2023 Pilot engine?

[PWMDMD]

Honda could care less.
This odyssey is also my last Honda. The quality of parts overall has gone downhill. Fast.
Engine mounts, alternators, brakes, vcm gaskets.
Honda is a shell of its former self living off of it previous image of quality and reliability
It's too bad.

I wasn't impressed with our 2018 Pilot. The 9-speed was a disaster, the entire vehicle felt cheap, the rear suspension boomed over even little road imperfections (had the limited so extra sound insulation), needed a new HVAC blower at 800 miles, leaking rear differential at 11K miles, lots of squeaks and rattles by 20k miles, paint was sub-par.

I used a Muzzler because there were enough stories that I figured why not? Traded it in at around 30k because it really didn't seem like it was going to go the distance. I think both Toyota and Honda are still living on their reputations earned 20 years ago and while they may still be better than the rest of the disastrous manufactures out there I still don't think they're good. I don't know if there are any really good manufacturer in existence today.

 

[dkryan]

1. What is a “VCM?”

2. What is “muzzling” as it relates to an automobile ICE?

 

[jeepman3071]

I wasn't impressed with our 2018 Pilot. The 9-speed was a disaster, the entire vehicle felt cheap, the rear suspension boomed over even little road imperfections (had the limited so extra sound insulation), needed a new HVAC blower at 800 miles, leaking rear differential at 11K miles, lots of squeaks and rattles by 20k miles, paint was sub-par.

I used a Muzzler because there were enough stories that I figured why not? Traded it in at around 30k because it really didn't seem like it was going to go the distance. I think both Toyota and Honda are still living on their reputations earned 20 years ago and while they may still be better than the rest of the disastrous manufactures out there I still don't think they're good. I don't know if there are any really good manufacturer in existence today.

I don't think there are, IMO. It is all a trade-off.

 

[supton]

1. What is a “VCM?”

2. What is “muzzling” as it relates to an automobile ICE?

1. variable cylinder management. Honda speak for GM’s AFM. Or displacement on demand. Basically they shunt down some cylinders under light load to save some mpg.

Some engine familes have found some weak spots with this tech. GM’s eat lifters, Honda’s clog oil rings. I believe GM’s will eat torque converters while Honda will eat engine mounts also.

2. For whatever reason, the gizmo that one can plug into a Honda is known as a “muzzler”. No idea why. I don‘t believe any other engine family calls their defeat mechanism that also?

 

[dkryan]

Thanks, Sutton.

That sounds like the ghost of the old Cadillac “4-6-8” engine.

 

[supton]

Thanks, Sutton.

That sounds like the ghost of the old Cadillac “4-6-8” engine.

Unlike that engine, today’s engines will get past 100k. How much past that, eh…. No small amount of debate there.

Ranks right up there with start-stop it seems, although I’d say worse. on account of damage. Start-stop is unnerving, but doesn’t seem to break things (that I know of).

 

[jeepman3071]

Unlike that engine, today’s engines will get past 100k. How much past that, eh…. No small amount of debate there.

Ranks right up there with start-stop it seems, although I’d say worse. on account of damage. Start-stop is unnerving, but doesn’t seem to break things (that I know of).

I haven't seen or heard of start stop really causing any problems. The starting systems are also usually more robust. I'll be honest and say my dislike for it is the annoyance while driving. Some systems are integrated better than others, but quite a few vehicles still have an annoying delay/hiccup.

I like the option my friend's 2015 BMW 335i has where you can push a button to disable it, since it is still there if you feel you'd like to conserve. Many cars don't have this option.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Stop this internet foolishness "muzzler" Stoopid name! AHhhhhrgg! What a Peeve!

It all started with CEL instead of MIL on some Honda forum decades ago; around the time of AltaVista

At least the GM guys were adults back then and assigned the the T56 CAGS bypass the epithet "skip-shift eliminator"

Got to beat the stoopid out of the internet !

 

[CKN]

Stop/start other than not being liked has zero negative issues. It's been around for about a decade now.

 

[tyman]

1. variable cylinder management. Honda speak for GM’s AFM. Or displacement on demand. Basically they shunt down some cylinders under light load to save some mpg.

Some engine familes have found some weak spots with this tech. GM’s eat lifters, Honda’s clog oil rings. I believe GM’s will eat torque converters while Honda will eat engine mounts also.

2. For whatever reason, the gizmo that one can plug into a Honda is known as a “muzzler”. No idea why. I don‘t believe any other engine family calls their defeat mechanism that also?

Not sure who came up with calling it a muzzler but same principle with a muzzle for a dog. It keeps the dog from barking or biting. The VCM muzzler keeps VCM from working and gunking up the engine.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Stop/start other than not being liked has zero negative issues. It's been around for about a decade now.

Yes it always great to start your engine 20+ times a trip with no oil pressure. What's the worse that could happen.

You have no data CKN.

 

[tyman]

Ranks right up there with start-stop it seems, although I’d say worse. on account of damage.

Yup

 

[tyman]

Yes it always great to start your engine 20+ times a trip with no oil pressure. What's the worse that could happen.

You have no data CKN.

Seems to be a common theme for him to throw out baseless claims and not be able to provide any evidence.

 

[CKN]

Yes it always great to start your engine 20+ times a trip with no oil pressure. What's the worse that could happen.

You have no data CKN.

Do you know how many Ford trucks have been produced with start/stop? Hard data no. But with the number of Ford Trucks on the roads, the Ford Specific Forums would be ablaze with complaints if it was an issue-while there are other complaints'-start stop isn't one of them. There is an explanation how the motor starts-and it's not with zero oil pressure.

Quote-
The engine is designed to hold a certain amount of oil in the top end of the engine at shutdown. This gives the top end of the engine immediate access to oil vs, a cold start in the morning when all the oil has drained back down into the pan.
You are misinformed.

However-being misinformed on "new tech" (even though this isn't) is not unusual on this board.
AT the bottom of the page of this link there are a ton of sources to help you better understand.

Understanding stop/start automobile-engine design, Part 2: The starter motor - Power Electronic Tips

The previous part of the article provided the context and rationale for stop/start operation in cars with internal combustion engines. This par will look at its impact on the starter motor itself.

www.powerelectronictips.com

You are welcome!

 

[Greasymechtech]

What engine is designed to hold oil in the top end? how's that help the bottom end? how does it compare to an engine that isn't designed to hold oil in top end? Why do I smell marketing turd and not anything engineering specific? how well does the dipstick work when all the oil is held in the top end?

Big deal..starter motor is heavy duty and the battery usually too.

I'd be impressed if start/stop had an oil accumulator or electric oil pump. I guess we'll have to rely on the mini-trolls housed in their top end village with their handy oilers to keep it all lubed. I'll see if I can find the SAE paper that shows the wizards that shrunk and trained the ogres into little oiling workers..... are maybe it was the witches, or the machine salvaged from Honey I Shrunk the Kids.

 

[supton]

Yes it always great to start your engine 20+ times a trip with no oil pressure. What's the worse that could happen.

You have no data CKN.

This from a guy who is always complaining about how a motor oil ruined his engine? this is too loud, but this concoction quieted it right down? had to trade out of this because of the engine noise?

No offense here, but show me the Toyota Hybrid’s which have had start/stop for what, two decades now? and haven’t had bottom end issues. Oil ring issues maybe (certain Prius models) but bearing issues?

Engine start/stop is unnerving. It doesn’t seem to impact longevity.

 

[scotty.honda.dog]

It's a J35 but is DOHC and doesn't have VTEC

Not totally accurate information, but that is understandable, the press releases and early articles were unclear.

From the vehicle specs on the Honda website:
“24-Valve DOHC with Dual Variable Timing Control (VTC)”

VTC is VTEC.

I saw a couple of articles that mentioned it was a narrower angle V6 that previous J35 engines, but I am not sure of that. It was not mentioned in the Honda press releases, wonder if the reporter was confusing the narrow valve angle, dunno.

Best blurb I have found from Honda press releases:

“
Pilot is one of the smoothest and most powerful SUVs in its class, and both the vehicle and the all-new 24-valve DOHC 3.5-liter V6 engine that powers it are made* at the company's auto plant in Lincoln, Alabama. This is Honda's most powerful V6 ever, producing 285 horsepower and 262 lb.-ft. of torque (both SAE net).

The all-aluminum V6 features a unique block and low-profile cylinder heads with high-tumble ports and a narrow 35-degree valve angle for better combustion. The low-profile design of the new DOHC cylinder heads also allowed a more compact rocker arm and hydraulic lash adjuster design. Honda engineers also did away with separate cam bearing caps and instead incorporated them directly into the valve cover itself. The result is a 30 mm reduction in overall cylinder head height. The new design also reduces the number of parts. Variable Cylinder Management™ (VCM™) improves fuel efficiency and reduces emissions.
“

 

[tyman]

Honda Information Center - DOHC i-VTEC® with Variable Timing Control (VTC) (Select models)

www.hondainfocenter.com

 

[doublebase]

Yeah, after years of being a loyal Honda owner, I stay away from the brand now.

Between the fuel dilution in their “earth dreams” engines, and problems with oil consumption and rings in engines? I’m not going there. And did anyone see their new Accord they just released? talk about taking a step back, what the heck are they doing?

I know looks are subjective, but this thing looks like they told the engineers to make something as boring and nondescript as possible, oh and let’s take away the 2.0 liter power plant. It just seems like an enormous step back from the current Accord. Meanwhile Toyota makes their Camry actually look sporty and modern. It’s like both brands switched their scripts. Christ, the Camry even comes with this storm trooper looking model...with the hardware all black, roof, grill, surrounded by a nice white paint. It actually looks like a nice car (IMO).

 

[supton]

It’s like both brands switched their scripts.

Ironically I’ve been upset at Toyota for going this way, lol. Gimme a boring car that isolates from whatever passes as “pavement” that I have to drive on. The more it blends in today, the more likely it will blend in tomorrow.

Although my “11 might have been the car I least liked. In driving, comfort and overall frumpiness looking.