2020 Tundra needs new front differential

[PWMDMD]

... and I'm glad I bought the 8yr/100k mile factory extended warranty

A very common question here and elsewhere is whether or not extended warranties are "worth it". My personal feelings are:

1. If there is a known issue with the vehicle that will likely come up during ownership, go for it. I bought an extended warranty for the Subaru primary due to the CVT and infotainment and one for the Tundra due to cam tower leaks and the needle bearing in the front differential.

2. If you plan to keep the vehicle for a long time and they offer a warranty that will match this for time and mileage, go for it.

3. It's a form of insurance and some value must be given to "peace of mind".

4. NEVER over pay. I have purchased factory extended warranties from Honda, Subaru, Lexus, and Toyota at cost our just slightly over on the internet and in the finance manager's office. This is very easy in the age of the interweb.

5. Only buy through manufacturer


My 2020 Tundra has 70k miles on it and I purchase a Toyota VSA Platinum 8yr/100k miles plan for $1100. Today the dealership confirmed I need a new front differential due to a worn needle bearing which has already been authorized by Toyota. I don't tow, only use 4WD if it's snowing, and serviced the differentials at 50k miles.

I didn't see the cost but it's 8 hours of work and my guess is out of pocket would've been $3500-$5000. That was the best $1100 I could spend on a truck that many would say is "bulletproof" Toyota and I was wasting my money.

I suspect I'll eventually use my 8yr/120k mile extended warranty on the Subaru too for either the CVT or infotainment or both. I don't have an extended warranty on the 2019 Lexus and it needs two new wheel bearings with just 75k easy miles showing even "bulletproof" vehicles experience early failures.

Anyway...my 2 cents...

 

[KGMtech]

Agreed, but this place has you preaching to the Choir right? I also tend to keep my cars 10 years or so, and the cost of extended warranties is not much when you amortize over the long stay in the driveway.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My parents neighbor had an mid 90's Camry 4 banger. You don't get much more reliable than that! Something major went; engine if I remember correctly. She had an extended warranty. I sold it for her when she got a 2012 Camry. Great lady...

 

[PWMDMD]

Agreed, but this place has you preaching to the Choir right? I also tend to keep my cars 10 years or so, and the cost of extended warranties is not much when you amortize over the long stay in the driveway.

It's a "diverse group" here...lol.

 

[Cujet]

Being a loyal Ford customer, I've often purchased the online discount 'direct from Ford' powertrain warranty with my new trucks. I'd by lyin if I said they were useless. But they were $600 back then, not $4,800 like they are now.

 

[GON]

It's a "diverse group" here...lol.

One of the actions you posted makes a lot of sense. Price the OEM warranty from on-line sources, then offer to pay slightly above the online price when negotiating with the business/ finance manager.

By the OEM warranty from the selling new car dealer can't hurt and may help during a challenging situation.

I like your strategy.

 

[PWMDMD]

One of the actions you posted makes a lot of sense. Price the OEM warranty from on-line sources, then offer to pay slightly above the online price when negotiating with the business/ finance manager.

By the OEM warranty from the selling new car dealer can't hurt and may help during a challenging situation.

I like your strategy.

For the Tundra, I bought from a dealership in Michigan over the internet who makes the process super easy.

The Subaru deal was with the finance manager. I just looked up their cost before going and I offered him $100 over that. I don't remember all the exact numbers but these are close. Initially, he quoted $3300. I said I'll give you $1300. He asked why I thought he could "possibly be able to sell it for that price?" I said because I know it costs you $1200 and you'd be silly to not sell it for $1 over cost - all you're out is a signature on a paper. Then I said, matter of fact you'd be silly to not give it to me for cost but since I'm such a nice guy I left $100 on the bone.

He smiled and said, You're right!

 

[ctechbob]

Just curious, is your 4wd system an automatic system or on/off only?

I know F150's with the auto 4wd tend to chew through the front diffs since they are always spinning whether they're being used or not.

 

[PWMDMD]

Just curious, is your 4wd system an automatic system or on/off only?

I know F150's with the auto 4wd tend to chew through the front diffs since they are always spinning whether they're being used or not.

On/off..pretty basic 4wd system. If the front differential had more than a couple thousand miles on it, I'd be surprised. Really just driven in 4wd in snow and then I'm usually doing minimal driving.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

The 8yr/120k HondaCare on my Pilot sadly has more than paid for itself. Bought online for much less than dealer was quoting.

Same scenario on my old Sequoia. The online, forum recommended warranty sales dealer was less than 1/3 of the price of the local ones. Some of them were doing the high price on aftermarket versions not factory.

 

[4wd]

Just curious, is your 4wd system an automatic system or on/off only?

I know F150's with the auto 4wd tend to chew through the front diffs since they are always spinning whether they're being used or not.

That’s also a good question regarding the GM’s and now even the recent model Wrangler’s with full time 4WD options …

 

[D1dad]

Sounds like you did well, my son in law not so much. His turbo on his f150 platinum went out and the warranty company made it impossible. He changed his own oil and kept all the receipts but they claimed that generic receipts couldn’t be linked to the mileage he actually changed the oil. Much like a lot of us, he loaded up on good oil deals and often bought 20 qts at a time and used the oil as needed. A ford dealer during Covid offered him a way above fair deal and he dumped it.

 

[50yr Street Mech]

No excuses from Toyota for manufacturing a differential that would only last 70K !!!! And you serviced it no less at 50K, with minimal use to boot ! Smart move getting the extended warranty. Vehicle manufacturers are cranking out overpriced garbage nowadays. Friggin disgrace IMO.

 

[SC Maintenance]

@PWMDMD are they replacing the entire diff or just the bearing?

I have never done the extended warranty. I thus far would never have needed it. Knock on wood. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[PWMDMD]

Sounds like you did well, my son in law not so much. His turbo on his f150 platinum went out and the warranty company made it impossible. He changed his own oil and kept all the receipts but they claimed that generic receipts couldn’t be linked to the mileage he actually changed the oil. Much like a lot of us, he loaded up on good oil deals and often bought 20 qts at a time and used the oil as needed. A ford dealer during Covid offered him a way above fair deal and he dumped it.

This is why I recommend the extended warranty from the manufacturer. While certainly no guarantee they'll approve anything, I do think many are easier to work with if you have all your documentation lined up. This is a hill I'm wiling to die on (the right to change my own fluids and maintain the warranty), but the again, I have a good friend who is an attorney who does Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act cases.

Most of her cases involving automobiles are lemon law/failure to repair in reasonable time and not breach of warranty/warranty denial or improper exclusion cases, although they do happen. She said Stellantis, Ford, GM, Nissan, and Tesla are the worst to deal with Ford pushing the process of litigation longer before settling and Toyota/Lexus, Subaru, Honda/Acura, and Mazda are the easiest to deal with by far. In her opinion, Toyota/Lexus is the best with goodwill repairs, accepting good documentation, and they are less combative overall.

 

[PWMDMD]

@PWMDMD are they replacing the entire diff or just the bearing?

I have never done the extended warranty. I thus far would never have needed it. Knock on wood. Glad it worked out for you.

The entire differential. Apparently, it's the only way Toyota does it even though if this wasn't a warranty claim, I could bring it to an indy shop and they could replace just the bearing with an aftermarket solid bearings that completely fix this known design issue. If I get another 70K miles out of the new differential before it goes again, this is the route I'll take.

 

[PWMDMD]

No excuses from Toyota for manufacturing a differential that would only last 70K !!!! And you serviced it no less at 50K, with minimal use to boot ! Smart move getting the extended warranty. Vehicle manufacturers are cranking out overpriced garbage nowadays. Friggin disgrace IMO.

Not sure how common the needle bearing issue is other than to say it's a known issue and it's been know for decades now. My understanding is they do make aftermarket solid bearings for the differential that completely solve this premature wear problem. One would think Toyota would've changed over to this design but here we are.

Cam tower leaks around the sealer are another one that is known to happen and that can be a big job. I've been inspecting this myself and ask anyone who is doing service on it to also check and so far so good.

 

[Cujet]

Just curious, is your 4wd system an automatic system or on/off only?

I know F150's with the auto 4wd tend to chew through the front diffs since they are always spinning whether they're being used or not.

My 2009 and 2024 F150 4x4's utilize vacuum operated locking hubs. And you are correct, when in the 4wd 'auto' mode I believe the vacuum is no longer ported to the hubs and the differential spins.

However, in 2wd mode, the front differential is not spinning. As the hubs are retracted by vacuum and the transfer case is not engaged. So maximum MPG and minimum wear.

Unless conditions warrant it, 2wd mode is likely the best choice. Ford tries to make the truck perform like a AWD vehicle, but the system is at its core, a typical 4x4 setup. Pretty clunky, relatively robust and quite capable.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Not sure how common the needle bearing issue is other than to say it's a known issue and it's been know for decades now. My understanding is they do make aftermarket solid bearings for the differential that completely solve this premature wear problem. One would think Toyota would've changed over to this design but here we are.

Cam tower leaks around the sealer are another one that is known to happen and that can be a big job. I've been inspecting this myself and ask anyone who is doing service on it to also check and so far so good.

My understanding is Toyota uses a undersized needle bearing, although I have mostly heard of it being a problem in lifted trucks - if its the same issue as the 4 Runner / Taco guys have. Every other OEM uses a more beafy roller or ball bearing at the axle entrance.

Still surprised there doing a full diff swap for a axle side bearing. Good for owners.

There are aftermarket bushing replacements but I cannot imagine a bushing lasting much longer.

Every OEM does something poorly.

 

[PWMDMD]

My understanding is Toyota uses a undersized needle bearing, although I have mostly heard of it being a problem in lifted trucks - if its the same issue as the 4 Runner / Taco guys have. Every other OEM uses a more beafy roller or ball bearing at the axle entrance.

Still surprised there doing a full diff swap for a axle side bearing. Good for owners.

There are aftermarket bushing replacements but I cannot imagine a bushing lasting much longer.

Every OEM does something poorly.

Truck has Bilsteins in the front and rear and the fronts are lifted just 1.9" to level the normal rake. It's very hard to even notice. The dealership didn't say anything and I'm not offering any additional information!