EcoBoost torture engine tear down

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Ok, I heard back from Phil Fabien, Engine Performance Development, V-Engine Engineering.

On the issue of deposits forming on the valves due to no gasoline with detergent being sprayed on the backside of the valve in a direct injected engine he said the following. He stated that fuel washes away deposits on a port injected engine, and that EGR can increase deposit formation, however, the 3.5L EcoBoost engine does not have an EGR system. Ford uses intake and exhaust cam phasing to provide internal EGR to the cylinders.

In regards to Jalopnik claiming Ford used water injection and that is why the valves are so clean he said there will always be people who do not believe what they have accomplished and how they explain they made that accomplishment. Basically, he said because of this they do not plan to address each one of the doubters.

In my opinion he is invoking one of my favorite Chinese proverbs:

"A wise man need not prove himself."

For those not into Chinese culture, basically it is saying a wise man, one who knows what is real, does not need to prove himself when he speaks of these things, because reality will prove the point.

It speaks volumes when people find out for themselves as opposed to someone trying to explain it to them.


Steve
 
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Ok, I heard back from Phil Fabien, Engine Performance Development, V-Engine Engineering.

On the issue of deposits forming on the valves due to no gasoline with detergent being sprayed on the backside of the valve in a direct injected engine he said the following. He stated that fuel washes away deposits on a port injected engine, and that EGR can increase deposit formation, however, the 3.5L EcoBoost engine does not have an EGR system. Ford uses intake and exhaust cam phasing to provide internal EGR to the cylinders.

In regards to Jalopnik claiming Ford used water injection and that is why the valves are so clean he said there will always be people who do not believe what they have accomplished and how they explain they made that accomplishment. Basically, he said because of this they do not plan to address each one of the doubters.

In my opinion he is invoking one of my favorite Chinese proverbs:

"A wise man need not prove himself."

For those not into Chinese culture, basically it is saying a wise man, one who knows what is real, does not need to prove himself when he speaks of these things, because reality will prove the point.

It speaks volumes when people find out for themselves as opposed to someone trying to explain it to them.


Steve


Good info, thanks for posting. I still would like to see how they hold up in real world day to day use, but I think Ford's got it!

I'd love to hear what he has to say about Ford engines that "specify" a 20 grade oil and the testing they went through to prove it was up to the task. Yes they still have engines that spec other grades, I'm talking in particular about engines that Ford makes that call for 20 grade oil. I'd love to hear from someone like him, it might help to put that debate to bed.
 
Good information, though it doesn't explain the results currently seen in the BG Fuel Test on the 3.5L Taurus Ecoboost engine.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Thanks DT466E_bus. I found at Youtube that a lot of views of my video came from here, and I have used info from this site several times in the past, so thought I would come in and offer what I can on the EcoBoost engine used in the torture test.


Steve


1001hobbies,
Thanks for all your work with this thread. Thanks again for sending out e-mails to those in the know. As for the "Chinese proverb" maybe XM understands that wise proverb themselves in not replying to wear claims by other companies.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Thanks DT466E_bus. I found at Youtube that a lot of views of my video came from here, and I have used info from this site several times in the past, so thought I would come in and offer what I can on the EcoBoost engine used in the torture test.


Steve


1001hobbies,
Thanks for all your work with this thread. Thanks again for sending out e-mails to those in the know. As for the "Chinese proverb" maybe XM understands that wise proverb themselves in not replying to wear claims by other companies.


Great point tig!
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Good information, though it doesn't explain the results currently seen in the BG Fuel Test on the 3.5L Taurus Ecoboost engine.
21.gif



Please provide a link to this test. The "BG" I know is Barry Grant, so I am sure it is someone else since he deals with carbs.


Thanks,
Steve
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Thanks DT466E_bus. I found at Youtube that a lot of views of my video came from here, and I have used info from this site several times in the past, so thought I would come in and offer what I can on the EcoBoost engine used in the torture test.


Steve


1001hobbies,
Thanks for all your work with this thread. Thanks again for sending out e-mails to those in the know. As for the "Chinese proverb" maybe XM understands that wise proverb themselves in not replying to wear claims by other companies.



I'm happy to be able to help where I can. Ok, who is XM?
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Ok, I heard back from Phil Fabien, Engine Performance Development, V-Engine Engineering.

On the issue of deposits forming on the valves due to no gasoline with detergent being sprayed on the backside of the valve in a direct injected engine he said the following. He stated that fuel washes away deposits on a port injected engine, and that EGR can increase deposit formation, however, the 3.5L EcoBoost engine does not have an EGR system. Ford uses intake and exhaust cam phasing to provide internal EGR to the cylinders.

In regards to Jalopnik claiming Ford used water injection and that is why the valves are so clean he said there will always be people who do not believe what they have accomplished and how they explain they made that accomplishment. Basically, he said because of this they do not plan to address each one of the doubters.

In my opinion he is invoking one of my favorite Chinese proverbs:

"A wise man need not prove himself."

For those not into Chinese culture, basically it is saying a wise man, one who knows what is real, does not need to prove himself when he speaks of these things, because reality will prove the point.

It speaks volumes when people find out for themselves as opposed to someone trying to explain it to them.


Steve


Good info, thanks for posting. I still would like to see how they hold up in real world day to day use, but I think Ford's got it!

I'd love to hear what he has to say about Ford engines that "specify" a 20 grade oil and the testing they went through to prove it was up to the task. Yes they still have engines that spec other grades, I'm talking in particular about engines that Ford makes that call for 20 grade oil. I'd love to hear from someone like him, it might help to put that debate to bed.



I am sure there are more knowledgeable people here than me when it comes to oil, but my understanding of the reason for going to 20 weight oil has to do with tighter bearing clearances to help eliminate unwanted movement, other than desired axis movement, in order to provide more fuel efficiency and reduce wear for improved endurance.


Steve
 
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Good information, though it doesn't explain the results currently seen in the BG Fuel Test on the 3.5L Taurus Ecoboost engine.
21.gif



Please provide a link to this test. The "BG" I know is Barry Grant, so I am sure it is someone else since he deals with carbs.


Thanks,
Steve
With excellent pics.

http://www.bgfueltest.com/
 
Thanks for the link. It is an interesting read.

I see they have a product to sell and that makes their presentation less than unbiased.

The intake valve on their engine has more deposits on it at the same number of miles actually driven with the torture test engine. The torture test engine was driven from Kansas City, Missouri to Oregon, then to Florida, then to Nevada, then to the location where it was switched to a race truck. That's about 10,000 actual on the road miles for the Ford test engine, after it did 300 hours of beating on the dyno. Also add in the work it did in Oregon and the 24 hours (another more than 1,000 miles) of driving at the raceway in Miami and the intake valve that came out of the test engine, as well as the combustion chambers, still looks better than BG's engine.

Oh, there was another more than 1,000 miles raced in BAJA. So at over 12,000 miles actually driven Ford's torture engine valve looked better than BG's at almost 10,000 miles.


If the testing that BG shows was done by an independent 3rd party, without a product to sell, I would be concerned about the results. I was at the show when Ford disassembled their engine within 25 feet of me and I liked what I saw.

I will still watch for anyone that does a testing with this engine, as long as they are independent, or Ford.



Steve
 
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Part throttle running is the culprit ,I suspect. Running the engine hard and often (Italian tune-up) clears that stuff up, most likely
my2c
Jorge
 
Originally Posted By: flacoman
Part throttle running is the culprit ,I suspect. Running the engine hard and often (Italian tune-up) clears that stuff up, most likely
my2c
Jorge



Italian tune-up, I love that!!

I had the same thought that you did, but EGR flows mostly while the vehicle is at a cruising speed, like on a highway, but there is no EGR on this engine. I don't know what the story is on PCV though.


Steve
 
I'd be interested to know more about the engine's PCV system. Does it have one, in the standard sense, or have they done something to eliminate that as well. I'm shopping for trucks now and am leaning toward a F150, but am trying to decide on a 3.5L Ecoboost or the 5.0L. I will be buying this spring or early summer, so I've got a little time to make up my mind.
 
Direct injection engines from virtually any manufacturer are showing issues with valve deposits.

While B&G does have their axe to grind it is not just with Ford designs. They perceive a market opportunity.

There is no EGR on any engine that has enough valve overlap. My 6.1 liter V8 has none while the 5.7 comes with it. Since Ford can vary the valve timing they can literally simulate EGR at will by rotating the cams.
 
Torture? Who are they kidding? I know a few soccer moms that'll kill that engine in no time.
 
I was at the Chicago Auto Show Monday night. Got a really close look at the engine. Here is some high-res shots I took.

I have even higher res shots if you want to zoom in. And well the rest of the auto show pretty much covered.

Chicago Auto Show 2011

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I asked a Ford rep what oil was used. He didn't give me a direct answer. Just went on about how ford uses quality synthetic blend Motorcraft blah blah... Then the boss 302 V8 Dyno test fired up!
 
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Thanks DT466E_bus. I found at Youtube that a lot of views of my video came from here, and I have used info from this site several times in the past, so thought I would come in and offer what I can on the EcoBoost engine used in the torture test.


Steve


1001hobbies,
Thanks for all your work with this thread. Thanks again for sending out e-mails to those in the know. As for the "Chinese proverb" maybe XM understands that wise proverb themselves in not replying to wear claims by other companies.



I'm happy to be able to help where I can. Ok, who is XM?


That would be Exxon Mobil.
 
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