2019 Ram 1500 5.7 "Extended" Oil Changes

That's why I asked. It was the filter that was used on the pre electric steering DS trucks and it fits, but it is tight, on the DT trucks. I don't recall if anybody has tried to see if it will fit on the DS (Classic) with the electric power steering or not.
I tried once, the larger filter definitely wasn’t fitting. Not my pic, but you can see it’s friggin tight in there!

I’ll have to cut my filter open since I just changed my oil, 5800 miles on it… I’ll order a filter cutter.
26CB88C4-9178-411A-98F8-4E7F500C30F2.jpeg
 
I've toyed with going to 0w20, but I see that I would need to step up to Premium or Euro to get that. We get pretty cold for a week or so every year, but pretty cold is only single digits.
Random example: 2007 Pacifica owner's manual:
1663094048833-jpg.116858

10w-xx conventional is allowed for temps above 0F. 5w-xx for down to -20F.

A 5w-xx synthetic should be more than sufficient for your temperatures.
 
Brings up marginal rate of return scenarios in my head.
I have no doubt that HPL cleans better than Mobil 1, but I'm not entirely convinced that all of what appears to be carbon is from lesser quality oils. It could be but, I'm not convinced. Or are the rings dirtier than we think because we don't usually get to see those??

When I look at the SEQIIIH test, which is demanding for high temperature deposits/viscosity control, I fail to see how any top-quality full synthetic is not keeping rings clean especially in Toyotas etc. at moderate intervals. Unless it has more to do with usage??




 
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I have no doubt that HPL cleans better than Mobil 1, but I'm not entirely convinced that all of what appears to be carbon is from lesser quality oils. It could be but, I'm not convinced. Or are the rings dirtier than we think because we don't usually get to see those??

When I look at the SEQIIIH test, which is demanding for high temperature deposits/viscosity control, I fail to see how any top-quality full synthetic is not keeping rings clean especially in Toyotas etc. at moderate intervals. Unless it has more to do with usage??





Sequence IIIH, run twice as long by AMSOIL (180hrs) produced this:
FF_Signature_Series_40_Percent_Cleaner.jpg

But this isn't explicitly a piston cleanliness/deposit test!

Sequence VH:

Does specifically measure piston cleanliness. But it uses a Ford Modular engine, which is not hard on oil.

The previous sequence, VG, also used a Ford Modular 4.6L, but you can see how dirty "pass" is, and this is 216 hours:
Screen Shot 2023-03-24 at 4.11.41 PM.jpg


And if we are open to using anecdotes, look how many Honda VCM engines became absolute disasters, including stuck rings, run on API approved oils that included parameters for piston cleanliness. Then recall @Trav's results running them on M1 0W-40, which we know cleans.
 
Sequence IIIH, run twice as long by AMSOIL (180hrs) produced this:
FF_Signature_Series_40_Percent_Cleaner.jpg

But this isn't explicitly a piston cleanliness/deposit test!

Sequence VH:

Does specifically measure piston cleanliness. But it uses a Ford Modular engine, which is not hard on oil.

The previous sequence, VG, also used a Ford Modular 4.6L, but you can see how dirty "pass" is, and this is 216 hours:
View attachment 146611

And if we are open to using anecdotes, look how many Honda VCM engines became absolute disasters, including stuck rings, run on API approved oils that included parameters for piston cleanliness. Then recall @Trav's results running them on M1 0W-40, which we know cleans.
Yeah I've seen that before but do you think engines run in a normal operating environment would produce that level of carbon and varnish? The IIIH is a pretty stringent test. I would be surprised if that level of buildup would be there in a normal daily driver, but maybe there would be and I'm just not aware of it. That's where I'm confused. 🤔 Are the rings the source of carbon that people are seeing?

I'm open to anecdotes but cautiously skeptical. If HPL is indeed cleaning pistons of engines that used nothing but top tier synthetic oil I would be impressed and also surprised.
 
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Yeah I've seen that before but do you think engines run in a normal operating environment would produce that level of carbon and varnish? The IIIH is a pretty stringent test. I would be surprised if that level of buildup would be there in a normal daily driver, but maybe there would be and I'm just not aware of it. That's where I'm confused. 🤔 Are the rings the source of carbon that people are seeing?

I'm open to anecdotes but cautiously skeptical. If HPL is indeed cleaning pistons of engines that used nothing but top tier synthetic oil I would be impressed and also surprised.
I mean, these tests are designed to accelerate the results and that test is 216 hours. We have like ~2,200 hours on our RAM now, so 10x that. Would make sense that we'd have some buildup in the ring land area given how dirty the HEMI runs.

M1 0W-40 liberated the same sort of material on our Expedition that had been run on approved dealer bulk oil.

I've torn down many engines, but none of them have been run totally on a high quality lube like M1, because those haven't needed to be torn down, lol. So, I've seen coked up ring lands on engines run on like GTX and other value-tier oils but that's not really what you are wanting to see.

This apparently has 16,000 miles on it:
DSC_1141copy.jpg


And there are these from the Baja 1000 tear-down:
5448928015_41cbfbed1a_b.jpg


So I think the ring land area is indeed the most likely culprit. But how important this is going to be is going to depend on the engine design and operating conditions.
 
That would make sense. HPL must be doing some heavy cleaning then in some of these engines which is impressive.
 
I run between 7-9k mile OCI on my Ram Limited Hemi. I also run 5w/30 SYN so there is another option for your wish to have some cushion.
 
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When it comes to PUP, I find that oil a bit confusing. It is not marketed as extended drain, and it's really unclear what it offers over PP. Pennzoil says "extreme performance," whatever that means. Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline all market their top end oils as extended drain so PUP is kind of an outlier.
There's a reason why it's less popular than M1/Castrol EP
 
They will probably tell you it’s cause their GTL basestocks 🤣🤣🤣
It could be that being they are lowering the SA level they were able to lower ZDP to hit a better balance point in wear as anti wear additives and detergents compete for surface space. That latest video I posted with Lake he spoke how good SP oils are. He mentioned this balancing act that is ultimately what's it's all about. It's just as much of an art as it is a science.

I've noticed the SA for even some of Castrol's oils are .78 now. Does the API say you have to be at a certain level, or is it at or below? If they have to be at a certain level, then I have answer for that. * I just checked, and it can't be now more than .08%. There is a limit, but it doesn't say you can't be below it?? Is that right?

What is most interesting to me isn't wear control, it's the cleaning HPL was doing. Then again not everyone was cutting open their oil filters for other oils. Additionally, some have been reformulated recently (M1 Triple).

Wear differences among most oils are at noise level.

The two things that stand out with HPL the most IMO are the TBN retention and cleaning ability. However, the flip side is the SA is also significantly higher than most oils on the market.

Here is what PP claims:
Unsurpassed wear protection 1
Keep pistons up to 45% cleaner than required by the toughest industry standard 3


1.Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30.
2 Based on the latest industry standard.
3 Based on Sequence IIIH results. Does not apply to SAE 0W-16 or Pennzoil Platinum® Euro motor oil.
4 Up to 15 years or 500,000 miles, whichever comes first, guaranteed, if you exclusively use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ Full Synthetic motor oil, Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil, and Pennzoil Platinum® High Mileage Full Synthetic motor oil. Your engine must have less than 125,000 miles and been manufactured in the past 72 months.

I doubt you can claim the above and cheapen out on a few PPM of ZDP. It's possible but I doubt it. It would make sense to me that as they lower the detergent level they can lower the ZDP level and therefore achieve greater wear protection and lower SA as a result.

In fact, he said specifically that SP oils are "better." He would know as he's testing oils all the time. He also mentioned that how it becomes a marketing arms race when companies market how much XYX they are using. More is not always better he said.

The only area where I want to know %'s is how much your oil exceeds an engine test. Saying your oil has 650ppm of ZDP vs 715ppm tells me nothing in the grand scheme of things.
 
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It could be that being they are lowering the SA level they were able to lower ZDP to hit a better balance point in wear as anti wear additives and detergents compete for surface space. That latest video I posted with Lake he spoke how good SP oils are. He mentioned this balancing act that is ultimately what's it's all about. It's just as much of an art as it is a science.

I've noticed the SA for even some of Castrol's oils are .78 now. Does the API say you have to be at a certain level, or is it at or below? If they have to be at a certain level, then I have answer for that. * I just checked, and it can't be now more than .08%. There is a limit, but it doesn't say you can't be below it?? Is that right?

What is most interesting to me isn't wear control, it's the cleaning HPL was doing. Then again not everyone was cutting open their oil filters for other oils. Additionally, some have been reformulated recently (M1 Triple).

Wear differences among most oils are at noise level.

The two things that stand out with HPL the most IMO are the TBN retention and cleaning ability. However, the flip side is the SA is also significantly higher than most oils on the market.

Here is what PP claims:
Unsurpassed wear protection 1
Keep pistons up to 45% cleaner than required by the toughest industry standard 3


1.Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30.
2 Based on the latest industry standard.
3 Based on Sequence IIIH results. Does not apply to SAE 0W-16 or Pennzoil Platinum® Euro motor oil.
4 Up to 15 years or 500,000 miles, whichever comes first, guaranteed, if you exclusively use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ Full Synthetic motor oil, Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil, and Pennzoil Platinum® High Mileage Full Synthetic motor oil. Your engine must have less than 125,000 miles and been manufactured in the past 72 months.

I doubt you can claim the above and cheapen out on a few PPM of ZDP. It's possible but I doubt it. It would make sense to me that as they lower the detergent level they can lower the ZDP level and therefore achieve greater wear protection and lower SA as a result.

In fact, he said specifically that SP oils are "better." He would know as he's testing oils all the time. He also mentioned that how it becomes a marketing arms race when companies market how much XYX they are using. More is not always better he said.

The only area where I want to know %'s is how much your oil exceeds an engine test. Saying your oil has 650ppm of ZDP vs 715ppm tells me nothing in the grand scheme of things.
So, aside from all that; in layman’s terms their additive levels are low. Makes me glad I don’t buy into advertising and BS.

Some UOA’s of other oils lately are impressive and they aren’t name brand oils.


Sorry, I’m no tribologost or educated guy but Pennzoil isn’t on my “to use” list
 
So, aside from all that; in layman’s terms their additive levels are low. Makes me glad I don’t buy into advertising and BS.

Some UOA’s of other oils lately are impressive and they aren’t name brand oils.


Sorry, I’m no tribologost or educated guy but Pennzoil isn’t on my “to use” list
I’d take the time to understand what @buster wrote before jumping to conclusions.
 
I’d take the time to understand what @buster wrote before jumping to conclusions.
It’s not a conclusion. Just my opinion just like busters. Kinda odd that HPL oils do what they say. And I dunno but they aren’t advertising and marketing crazy. Peace out, I’m done with all this and “claims”
 
So, aside from all that; in layman’s terms their additive levels are low. Makes me glad I don’t buy into advertising and BS.

Some UOA’s of other oils lately are impressive and they aren’t name brand oils.


Sorry, I’m no tribologost or educated guy but Pennzoil isn’t on my “to use” list
That's fine I'm not trying to push Pennzoil on you lol. My point was there may be a legitimate reason why ZDP levels are lower in some of these newer blends. The flip side is they're cheapening out so to speak. I don't buy that. This was also not an attack on non name brand oils. As I've said I'm impressed with the HPL oils and I know they're top shelf.
 
That's fine I'm not trying to push Pennzoil on you lol. My point was there may be a legitimate reason why ZDP levels are lower in some of these newer blends. The flip side is they're cheapening out so to speak. I don't buy that. This was also not an attack on non name brand oils. As I've said I'm impressed with the HPL oils and I know they're top shelf.
Sorry if I was off base. I understand it. But I would appreciate some higher add levels kinda like QSUD or what’s it called has. Maybe I’m picky. All good sir 🍻🇺🇸👍
 
Sorry if I was off base. I understand it. But I would appreciate some higher add levels kinda like QSUD or what’s it called has. Maybe I’m picky. All good sir 🍻🇺🇸👍
A lot of things should not be taken at face value. You need to understand the pros/cons of each formulation approach. Higher add levels can have pros and cons. If the matter was that simple, these discussions would not exist.
 
Appreciate everyone's input. Thought provoking for sure, if nothing else, it shows 1+1≠2 and that's where the art comes in.
 
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