2022 Corolla Cross HPL PP 0W8 30,049 Mile OCI

[SubieRubyRoo]

No, the oxidation limit in this oil has not been reached. The HDEO in my Durango has a virgin oxidation value of about 40. Since HPL's base oils are high in carbonyl groups, ASTM D7414 will show high oxidation even in virgin oil. Let's say the virgin oxidation value of this oil is 40 and after 30k miles the oxidation is 56.3, then the real oxidation value after 30k miles is 16.3, which is lower than Wearcheck's suggested condemnation value of >25.

My point is the absolute oxidation value on the UOA is useless unless you normalize the value with the known virgin oxidation number.

That means if oxidation increases at a given rate in “steady-state” conditions like Fe does (no extreme temperature or stress changes)… OP has at least an outside chance of running a 50k OCI before condemnation, with about 24ppm of iron and a TBN still >2.0. If oxidative thickening did the same, the oil would likely end up in the middle of the 30wt viscosity window.

Of course that’s just speculation… at this point

 

[twX]

Gotcha, but I didn’t consider where it began, I just observed the limits, and that it exceeded the limits in oxidation, sulfation and nitration. Are those three, factors in sludge and varnish formation?

Nitration creates sludge precursors that can cause sludge formation, but only in the presence of other contaminants such as water, fuel, or soot, and mainly as the engine is warming up. In this particular case, with an engine that is almost never cold and with those other contaminants in check, I wouldn't be worried too much about sludge. Oxidation products are mainly what contribute to varnish.

 

[doublebase]

No, the oxidation limit in this oil has not been reached. The HDEO in my Durango has a virgin oxidation value of about 40. Since HPL's base oils are high in carbonyl groups, ASTM D7414 will show high oxidation even in virgin oil. Let's say the virgin oxidation value of this oil is 40 and after 30k miles the oxidation is 56.3, then the real oxidation value after 30k miles is 16.3, which is lower than Wearcheck's suggested condemnation value of >25.

My point is the absolute oxidation value on the UOA is useless unless you normalize the value with the known virgin oxidation number.

Nice, thank you!

Didn’t realize esters will do that in a base oil.

 

[Stumpy]

We have a new Lord High Grand Exalted Poobah of Long Gas Engine OCI's!

 

[loneryder]

Is there ever a bad UOA on here?? Is everyone now going to use HPL 0-8 and maybe change it every 5 years if you still have the vehicle? Will using HPL 0-8 add value to a used car? "This vehicle has HPL in it and won't wear out."

 

[TiGeo]

Is there ever a bad UOA on here?? Is everyone now going to use HPL 0-8 and maybe change it every 5 years if you still have the vehicle? Will using HPL 0-8 add value to a used car? "This vehicle has HPL in it and won't wear out."

You aren't wrong.

 

[wwillson]

Is there ever a bad UOA on here?? Is everyone now going to use HPL 0-8 and maybe change it every 5 years if you still have the vehicle? Will using HPL 0-8 add value to a used car? "This vehicle has HPL in it and won't wear out."

Time will tell

 

[OVERKILL]

@Direct_Rejection thanks for posting this. The oil geek in me wants to see under the valve cover. How hard would it be to pull the cover and take some pictures?

This^

Would love to see under the valve cover!

TBN holds up a LOT better in this application than it does in my HEMI's, but you are piling on way more miles per month than I am, so that may be a contributing factor, and, you don't have a Canadian winter to contend with.

 

[malibuguy79]

I cannot wait to be in a position to switch to HPL

 

[Best F100]

Question:

Which Corolla Cross engine do you have, gasoline or gasoline/hybrid?

Either way, impressive UOA.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

And people are spreading hysteria that 0w-20 isn’t sufficient for 5k intervals

Nice results

 

[Artem]

And people are spreading hysteria that 0w-20 isn’t sufficient for 5k intervals

Nice results

For your average aging daily beater that only drives around town, bumper to bumper… yea, by 5k it’s pretty nasty looking, from what I’m seeing come thru the shop.

There’s really no need for super crazy high tech oil for a regular daily beater when regular oil changed every 5k is all it needs to be happy.

 

[RDY4WAR]

My view is there's no need to waste a precious resource (oil) with short oil changes. Use a better quality oil at longer intervals, reduce the resource consumption, and often come out the same or sometimes cheaper in maintenance cost.

 

[TiGeo]

 

[KEVINK0000]

My view is there's no need to waste a precious resource (oil) with short oil changes. Use a better quality oil at longer intervals, reduce the resource consumption, and often come out the same or sometimes cheaper in maintenance cost.

It depends on the engine, usage pattern and the oil. In no way does what you say apply in any and all cases. This is an exemplary oil, in an exemplary engine, with an exemplary usage pattern- therefore the results are exemplary. Can they be moved to other applications as a reference--I say not without a lot of care and wisdom.

 

[RDY4WAR]

It depends on the engine, usage pattern and the oil. In no way does what you say apply in any and all cases. This is an exemplary oil, in an exemplary engine, with an exemplary usage pattern- therefore the results are exemplary. Can they be moved to other applications as a reference--I say not without a lot of care and wisdom.

The point is make the most of each oil change. That obviously will vary with each engine. It just annoys me that people will dump out perfectly good oil, way before it actually needs to be changed, because their old man and mentor got bamboozled by a brand's or quick lube place's marketing campaign back in 1982.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Is there ever a bad UOA on here?? Is everyone now going to use HPL 0-8 and maybe change it every 5 years if you still have the vehicle? Will using HPL 0-8 add value to a used car? "This vehicle has HPL in it and won't wear out."

Sure there are bad UOAs, fusseli has posted several and ignored all advice to the contrary. His engine will provide the counterpoint to this one; Direct_Rejection has extremely low wear numbers and great TBN with low fuel dilution; fusseli has somewhat decent numbers with concerning, questionable fuel dilution and many samples out of grade and low TBN.

There are other “bad” UOAs, for various reasons. Some have trends far above universal averages; some have out-of-grade viscosity; some have fuel >5% or flash point under 380*F.

There have even been some “concerning” results with HPL, but those are usually on engines that had prior concerns and was hoping HPL would “save” it.

 

[DirectRejection]

Wow, there are numerous top tier posts in here.
Plenty to learn.
It is hoped everyone takes a look in spite of the novel nature of my circumstances..
As always YMMV.

Several beneficial factors come together to create optimum results,
which showcase the potential of High Performance Lubricants oil.

First, it is established that my driving conditions are consistently easy on oil. All of my adult life, I have been a delivery driver subcontractor in the San Francisco Bay Area. I deliver everything from small parcels to light pallets. There is 70% highway driving. Most significantly, 200 or so highway miles are accrued 350 days a year. Five decades, 4.5 million miles, and most recent ten years of data make this point abundantly clear.

Second, there is this vehicle and this engine. I have 250,000 miles of experience with this engine series. I have my current 2022 Corolla Cross (M20A-FKS non hybrid), Previously I drove a Lexus UX 250h F-Sport (M20A-FXS hybrid} for 160,000 miles. I am not now seeing, nor have I ever seen any evidence of oil consumption or high fuel dilution. Dipstick level is constant and smells fine. The D-4S Port Injection/Direct Injection combo system works quite well. There is 40-41% thermal efficiency. Features are built in here such as coolant jackets, and oil retention grooves. At30,000 miles, the oil is still medium amber on the dipstick and dark amber {not black} when drained.

Finally, and most relevant is High Performance Lubricants oil. Experience in several forms of racing, fleet and industrial applications are found here. There is an obsession for quality control, and a vision to use best quality, no compromise ingredients. Industry best phd's contributed centrally to oil design. Needless to say, a 0W8 motor oil would have to be very cleverly created to perform like this.

Clarifications:
MPG 35 overall, sometimes better, but not a point of emphasis.
Spec is 0W16 SP/GF-6B.
Oil filter is Mobil 1 M103A Extended Performance.
OFCI 30,000 miles.
Garden variety 87 octane fuel, with an occasional tankful of ARCO or Chevron Top- Tier.
One bottle of Chevron Techron Fuel System Cleaner w/high dosage was used half way through this OCI.
Factory air filter was replaced with a snug, perfect fit Genuine Toyota air filter at 75,000 miles.
I do a little bit of dusty road driving at job sites.
Lots of spirited driving here, high RPM's and 75-80 MPH on highways.

I have used HPL PP 0W8 from the same batch since removing the factory fill at 3,000 miles. I have to wonder about the benefits of consistency, and the positive aspects of cumulative use of this oil. I am convinced my engine is sparkling clean and very well protected.

It is rightful to be concerned about such things as Nitration, Sulfation, Oxidation, Silicon, and Viscosity. However, my results sure do look pretty darn good. Are the rules evolving ? The proof in the pudding will come after 100's of thousands of miles of driving. My plan has been to pull the valve cover, cut open the oil filter, and take pictures, at 240,000 miles, which will be in two years.

 

[Tachyon]

There are several things that kill this for me:

• the mileage is penciled in, every single time - pro tip: use Photoshop or a PDF editor, it's more credible that way;
• the engine takes 4.9 quarts of motor oil, filter included - no way it can go 30K miles without adding makeup oil, especially taking into account oxidation - the sump is simply too small for such an extended OCI;
• how much makeup oil was added?
• where is the Boron coming from?
• the oil filter is Mobil 1, which is cellulose - I'd love to see the insides of that filer;

 

[DirectRejection]

1. I will continue to "pencil in." Credibility is well established. Wear metal trends, established with methodical methods, over gradually extended OCIs, speak for themselves. We shall see if any "sludge precursors" or sludge itself are present, over time.
2. To repeat, dipstick showed no movement throughout OCI. That is no surprise here. 250,000 of experience with M20A-FKS/M20A-FXS and studying Toyota's design herein clearly show that temperatures are well managed.
3. Again, not a droplet of makeup oil was added.
4. Boron source ? Unknown. Zero negative effects anticipated.
5. As stated, pictures of the inside of the oil filter will be provided at 240,000 miles, in two years. There might be something to see then.

I see comments elsewhere about "egos."

Your weak sauced spitballing post here, in a UOA thread, does not reflect positively on yours IMO.