2013 Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi OCI

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: dtru
If you want to get offensive about it I will just leave the exact quote from them and be done.

"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"



So those are high moly levels.

I suggest looking at mobils line,you know,the ones you said have lower moly levels.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dtru
If you want to get offensive about it I will just leave the exact quote from them and be done.

"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"



So those are high moly levels.

I suggest looking at mobils line,you know,the ones you said have lower moly levels.


Ok, these are from a quick search.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758101
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2708967
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758299
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2547400
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3161062/1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3339808/Mobil_1_0W-20_Extended_Perform
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243763

 

[CaspianM]

I would use PUltra or Castrol Edge (gold bottle) extended service. PYB has a good of Moly as well.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: dtru

The Hemi tick is present on even brand new cars on the lot.

There is no service bulletin for it either.




There are two Star Bulletins that have been published: S1209000001, S1309000021

Look 'em up.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dtru

The Hemi tick is present on even brand new cars on the lot.

There is no service bulletin for it either.




There are two Star Bulletins that have been published: S1209000001, S1309000021

Look 'em up.




Yes but even after they take the heads off the tap is still present, sometimes quieter, then sometimes it comes back.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dtru
If you want to get offensive about it I will just leave the exact quote from them and be done.

"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"



So those are high moly levels.

I suggest looking at mobils line,you know,the ones you said have lower moly levels.


Ok, these are from a quick search.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758101
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2708967
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758299
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2547400
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3161062/1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3339808/Mobil_1_0W-20_Extended_Perform
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243763


So you post the products that use titanium. Titanium is used in place of moly. As a friction modifier.

The M1 line uses tri-nuclear moly so it needs less.

You post mobils bottom barrel stuff as though it applies.


You make me laugh.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dtru
If you want to get offensive about it I will just leave the exact quote from them and be done.

"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"



So those are high moly levels.

I suggest looking at mobils line,you know,the ones you said have lower moly levels.


Ok, these are from a quick search.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758101
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2708967
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758299
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2547400
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3161062/1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3339808/Mobil_1_0W-20_Extended_Perform
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243763


So you post the products that use titanium. Titanium is used in place of moly. As a friction modifier.

The M1 line uses tri-nuclear moly so it needs less.

You post mobils bottom barrel stuff as though it applies.


You make me laugh.


I posted every one that I saw in my google search, and each one was less... Just like it was when I originally searched a year ago.

Trolls make me laugh.

Instead of child like bickering comments why dont you just post the proof. I never claimed to be the oil expert and even stated that I am just relaying what SRT engineers said. Every Mobil 1 VOA I have seen has been less than the SRT branded oil and less than the Amsoil SS I have been using. Prove me wrong and I will accept it and admit it instead of making troll like comments.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: dtru
"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"



I ate dinner with the SRT engineers as a group at a track event. They are so tightly bound contractually that they cannot say ANYTHING but company dogma only. And they do not always agree.

The exact same hardware is in the 5.7 and 6.4 engines with respect to MDS AND VVT. Yet the oil spec varies from 20w to 40w depending on application.

Also, since my 6.1 has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap you might note that they once considered it track ready oil. The change to Pennzoil is "pure" politics ( pun intended).

Lighten up a bit, around here incorrect information is also offensive. Clevy is just more knowledgeable than you...

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dtru
"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"



I ate dinner with the SRT engineers as a group at a track event. They are so tightly bound contractually that they cannot say ANYTHING but company dogma only. And they do not always agree.

The exact same hardware is in the 5.7 and 6.4 engines with respect to MDS AND VVT. Yet the oil spec varies from 20w to 40w depending on application.

Also, since my 6.1 has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap you might note that they once considered it track ready oil. The change to Pennzoil is "pure" politics ( pun intended).

Lighten up a bit, around here incorrect information is also offensive. Clevy is just more knowledgeable than you...


You posted the same thing in another thread about my same comment so I will just paste my reply!

Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.

 

[dtru]

I am "light" Clevy is the one being hostile. If anyone feels that the information I posted is incorrect then say so, but dont be an [censored] about it like he did.

Yes, I understand that they once used Mobil 1, and that they once suggested mobil 1. I never disputed that and they even recommend it in the quote I posted.

I am not on some mission to dog mobil 1. I simply pointed out that the SRT engineers suggested the high moly count in the SRT/Pennzoil is beneficial to the VVT. Which is the main point I have been saying the whole time. If you feel like its purely politics and that a higher moly count has no benefit to VVT then that is your opinion, and like I said, I am going to take the info from the people who designed my car rather than internet opinions. Again, no disrespect intended.

Why Clevy is on a mission to nit pick every thing I post is beyond me.

I never claimed to be more knowledgeable than anyone and I never will.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dtru

The Hemi tick is present on even brand new cars on the lot.

There is no service bulletin for it either.




There are two Star Bulletins that have been published: S1209000001, S1309000021

Look 'em up.




Yes but even after they take the heads off the tap is still present, sometimes quieter, then sometimes it comes back.


That all depends on what they DO while the heads are off- removing the heads is just incidental to the fix. If they perform the named star bulletins, there won't be any more tick. Period. Its perfectly ridiculous to claim that "no one can figure out" why a noise in a machine happens. Yes, it may take time, and yes they were maddeningly slow to release a solid, repeatable fix, but a fix is is out there and has been for a couple of years now. The star bulletins alter valvetrain components that have excessive clearance, thus eliminating the noise.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: dtru
They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.


I am not aware that an "SRT Branded" Mobil-1 product ever existed, if you can find evidence that it did please post it. The branding only came about with Pennz Ultra SRT 0w40, after FCA changed contracted oil suppliers from XOM to SOPUS. SOPUS didn't have a synthetic 0w40 product at the time, so for a year the spec was changed to allow Pennzoil Euro 5w40, then SOPUS came out with the "SRT branded" 0w40. Which by VOA and UOA posted here, seems to be possibly a slightly inferior product both to the Euro 5w40 and to M1 0w40. Yeah, its got a little more moly (~200 PPM vs ~100 PPM- hardly earth-shattering) but less of some other components, and some people here have flat-out stated that it is the last PU product not to use GTL base-stock. Hardly makes it a big winner in my book. Sure, either one is plenty good, but I'd hardly say that PU is more "optimal" as you put it.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dtru
They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.


I am not aware that an "SRT Branded" Mobil-1 product ever existed, if you can find evidence that it did please post it. The branding only came about with Pennz Ultra SRT 0w40, after FCA changed contracted oil suppliers from XOM to SOPUS. SOPUS didn't have a synthetic 0w40 product at the time, so for a year the spec was changed to allow Pennzoil Euro 5w40, then SOPUS came out with the "SRT branded" 0w40. Which by VOA and UOA posted here, seems to be possibly a slightly inferior product both to the Euro 5w40 and to M1 0w40. Yeah, its got a little more moly (~200 PPM vs ~100 PPM- hardly earth-shattering) but less of some other components, and some people here have flat-out stated that it is the last PU product not to use GTL base-stock. Hardly makes it a big winner in my book. Sure, either one is plenty good, but I'd hardly say that PU is more "optimal" as you put it.



Yes I realized that the Mobil 1 that was used in the SRT's were not branded like they are doing with the Pennzoil.

Again for the record, I do not know why they stated that the high moly count is beneficial for the VVT function, I simply stated what the SRT engineers said.

My original statement was "Just an FYI, SRT recommends using an oil with a high moly count as it is beneficial for the VVT function. The PP will have more than the Mobile 1." Which I have been attacked on even though every bit of it is true. SRT did recommend high moly and the Pennzoil has more of it... Thats it.

Like I said before, possibly in another thread, if anyone disagrees or does not believe that the higher molly benefits VVT then thats your opinion and thats fine. I will go with what the SRT engineers said.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dtru

The Hemi tick is present on even brand new cars on the lot.

There is no service bulletin for it either.




There are two Star Bulletins that have been published: S1209000001, S1309000021

Look 'em up.




Yes but even after they take the heads off the tap is still present, sometimes quieter, then sometimes it comes back.


That all depends on what they DO while the heads are off- removing the heads is just incidental to the fix. If they perform the named star bulletins, there won't be any more tick. Period. Its perfectly ridiculous to claim that "no one can figure out" why a noise in a machine happens. Yes, it may take time, and yes they were maddeningly slow to release a solid, repeatable fix, but a fix is is out there and has been for a couple of years now. The star bulletins alter valvetrain components that have excessive clearance, thus eliminating the noise.


I was not implying that taking the heads off fixes the issue its self. Either way each one that I have read says that the sound was dampened but did not go away and on some it came back just as loud.

I will take back my statement that there is no bulletin for it because it was wrong from the get go and I knew so. What I failed to convey is that I have not seen a fix for it in all of the reading I have done. You can drive yourself crazy as many have, trying to fix the issue and in my opinion its not worth it. Most Hemi's have the tick and in the hundereds of threads I have read about it, it has never caused a real issue other than the annoying sound.

If you want to turn your vehicle in and have a tech open up the heads to try something that from what I have seen does not work, then go for it. I do not think its worth the hassle.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dtru


Again for the record, I do not know why they stated that the high moly count is beneficial for the VVT function, I simply stated what the SRT engineers said.

My original statement was "Just an FYI, SRT recommends using an oil with a high moly count as it is beneficial for the VVT function. The PP will have more than the Mobile 1." Which I have been attacked on even though every bit of it is true. SRT did recommend high moly and the Pennzoil has more of it... Thats it.

Like I said before, possibly in another thread, if anyone disagrees or does not believe that the higher molly benefits VVT then thats your opinion and thats fine. I will go with what the SRT engineers said.


Yes, but the TYPE of moly is important. Just like the fact that the SRT oil seems to not be using the newer (and superior) GTL base stocks, it may also not be using the newer Tri-Nuclear moly. If that's the case, then the Mobil product actually has more effective moly than the SRT stuff.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: dtru


Again for the record, I do not know why they stated that the high moly count is beneficial for the VVT function, I simply stated what the SRT engineers said.

My original statement was "Just an FYI, SRT recommends using an oil with a high moly count as it is beneficial for the VVT function. The PP will have more than the Mobile 1." Which I have been attacked on even though every bit of it is true. SRT did recommend high moly and the Pennzoil has more of it... Thats it.

Like I said before, possibly in another thread, if anyone disagrees or does not believe that the higher molly benefits VVT then thats your opinion and thats fine. I will go with what the SRT engineers said.


Yes, but the TYPE of moly is important. Just like the fact that the SRT oil seems to not be using the newer (and superior) GTL base stocks, it may also not be using the newer Tri-Nuclear moly. If that's the case, then the Mobil product actually has more effective moly than the SRT stuff.



That baffles me as well.
You'd think that pennZoil would be using their gtl basestocks and the tri-nuclear moly because it's an infinium product but from what I've seen I don't believe they are.
Dtru.
I'm not being hostile just to be a jerk however as I'm sure you'll soon learn this site and its members take great pride in having info that is correct so I'm sure you'll understand that when you post vvt and moly and SRT engineers saying it's important we aren't just going to say thanks. You've got to qualify that kind of comment.
And a vvt system is hydraulic and thus a friction modifier has no real function so instead of just swallowing what you say an SRT engineer told you you should have asked more questions.
I had posted a kind of apology in this thread however it's been deleted(?) so I'll say it again.
I suggest starting over and clearing your mind about what you think you know. Then you'll find learning here easier.
Holding on to the stuff which you've posted which I personally find absurd will only attract more negative attention which I'm sure you didn't join for. Stick around. We've got a great place here and welcome all,however when posting as you have you've got to qualify that stuff or you get guys like me calling you on it.
Anyways welcome to bitog.
Extraordinary claims,like moly and vvt require evidence.
So if you've got it post it,otherwise I'm sticking with SteveSRT posts.
He's the real deal when it comes to SRT and the new hemi engines. I consider his posts gospel in that regard.
And overkill is very knowledgeable and I've yet to read a post by him that was incorrect. They take the time to qualify their statements with evidence.
So if you can dig up why moly is important to the vvt in a hemi please post it. I'd love to know why a friction modifier is important for hydraulic piston actuation.
Teach me.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: dtru

If you want to turn your vehicle in and have a tech open up the heads to try something that from what I have seen does not work, then go for it. I do not think its worth the hassle.


That's something people do need to consider. All I can say is that my reading seems to indicate that the star bulletins actually *do* fix the problem. Prior to that, dealers would try new lifters, new rocker arms, or a mix of other things that might only temporarily fix the issue, if even that much.

I've never actually heard a Hemi with the true, heavy "hemi tick" that the bulletins address. Most of them have a light valve-train noise not unlike a vehicle with adjustable valve lash. That's not an actual problem- the "Hemi Tick" that needs to be addressed is a heavy clacking like a collapsed lifter on an old-school V8. I've heard recordings, but haven't heard it in person.

Moly additives are one of the very few lubricant chemistry components that seem to have a quantifiable effect on some kinds of engine noise, and I can see it helping with cam phaser noise that sometimes happens on VVT engines (Ford Modulars more often than Hemis I would wager). But the "tick" is due to a wide clearance that gets snapped shut like clapping your hands together, and all the moly in the world probably won't fix it or even change it appreciably.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dtru

If you want to turn your vehicle in and have a tech open up the heads to try something that from what I have seen does not work, then go for it. I do not think its worth the hassle.


That's something people do need to consider. All I can say is that my reading seems to indicate that the star bulletins actually *do* fix the problem. Prior to that, dealers would try new lifters, new rocker arms, or a mix of other things that might only temporarily fix the issue, if even that much.

I've never actually heard a Hemi with the true, heavy "hemi tick" that the bulletins address. Most of them have a light valve-train noise not unlike a vehicle with adjustable valve lash. That's not an actual problem- the "Hemi Tick" that needs to be addressed is a heavy clacking like a collapsed lifter on an old-school V8. I've heard recordings, but haven't heard it in person.

Moly additives are one of the very few lubricant chemistry components that seem to have a quantifiable effect on some kinds of engine noise, and I can see it helping with cam phaser noise that sometimes happens on VVT engines (Ford Modulars more often than Hemis I would wager). But the "tick" is due to a wide clearance that gets snapped shut like clapping your hands together, and all the moly in the world probably won't fix it or even change it appreciably.




I have had 3 different Dodge 5.7's and each one was a little different in the "tick". On my 09 Ram it only happened every once in a while on a cold start and would quickly disappear. On my 12 Ram it was more of the knock that you are speaking of that would happen more often than not and would go away exactly at 140 degree coolant temps. My 13 Challenger has the slight tick on cold starts, it gets quieter after warm up but its never completely gone. Each one I brought to my local dealership and each time I got "its supposed to sound like that" regardless of how much info I gave them.

Either way it was more annoying than anything and each one ran perfectly. I now have long tubes and other bolt on's on my Challenger and it pulls harder than it ever has with 33k miles. I will look more into this specific bulletin as I said I have yet to see any that were completely fixed but even if they could get rid of the tick I still wouldnt want a tech inside my engine, especially when the techs dont know that filling the oil too quickly will send oil down the air make up tube and soak the air filter(personal experience). To me its not worth it.

One of the reasons that I stand firmly behind the moly statement they made is my anecdotal experience that switching from Amsoil XL to SS (same weight) smoothed out the power output through the RPM's. I had that issue with all 3 of my 5.7's and now the power is consistent.

Now this being anecdotal theres nothing I can say or do to prove it but it did happen and I will stand by my comments.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Still keep missing the most important thing about simply accepting what the SRT engineers say publicly as some kind of iron clad fact.

They are bound BY CONTRACTS that prohibit them from saying anything of their own opinions. They must repeat only the company mantra or they may be dismissed.

This year that is SOPUS. Next year it could change. Either way you are not hearing their opinions at all, just what they are allowed to say.

We have had 3 different late model hemis in the family and I have been a mod on 300cforums for many years. I have owned my SRT8 since August 05, it now has over 100k miles on it. I have run many different oils in it over the years from 30w to 50w and all worked quite well. These engines simply are not hard on oil, just the aggressively tuned and driven ones are. Fuel dilution is about the only real issue and it seems to have zero effect. Note that at no time have I ever seen any noticeable change in power output from different oils. And I have over 200 passes on this car at the strip.

Flatly stated, most of them do not tick either. A small percentage do. I've seen and drag raced/road raced 100's of them at meets all over the country and wrenched on several right here in my shop. Hemi tick is an annoyance for most who ever even experience it.

 

[webfors]

mmmm... hemi

That is all.

Thanks for the discussion. Now off to the Dodge dealer for some test drives