Bud_One
Site Donor 2025
4 Runner
2014 Toyota 4Runner or Dodge Durago
- Thread starter ikolbyi
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Originally Posted By: strongt
Lol. look at the date for that article above. It was posted on Jun 5th 2012. The Dodge brand is going to be around for alot longer then 2016.
Even the folks at the fanboi site, allpar think it's going away:
http://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/C21/2016.html
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/10/wagoneer-vs-durango-vs-caravan
I think, despite what people think Dodge will be going the way of the dodo bird in the future. No need for them and their cars can be wrapped up into Chrysler.
Lol. look at the date for that article above. It was posted on Jun 5th 2012. The Dodge brand is going to be around for alot longer then 2016.
Even the folks at the fanboi site, allpar think it's going away:
http://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/C21/2016.html
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/10/wagoneer-vs-durango-vs-caravan
I think, despite what people think Dodge will be going the way of the dodo bird in the future. No need for them and their cars can be wrapped up into Chrysler.
Originally Posted By: ikolbyi
I narrowed down my search for a new vehicle to these two:
Toyota 4Runner Limited
Dodge Durango Citadel
I generally agree with others that the 4Runner is probably the vehicle to get. However, I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding of some of the AWD systems involved here. The Durango Citadel doesn't have a Haldex AWD system (neither does your wife's Pilot, by the way). The Durango R/T and Citadel both come with manual 2-speed transfer cases that can lock the front and rear axles together. It uses an MP3022 transfer case; you have four operating modes: 2WD only, 4WD auto, 4WD low range, and Neutral. You would be able to put this vehicle in 4WD low and have full locking of the front and rear axles.
Although your wife's Pilot wasn't the subject of your thread, I feel compelled to recommend that you take it to the dealer; it sounds like something's amiss with the AWD system. It uses the VTM-4 system, which both proactively and reactively engages the rear wheels to assist with traction. There is also a VTM-4 lock button on the dash that would operate similar to a "4WD high" mode in a manual transfer case: it locks the rear wheels to the propeller shaft (which spins at transmission output speed). If these functions aren't working properly, I would take it to the dealer to have it inspected. Many new Pilots also come with Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires on 18" wheels. These are decidedly NOT optimized for use in snow. Replacing these street-spec tires would certainly increase her Pilot's snow capability.
We have a 2005 MDX with this same system and it's an animal in the snow. As long as the depth isn't 10" and you don't high-center the vehicle, it plows through anything.
I narrowed down my search for a new vehicle to these two:
Toyota 4Runner Limited
Dodge Durango Citadel
I generally agree with others that the 4Runner is probably the vehicle to get. However, I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding of some of the AWD systems involved here. The Durango Citadel doesn't have a Haldex AWD system (neither does your wife's Pilot, by the way). The Durango R/T and Citadel both come with manual 2-speed transfer cases that can lock the front and rear axles together. It uses an MP3022 transfer case; you have four operating modes: 2WD only, 4WD auto, 4WD low range, and Neutral. You would be able to put this vehicle in 4WD low and have full locking of the front and rear axles.
Although your wife's Pilot wasn't the subject of your thread, I feel compelled to recommend that you take it to the dealer; it sounds like something's amiss with the AWD system. It uses the VTM-4 system, which both proactively and reactively engages the rear wheels to assist with traction. There is also a VTM-4 lock button on the dash that would operate similar to a "4WD high" mode in a manual transfer case: it locks the rear wheels to the propeller shaft (which spins at transmission output speed). If these functions aren't working properly, I would take it to the dealer to have it inspected. Many new Pilots also come with Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires on 18" wheels. These are decidedly NOT optimized for use in snow. Replacing these street-spec tires would certainly increase her Pilot's snow capability.
We have a 2005 MDX with this same system and it's an animal in the snow. As long as the depth isn't 10" and you don't high-center the vehicle, it plows through anything.
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2014/05/new-dodges-srt-to-be-part-of-dodge
http://powernationtv.com/post/chrysler-group-announces-leadership-changes
Here's some links from this year. These are official.
The link from it guy even says it's speculation...
http://powernationtv.com/post/chrysler-group-announces-leadership-changes
Here's some links from this year. These are official.
The link from it guy even says it's speculation...
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Even the folks at the fanboi site, allpar think it's going away
Are they the same kids who in 2006 swore that GM was going to buy Chrysler and we were going to see a re-skinned Wrangler released as the Hummer H4?
Yeah... don't believe everything you read on the interwebs.
Even the folks at the fanboi site, allpar think it's going away
Are they the same kids who in 2006 swore that GM was going to buy Chrysler and we were going to see a re-skinned Wrangler released as the Hummer H4?
Yeah... don't believe everything you read on the interwebs.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
...
Although your wife's Pilot wasn't the subject of your thread, I feel compelled to recommend that you take it to the dealer; it sounds like something's amiss with the AWD system. It uses the VTM-4 system, which both proactively and reactively engages the rear wheels to assist with traction. There is also a VTM-4 lock button on the dash that would operate similar to a "4WD high" mode in a manual transfer case: it locks the rear wheels to the propeller shaft (which spins at transmission output speed). If these functions aren't working properly
...
http://mypage.siu.edu/jeepster/vtm4.html
From the article:
"Cruise or Coast: When in cruise or coast mode, the VTM-4 reduces the torque transfer to the rear wheels to zero in order to improve fuel efficiency and driveability. "
" Mechanical Testing:
2WD: In 2WD, the clutches are NOT engaged and each wheel should spin freely by hand while on jack stands.
4WD: When activated, the electro-magnetic coils in the VTM-4 force the ramps in the thrust plate and pole piece to separate with considerable force when the wheel or ring gear carrier is rotated."
The Pilot is a 2WD vehicle unless it determines slippage then engages the rear wheels. Unless I engage the Vlock button that locks the rear but that is only available up to 12mph then it automatically disengages. Another words only useful when you are stuck and not for actual driving. This has been experienced when driving. Regarding the tires traction, I will hold comment until I replace them with something I am more familiar with (I generally prefer Continental or Yokohama cross-terrains).
I do not know what the Durango AWD system has, I could not find any information regarding it.
The 4Runner Limited is the only 4Runner model that has an AWD system (with locking diff), the SR5 and Trail are equipped with part-time 4WD traditional system.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen
* http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1105_4wd_vs_awd/viewall.html
...
Although your wife's Pilot wasn't the subject of your thread, I feel compelled to recommend that you take it to the dealer; it sounds like something's amiss with the AWD system. It uses the VTM-4 system, which both proactively and reactively engages the rear wheels to assist with traction. There is also a VTM-4 lock button on the dash that would operate similar to a "4WD high" mode in a manual transfer case: it locks the rear wheels to the propeller shaft (which spins at transmission output speed). If these functions aren't working properly
...
http://mypage.siu.edu/jeepster/vtm4.html
From the article:
"Cruise or Coast: When in cruise or coast mode, the VTM-4 reduces the torque transfer to the rear wheels to zero in order to improve fuel efficiency and driveability. "
" Mechanical Testing:
2WD: In 2WD, the clutches are NOT engaged and each wheel should spin freely by hand while on jack stands.
4WD: When activated, the electro-magnetic coils in the VTM-4 force the ramps in the thrust plate and pole piece to separate with considerable force when the wheel or ring gear carrier is rotated."
The Pilot is a 2WD vehicle unless it determines slippage then engages the rear wheels. Unless I engage the Vlock button that locks the rear but that is only available up to 12mph then it automatically disengages. Another words only useful when you are stuck and not for actual driving. This has been experienced when driving. Regarding the tires traction, I will hold comment until I replace them with something I am more familiar with (I generally prefer Continental or Yokohama cross-terrains).
I do not know what the Durango AWD system has, I could not find any information regarding it.
The 4Runner Limited is the only 4Runner model that has an AWD system (with locking diff), the SR5 and Trail are equipped with part-time 4WD traditional system.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen
* http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1105_4wd_vs_awd/viewall.html
My manager at work bought a new 4Runner ten years ago. She drove that thing EVERYWHERE and had about 350,000 on it when she gave it to her son.
That always impressed me. Get the 4Runner.
That always impressed me. Get the 4Runner.
This is a post I wrote on our MDX (with the same VTM-4 system), in which I said:
"Although not a review of them specifically, I couldn't be happier with the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires we have on it. They give a large "beefy" feel to the drive. They handle fast mountain curves extremely well, and their grip on the snow (though obviously aided by the AWD system) is tenacious."
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2321840&page=1
I bet your Pilot will perform much better with better tires on it.
"Although not a review of them specifically, I couldn't be happier with the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires we have on it. They give a large "beefy" feel to the drive. They handle fast mountain curves extremely well, and their grip on the snow (though obviously aided by the AWD system) is tenacious."
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2321840&page=1
I bet your Pilot will perform much better with better tires on it.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
This is a post I wrote on our MDX (with the same VTM-4 system), in which I said:
"Although not a review of them specifically, I couldn't be happier with the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires we have on it. They give a large "beefy" feel to the drive. They handle fast mountain curves extremely well, and their grip on the snow (though obviously aided by the AWD system) is tenacious."
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2321840&page=1
I bet your Pilot will perform much better with better tires on it.
I had the exact same tires on my former 2004 Toyota Highlander and I would agree with your experience. The OEM Toyo 'sneakers' fitted on the vehicle were horrible but those Michelin Cross Terrain tires yielded excellent traction on the Toyota Highlander. My only complaint is those tires made the ride feel spongy. When they worn out I replaced them with Yokohama Geolanders, I loved the ride of the Yoks, but I did sacrifice some snow traction compared to Mich-Cross Terrain.
This is a post I wrote on our MDX (with the same VTM-4 system), in which I said:
"Although not a review of them specifically, I couldn't be happier with the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires we have on it. They give a large "beefy" feel to the drive. They handle fast mountain curves extremely well, and their grip on the snow (though obviously aided by the AWD system) is tenacious."
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2321840&page=1
I bet your Pilot will perform much better with better tires on it.
I had the exact same tires on my former 2004 Toyota Highlander and I would agree with your experience. The OEM Toyo 'sneakers' fitted on the vehicle were horrible but those Michelin Cross Terrain tires yielded excellent traction on the Toyota Highlander. My only complaint is those tires made the ride feel spongy. When they worn out I replaced them with Yokohama Geolanders, I loved the ride of the Yoks, but I did sacrifice some snow traction compared to Mich-Cross Terrain.
So...our side discussion of your Pilot--um--aside...
Are you closer regarding your 4Runner-Durango decision? I like them both. I like the Durango because of its independent suspension and 3rd row seating. I like the 4Runner for more demanding off-road conditions. I have to agree with an earlier poster that Toyota's truck styling has become a little "cartooney". The Durango certainly has an all-American "swagger" to it.
Are you closer regarding your 4Runner-Durango decision? I like them both. I like the Durango because of its independent suspension and 3rd row seating. I like the 4Runner for more demanding off-road conditions. I have to agree with an earlier poster that Toyota's truck styling has become a little "cartooney". The Durango certainly has an all-American "swagger" to it.
The Dodge definitely wins the beauty contest, no doubt.
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