reliability.

 

[dailydriver]

Some people just REALLY need to justify their foreign parent company sourced purchases.

I guess they feel it helps to sound all intellectual and 'Manhattan elitist' while pleading said justification.

Even though I know some of those same elitists who would agree with me, feel that the so-called "free trade, global economy" is the death knell for the middle class (maybe even everyone?) in OUR country, and would MORE than welcome at least a little bit of that "dirty word", i.e.; protectionism right about now.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
The only difference is that there is a ocean between New York and Germany while there is a mountain range between New York and Ohio. Both are foreign cars as far as I am concerned and there is no reason for anyone in New York to think otherwise.


The difference is that the company located in Ohio pays taxes to the same federal government that you pay taxes to, and as a result you share, albeit indirectly, in the profits of that business. In addition, this country is united politically, financially, economically, and culturally.

If you think that Ohio is a foreign nation, there's no real reasoning with you.


There is no way that I benefit from the fact that any company pays taxes. I believe President Reagan once described corporate taxes as an attempt to have companies collect taxes for the federal government. As far as the mathematics of the situation are concerned, this describes the situation perfectly, as the taxes levied against them translate into hidden sales and export taxes. It is impossible for anything else to be the case.

Sales taxes hurt less wealthy individuals at the expense of those more wealthy and export taxes ruin foreign competitiveness and impact sales overseas, pushing companies to make sacrifices to remain competitive, regardless of how good they can be in terms of making their products. These sacrifices can involve jobs, salaries, quality and other things.

Anyway, some wealthy person like Al Gore might benefit from the fact that there are corporate taxes on these companies, as it means a lower income tax for him, where the difference between the tax rates more than makes up for the additional cost, but as for me and my relatives, the difference between the tax rates does not make up for the higher costs, so we lose while he wins. It is not very fair, but that is how things are.

And yes, Ohio is a foreign nation. So is every other state in the union. That is why they call it the union.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Some people just REALLY need to justify their foreign parent company sourced purchases.

I guess they feel it helps to sound all intellectual and 'Manhattan elitist' while pleading said justification.

Even though I know some of those same elitists who would agree with me, feel that the so-called "free trade, global economy" is the death knell for the middle class (maybe even everyone?) in OUR country, and would MORE than welcome at least a little bit of that "dirty word", i.e.; protectionism right about now.

How do you account for the fact that there was no middle class in the United States until after the United States had free trade within its borders?

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Well, there's some conceptual validity to what he asserts. It doesn't play out that way for various not pondered realities.


That said, there were reliable 80's cars and a buttload of failed experiments for GM.

This was one of the non-experiments ..it retained traditional reliability.


When there is a flood of vehicle models with poor reliability, it becomes difficult to believe that there are any with good reliability, whatever good reliability might mean.

General Motors has had so many issues over the past 20 years that even if I saw statistics showing that one model was good (e.g. Pontiac Vibe), I would think buying it would be a bad choice.

 

[dailydriver]

So then, given your supposedly irrefutable logic, and Toy's current circumstances, should the same be said about your Nippon Juggernaut's products??!!

 

[mechanicx]

Your problem is you make ridiculous statements and claims with no real numbers or facts to back them up.

Your assertion that something made in Ohio, Michigan or any other state is the same as being made in China or being made by foreign ownership is ludicrous. Go get you a job in China if that's the case.

There's plenty of GM vehicles from the 80's, 90's and more recent with 150K, 200K, 300K miles or more that don't have a lot of problems. Foreign cars had their problem areas too. You are just repeating urban legends and myths, and making claims backed up by nothing.

 

[severach]

Part of vehicle reliability depends on the mechanical skills of the owner. I had Chevettes go 160K miles when everyone else was getting 70K. Thanks to me we can now upgrade GM to a first class car company.

The simple principle is "Things sound better when you say them."

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
There is no way that I benefit from the fact that any company pays taxes. I believe President Reagan once described corporate taxes as an attempt to have companies collect taxes for the federal government. As far as the mathematics of the situation are concerned, this describes the situation perfectly, as the taxes levied against them translate into hidden sales and export taxes. It is impossible for anything else to be the case.

Sales taxes hurt less wealthy individuals at the expense of those more wealthy and export taxes ruin foreign competitiveness and impact sales overseas, pushing companies to make sacrifices to remain competitive, regardless of how good they can be in terms of making their products. These sacrifices can involve jobs, salaries, quality and other things.

Anyway, some wealthy person like Al Gore might benefit from the fact that there are corporate taxes on these companies, as it means a lower income tax for him, where the difference between the tax rates more than makes up for the additional cost, but as for me and my relatives, the difference between the tax rates does not make up for the higher costs, so we lose while he wins. It is not very fair, but that is how things are.

And yes, Ohio is a foreign nation. So is every other state in the union. That is why they call it the union.


"Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind!"

You're in a UNION, you said it yourself. Either that or you could turn your argument into, any town outside of your own is a foreign nation since the town you live in is sovereign to some degree. Any piece of property outside that which you own is foreign.... your argument is ridiculous, and incorrect. I suggest you pull back from reading the theory behind government and look at the world around you before making such ridiculous statements.

 

[Falcon_LS]

The '80-'90 Caprice has always been my favourite GM car. Over here in the Middle East, they used to be the best thing since sliced bread, and were well known for their durability. Still a number of them on the road today, and one in decent condition does get you some good money - especially in Brougham and Brougham LS trim. Sure, things do go wrong (had 6 in the family) - central locking, sunvisors falling down intermittently, headliner falling down, exterior door handles breaking from their plastic frame, weatherstripping drying out...the list goes on. But these are all minor issues, and they are mechanically pretty sound.

I say slowly start fixing it up, and keep trucking. Maybe even do a full restoration at a later date, as already mentioned. Have you located where it's leaking from? Replace the PCV valve, and the speedometer cable, and check the condition of the valve cover gaskets if you haven't replaced them in the past couple of years. Is this a Brougham LS?

 

[caprice_2nv]

Wow, I can't believe what I started here. My opinion is that even as a Canadian this is a completely domestic car. The way I look at it, the car is built in Texas with many Canadian supplied parts. It created jobs for both Americans and Canadians and was known for being one of the most durable cars at the time, hence the police and cab companies extensive use of them.

Falcon LS, your short list of problems are basically all problems with my car. It's not a Brougham LS but has a somewhat rare option list on it. I think the valve cover gaskets are the leaking culprit. I've already done the tune up items, brakes (replaced original rear brake drums at 300k).

It's definately been cool reading so many peoples good experiences with these cars.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
Falcon LS, your short list of problems are basically all problems with my car. It's not a Brougham LS but has a somewhat rare option list on it. I think the valve cover gaskets are the leaking culprit. I've already done the tune up items, brakes (replaced original rear brake drums at 300k).


Had a feeling the valve cover gaskets were toast. Reading through your original post, the part about the oil leak and being 'down on power' gave it away. This was a common issue we had with all our Caprices. After replacing the valve cover gaskets, you do feel like the car drives much better.

Speaking of, I never understood why American and Canadian versions of this car came with 85 MPH/140 km/h speedometers. They all came with 200 km/h speedometers here.

 

[caprice_2nv]

I wish they came with 200k speedo's here. I watched a youtube video of someone overseas driving one with it pegged past 200km/h and it was driving along nice and smooth and quiet.

 

[Oldswagon]

As long as the body and frame are still solid, I'd keep running the old girl. Just don't sink too much cash into it. I retired my '85 Olds not because it was mechanically worn (it was mechanically almost perfect), but because the body and frame were just getting too rusted out after 20+ Ontario winters.

All the things on your list are pretty minor issues, easy to repair and relatively low cost (if you do the work yourself). One thing I'd get fixed soon is the TCC. Running in OD with no lock-up produces a lot of heat. There is more slippage than the drive range. Have you tried to maually lock the TCC through the ALDL with a jumper wire?? If that works, you could always wire up a toggle switch. I have the TCC wiring diagram for this vintage of b-body in one of my GM service manuals. It's a simple circuit, and wouldn't be hard to figure out what the problem is.

Oh, and to the person who said Canadian cars had vacuum TCC switches, this was true up until about 1986-87. By the late 80's Canada had implemented the same emission standards as the US (1988 cars have a ECM controlled TCC).

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
Wow, I can't believe what I started here. My opinion is that even as a Canadian this is a completely domestic car. The way I look at it, the car is built in Texas with many Canadian supplied parts. It created jobs for both Americans and Canadians and was known for being one of the most durable cars at the time, hence the police and cab companies extensive use of them.


Also back them, GM was a "healthier" company although the EPA mandated emissions controls that make a V8 become anemic and they still controlled their supply chain.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS

Speaking of, I never understood why American and Canadian versions of this car came with 85 MPH/140 km/h speedometers. They all came with 200 km/h speedometers here.

Because back then US federal law required 55mph interstate speed limits and an 85 mph speedometer. Even US market Ferraris had an 85 mph speedometer lol. Oh yeah I think the police got a higher mph speedometer.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx

Because back then US federal law required 55mph interstate speed limits and an 85 mph speedometer. Even US market Ferraris had an 85 mph speedometer lol. Oh yeah I think the police got a higher mph speedometer.


As I recall the Reagan administration did away with the 85MPH speedometer mandate in the early 80s. I don't know why the automakers continued to make cars with 85MPH speedometers until the early 90s.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS

Speaking of, I never understood why American and Canadian versions of this car came with 85 MPH/140 km/h speedometers. They all came with 200 km/h speedometers here.

Because back then US federal law required 55mph interstate speed limits and an 85 mph speedometer. Even US market Ferraris had an 85 mph speedometer lol. Oh yeah I think the police got a higher mph speedometer.


Oh man,a Ferrari with an 85mph speed odometer. Imagine that. If that were my car,that needle would be bouncin off 85 until it broke off.

 

[Steve S]

Must have had Onstar email to know when to do the oil changes.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

Because back then US federal law required 55mph interstate speed limits and an 85 mph speedometer. Even US market Ferraris had an 85 mph speedometer lol. Oh yeah I think the police got a higher mph speedometer.


As I recall the Reagan administration did away with the 85MPH speedometer mandate in the early 80s. I don't know why the automakers continued to make cars with 85MPH speedometers until the early 90s.


I guess the automaker had plenty of 85 mph speedo stock and wasn't going to change speedometers until the whole platform got redone.