2018 Q50 Red Sport 400 Red Line 0w-40 6,300 miles; ongoing UOAs

[nighamreuki]

Going back to Castrol for at least a few interval @6K miles
would be nice for Iron and Silver to drop

 

[Revving2Redline]

Iron went up because the Redline is trying to clean up the previous oci. It's common and if you look into it, you will see others have spoken about this.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Thank you for posting your UOA. I am impressed with how Liqui Moly 5W-40 performed, but I am even more impressed with Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40 because it sheared less than a 5W-40. It's really good oil, I run it in my Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4L GDI engine. The boutique oils didn't do great, though AMSOIL did better considering the amount of fuel dilution. I judge the fuel dilution by the flashpoint, as Blackstone doesn't measure it, they just infer it by ... the flashpoint, and it's a guestimate at best.

RedLine was supposed to be tough as nails and made exactly to stand up to high heat and shearing. The way it presents itself, not so much.

Looks like you found your oil, as Castrol EDGE 0W-40 is a heck of an oil. Keep using it, as it performs well in your twin-turbo V6. Nice ride by the way!

 

[dnewton3]

Iron went up because the Redline is trying to clean up the previous oci. It's common and if you look into it, you will see others have spoken about this.

I disagree. To say that Redline is "cleaning up" previous stuff is to infer that the previous oil was incapable of doing it's job. Not one of these oils he's used is a cheap lube; they are all essentially high-end premium lubes. So which ones of these do you consider to be leaving stuff behind? How do you know it was the Amsoil and not one of the other brands? Just because Fe is high, it is your presumption that the oil is "cleaning up" previous Fe and not simply having a higher wear rate? Under your presumption, did the Amsoil clean up from the Castrol? Did the dealer fill at 20k miles clean up from the previous OCI? Your logic is flawed.

I will make an emphasis here ...
THERE IS NOWHERE ENOUGH DATA TO CONCLUDE THAT ANY OIL IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER IN THIS UOA SERIES. There is zero ability (and I mean zilch, nada, zippo) credibility to any claim that one oil is doing the job superior to another. Data sets of sample size "1" are nothing but anecdotal evidence and are a testimony to one's ignorance of how "normal" variation occurs.

 

[Pablo]

I disagree. To say that Redline is "cleaning up" previous stuff is to infer that the previous oil was incapable of doing it's job. Not one of these oils he's used is a cheap lube; they are all essentially high-end premium lubes. So which ones of these do you consider to be leaving stuff behind? How do you know it was the Amsoil and not one of the other brands? Just because Fe is high, it is your presumption that the oil is "cleaning up" previous Fe and not simply having a higher wear rate? Under your presumption, did the Amsoil clean up from the Castrol? Did the dealer fill at 20k miles clean up from the previous OCI? Your logic is flawed.

I will make an emphasis here ...
THERE IS NOWHERE ENOUGH DATA TO CONCLUDE THAT ANY OIL IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER IN THIS UOA SERIES. There is zero ability (and I mean zilch, nada, zippo) credibility to any claim that one oil is doing the job superior to another. Data sets of sample size "1" are nothing but anecdotal evidence and are a testimony to one's ignorance of how "normal" variation occurs.

Jan 15 and we already have a POST OF THE YEAR!

I can draw zero conclusion other than the mantra we have learned in the last 21 years. Using single use UOA's is NOT how one chooses a motor oil.

I will also add, looking for a reason (whatever reason) to bag on a certain brand name of oil is not logical nor scientific.

 

[Artem]

Iron went up because the Redline is trying to clean up the previous oci. It's common and if you look into it, you will see others have spoken about this.

How much leftover varnish is there at 40,000 miles using high end synthetics at 5,6,7k intervals? That block is SPOTLESS inside.

Also, according to that logic, using the redline oil a second fill will result in a drop in iron and that’s not what we see in UOA from members who use Redline over and over.

 

[madeej11]

Iron went up because the Redline is trying to clean up the previous oci. It's common and if you look into it, you will see others have spoken about this.

Ridiculous assumption as others have basically inferred. It seems you're trying to defend the Redline's performance.

 

[nighamreuki]

Iron went up because the Redline is trying to clean up the previous oci. It's common and if you look into it, you will see others have spoken about this.

I'm trying to find some logic in that statement and I can't, especially with prior history and UOA available

 

[Johnmpb]

I disagree. To say that Redline is "cleaning up" previous stuff is to infer that the previous oil was incapable of doing it's job. Not one of these oils he's used is a cheap lube; they are all essentially high-end premium lubes. So which ones of these do you consider to be leaving stuff behind? How do you know it was the Amsoil and not one of the other brands? Just because Fe is high, it is your presumption that the oil is "cleaning up" previous Fe and not simply having a higher wear rate? Under your presumption, did the Amsoil clean up from the Castrol? Did the dealer fill at 20k miles clean up from the previous OCI? Your logic is flawed.

I will make an emphasis here ...
THERE IS NOWHERE ENOUGH DATA TO CONCLUDE THAT ANY OIL IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER IN THIS UOA SERIES. There is zero ability (and I mean zilch, nada, zippo) credibility to any claim that one oil is doing the job superior to another. Data sets of sample size "1" are nothing but anecdotal evidence and are a testimony to one's ignorance of how "normal" variation occurs.

Well said. Don’t know why people just spew random things like it’s a fact

 

[nighamreuki]

Thank you for posting your UOA. I am impressed with how Liqui Moly 5W-40 performed, but I am even more impressed with Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40 because it sheared less than a 5W-40. It's really good oil, I run it in my Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4L GDI engine. The boutique oils didn't do great, though AMSOIL did better considering the amount of fuel dilution. I judge the fuel dilution by the flashpoint, as Blackstone doesn't measure it, they just infer it by ... the flashpoint, and it's a guestimate at best.

RedLine was supposed to be tough as nails and made exactly to stand up to high heat and shearing. The way it presents itself, not so much.

Looks like you found your oil, as Castrol EDGE 0W-40 is a heck of an oil. Keep using it, as it performs well in your twin-turbo V6. Nice ride by the way!

id agree with you if LM didn't have silver @ 17!!! and with the shortest interval

Running Castrol this time, and just ordered Schaeffer supreme 9000 0w-40 for next time

 

[Deleted member 89374]

id agree with you if LM didn't have silver @ 17!!! and with the shortest interval

Following this logic, you should have have stuck to dealer bulk, which I assume is 0W-20, the recommended viscosity for your engine according to the owner's manual.

Running Castrol this time, and just ordered Schaeffer supreme 9000 0w-40 for next time

Schaeffer's 0W-40 is not an ACEA A3/B4 class motor oil, but rather similar to AMASOIL SS 0W-40 and PUP 0W-40. It's a mid-SAPS 0W-40, but without any of the European approvals that have stringent requirements. If you want something comparable and mid-SAPS in 0W-40 viscosity, then Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 might be more appropriate. Anyway, good luck.

said. Don’t know why people just spew random things like it’s a fact

And yet... While you're praising @dnewton3 for his statement, you're doing exactly what he recommended against by comparing vastly different motor oils and drawing conclusions based on a cheap UOA.

It's one thing to compare viscosity retention, as I did, and infer wear from the UOA, as you did. Unless you perform comprehensive teardowns at given intervals, you won't have accurate wear results. To do a meaningful wear comparison, you have to run the same lubricant for several hundreds of thousand of miles, tear the engine down, take measurements, then start from scratch with a different lubricant.

Could you please post a picture of the RedLine 0W-40 container if you still have it, along with a picture of the date code? When did you purchase it? The additive package looks exceedingly weird for RedLine. I know they are reformulating their motor oils, but they haven't updated their website yet with the typical properties for the new formulations. I somewhat doubt they would take such a drastic departure from the lubes they sold for years. Then again, you never know.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

@Crowley Did you ever ask "the boys" what they ran in the Impala?

 

[edyvw]

I know one thing, that engine beat the loving s… out of that Redline.

 

[nighamreuki]

Following this logic, you should have have stuck to dealer bulk, which I assume is 0W-20, the recommended viscosity for your engine according to the owner's manual.



Schaeffer's 0W-40 is not an ACEA A3/B4 class motor oil, but rather similar to AMASOIL SS 0W-40 and PUP 0W-40. It's a mid-SAPS 0W-40, but without any of the European approvals that have stringent requirements. If you want something comparable and mid-SAPS in 0W-40 viscosity, then Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 might be more appropriate. Anyway, good luck.



And yet... While you're praising @dnewton3 for his statement, you're doing exactly what he recommended against by comparing vastly different motor oils and drawing conclusions based on a cheap UOA.

It's one thing to compare viscosity retention, as I did, and infer wear from the UOA, as you did. Unless you perform comprehensive teardowns at given intervals, you won't have accurate wear results. To do a meaningful wear comparison, you have to run the same lubricant for several hundreds of thousand of miles, tear the engine down, take measurements, then start from scratch with a different lubricant.

Could you please post a picture of the RedLine 0W-40 container if you still have it, along with a picture of the date code? When did you purchase it? The additive package looks exceedingly weird for RedLine. I know they are reformulating their motor oils, but they haven't updated their website yet with the typical properties for the new formulations. I somewhat doubt they would take such a drastic departure from the lubes they sold for years. Then again, you never know.

Manual gives few options for Oil, 0-30. through 5w-40. if was driving like my mom id stick with 0w-20 because that weight prioritizes fuel econ. you can see that Iron and Copper were the highest with that oil with shortest interval.
I'll Run Schaeffer's for 5K and see how it wears, i had pretty good results with it on my VQ37(i know NA vs turbo). all 4 latest were same same oil. trade the car in with 133K miles, and it ran like the first day

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Manual gives few options for Oil, 0-30. through 5w-40.

No, it doesn't. Also, there are several types of 0W-20, with the API SP Dexos 1G2 approved lubes probably being the least desirable for your engine. Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20, Castrol EDGE Euro C5 0W-20 (hard to find in the US), Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20 (MB 229.71 approved and ACEA C5 compliant) are all great options. In fact, Castrol EDGE Euro C5 and EDGE EP are most likely one and the same.

Anyway, if you want some strong candidates that are properly rated, this should be your shortlist. I'm sorry for any that I missed:

• Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40 - you already used this one and it held its viscosity well
• Mobil 1 FS 5W-40 - it's like the Mobil1 FS 0W-40 but holds up better in a turbo
• Pennzoil Platinum Euro/Quaker State Euro 5W-40 (API SP, it's essentially rebranded Shell Helix Ultra SP)
• Motul 8100 XCess 5W-40
• Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30
• Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40
• Valvoline XL-III 5W-30

Either way, NISSAN is very clear on the VR30DDTT when it comes to the recommended lubricant:

• Genuine “Nissan Motor Oil 0W-20 SN” is recommended.
• If the above motor oil is not available, use an equivalent motor oil that matches the above grade and viscosity. For additional information, see “Engine oil and oil filter recommendation” (P.10-8).

Indeed, they allow several viscosities carrying the MB229.5 approval for their Daimler sourced 2.0L turbo engine. If it was my engine, under warranty, I'd just run an MB229.71 approved 0W-20. And if I was driving it really hard or taking it to the track, then an MB229.5 5W-40 should fit the bill nicely. There is no reason to overspend on lube. Both of these lubricants can be had for exceedingly decent prices.

I'll Run Schaeffer's for 5K and see how it wears, i had pretty good results with it on my VQ37(i know NA vs turbo). all 4 latest were same same oil. trade the car in with 133K miles, and it ran like the first day

Once again, Schaeffer's is basically aimed at Dodge/RAM customers and carries the same Chrysler MS "approvals" as PUP 0W-40. It has a NOACK of around 12%. This oil is not formulated for Turbo GDI engines. However, it is your engine, so do what you please with it.

 

[nighamreuki]

No, it doesn't. Also, there are several types of 0W-20, with the API SP Dexos 1G2 approved lubes probably being the least desirable for your engine. Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20, Castrol EDGE Euro C5 0W-20 (hard to find in the US), Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20 (MB 229.71 approved and ACEA C5 compliant) are all great options. In fact, Castrol EDGE Euro C5 and EDGE EP are most likely one and the same.

Anyway, if you want some strong candidates that are properly rated, this should be your shortlist. I'm sorry for any that I missed:

• Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40 - you already used this one and it held its viscosity well
• Mobil 1 FS 5W-40 - it's like the Mobil1 FS 0W-40 but holds up better in a turbo
• Pennzoil Platinum Euro/Quaker State Euro 5W-40 (API SP, it's essentially rebranded Shell Helix Ultra SP)
• Motul 8100 XCess 5W-40
• Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30
• Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40
• Valvoline XL-III 5W-30

Either way, NISSAN is very clear on the VR30DDTT when it comes to the recommended lubricant:

• Genuine “Nissan Motor Oil 0W-20 SN” is recommended.
• If the above motor oil is not available, use an equivalent motor oil that matches the above grade and viscosity. For additional information, see “Engine oil and oil filter recommendation” (P.10-8).

Indeed, they allow several viscosities carrying the MB229.5 approval for their Daimler sourced 2.0L turbo engine. If it was my engine, under warranty, I'd just run an MB229.71 approved 0W-20. And if I was driving it really hard or taking it to the track, then an MB229.5 5W-40 should fit the bill nicely. There is no reason to overspend on lube. Both of these lubricants can be had for exceedingly decent prices.

View attachment 84645


Once again, Schaeffer's is basically aimed at Dodge/RAM customers and carries the same Chrysler MS "approvals" as PUP 0W-40. It has a NOACK of around 12%. This oil is not formulated for Turbo GDI engines. However, it is your engine, so do what you please with it.

you were close, but what you said only applies to the MB 2.0 4 cylinder, not VR30, if anything one can look at the requirements for GTR VR38 to get the appropriate oil.

in the manual itself it says to use "only engine oils that meet the American Petroleum Institute (API) certification or International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) certification and SAE viscosity standard" and to recommends use "energy conserving oil in order to improve fuel economy" ie. 20 weight

 

[PoorMans180SX]

Is this the professional or high performance series?

 

[kschachn]

Manual gives few options for Oil, 0-30. through 5w-40. if was driving like my mom id stick with 0w-20 because that weight prioritizes fuel econ. you can see that Iron and Copper were the highest with that oil with shortest interval.
I'll Run Schaeffer's for 5K and see how it wears, i had pretty good results with it on my VQ37(i know NA vs turbo). all 4 latest were same same oil. trade the car in with 133K miles, and it ran like the first day

There it goes again.

And again, it's not about the oil no matter what you think you're teasing out of a $30 spectrographic analysis.

2018 Q50 Red Sport 400 Red Line 0w-40 6,300 miles; ongoing UOAs

Going back to Castrol for at least a few interval @6K miles would be nice for Iron and Silver to drop

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Deleted member 89374]

There it goes again.

And again, it's not about the oil no matter what you think you're teasing out of a $30 spectrographic analysis.

I made my share of mistakes and wrong assumptions. My interest in lubricants stems from wanting to do better maintenance on our vehicles so they last longer. Given the past and current economic situation, I want to get everything I can out of them. The only way to learn was to read past threads that longtime, established members of this forum participated in over the years.

I think it's becoming a recurring theme that someone posts a UOA and expects the members of this community to validate their conclusions. That won't happen.

Though I can't fault the OP 100% for his conclusions because Blackstone themselves and other oil analysis labs push this narrative that somehow you can conclude the wear that's going on in any of your powertrain components based on a $38 oil analysis. Or in his case, it was $58 since he asked for TBN if the price didn't go up, like with everything these days. At the end of the day, they are a business making money off people and businesses who want their oil samples analyzed, so they're incentivized to market themselves to everyone, even if it means practicing a bit of guerilla marketing.

I concluded that Castrol EDGE 0W-40 held its viscosity better than other motor oils in this UOA series. Even my conclusion could be 100% wrong because we don't know how each sample was taken under what conditions. Was the engine briefly started, the vehicle moved into a garage, stoped, and lifted? That right there could skew the flashpoint, fuel dilution, and viscosity numbers.

you were close, but what you said only applies to the MB 2.0 4 cylinder, not VR30, if anything one can look at the requirements for GTR VR38 to get the appropriate oil.

Sir, you may want to re-read my comments again. I posted that screenshot straight from the 2018 Q50 owner's manual, along with a shortlist of excellent and highly available lubricants. The GTR VR38 specifies Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 for street use and Motul NISMO Competition type 2193E 5W40 for track use. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and 5W-40 would be excellent choices. Once again, the manufacturer recommends only 0W-20 for your engine, with a wider range of options for the Daimler-Benz sourced 2.0T engine.

Bellow are the specs for the Schaeffer 9000 0W-40 lube. Please look very closely what they say. Once again, it is your engine, so of course you will do as you see fit.

 

[nighamreuki]

Is this the professional or high performance series?

the $12 something one per quart