2012 Mustang V6 - HPL BAS 0W-20 - 16,918 Miles

[RDY4WAR]

I ran the BAS racing oil line from @High Performance Lubricants in 0W-20 out to almost 17k miles. This oil is not designed for long drain intervals, but curiosity struck to see just how long it could actually last. I'd say it did pretty well.

Lab is ALS.

 

[bluesmokertdi]

that copper would worry me, get ready to replace the bearings

 

[aquariuscsm]

Those wear metal levels would freak me out!

 

[RDY4WAR]

that copper would worry me, get ready to replace the bearings

Those wear metal levels would freak me out!

Why? It's just 2 ppm per 1k miles for copper and barely 1 ppm per 1k miles for iron.

This engine also contains other sources of copper such as floating bronze bushings.

That's not really a lot of wear metals. You could take a penny and rub it between your fingers for a couple minutes. You won't see anything with the naked eye, but I bet ICP would find 20-30 ppm copper. Those numbers don't alarm me at all, especially not at 17k miles.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Why?

Because it's tradition around here (and other forums) to infer wear from UOAs.

Thanks for posting. I was curious about the BAS oil. I wanted to run this in our RAM 1500, 5.7 HEMI. I ordered the PP PCMO 5W-30 for that one. Should I still run this? What do you think? We have other vehicles I can run the PCMO in

 

[RDY4WAR]

I would leave this oil for the track cars. Yeah, it can hold up on the street, but there's no reason to. The PCMO line works better at these intervals.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I would leave this oil for the track cars. Yeah, it can hold up on the street, but there's no reason to. The PCMO line works better at these intervals.

Thank you for the advice. Honestly, I can't waitbto put the PCMO in the HEMI. Is the BAS oil leaching and disolving very small amounts of loose soft metals similar to Red Line?

 

[FZ1]

Impressive oil and report but the oil is done. Thickening quite a bit compared to the previous 10,000 mile run.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Impressive oil and report but the oil is done. Thickening quite a bit compared to the previous 10,000 mile run.

It has thickened somewhat, but nothing too concerning. I'd rather have a little oxidative thickening than shearing. This oil is definitely not designed for this kind of use, and I won't be using it for this again. However, the point was to show how well an oil, formulated around championship winning drag racing teams, could hold up on the street.

 

[FZ1]

It has thickened somewhat, but nothing too concerning. I'd rather have a little oxidative thickening than shearing. This oil is definitely not designed for this kind of use, and I won't be using it for this again. However, the point was to show how well an oil, formulated around championship winning drag racing teams, could hold up on the street.

Agree, it's an impressive oil and report, it, just "seemed" to like the 10k run better with no apparent thickening.

 

[drtyler]

What was the initial TBN?

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

9

 

[FZ1]

What is the Noak on the 0w-20?

 

[Trav]

that copper would worry me, get ready to replace the bearings

If it was failing bearings (if they are tri metal) the lead would be high, you have to get through the lead layer before you get to the copper. If they are aluminum bearings I dont see any issue there either, Possibly copper from an oil cooler or or a bushing.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

What is the Noak on the 0w-20?

I do not have Noack and do not run them for the most part. We use good base oils and therefore we do not run into the issues of volatility as compared to someone trying to squeak by with lower quality base oils. We do run TGA against a high quality competitor to be sure of where we are.

I think it is fair to say that a 1/2 quart of makeup oil in 17,000 miles in this case is certainly an indication we are pretty good in the volatility department.

Thanks for asking

 

[OVERKILL]

I do not have Noack and do not run them for the most part. We use good base oils and therefore we do not run into the issues of volatility as compared to someone trying to squeak by with lower quality base oils. We do run TGA against a high quality competitor to be sure of where we are.

I think it is fair to say that a 1/2 quart of makeup oil in 17,000 miles in this case is certainly an indication we are pretty good in the volatility department.

Thanks for asking

And to add to this, TGA is a method for determining mass loss, from which one can infer Noack:
https://www.ace-laboratories.com/rubber-testing-laboratory/tga/
https://www.intertek.com/polymers/testlopedia/tga-astm-e1131/
TGA provides quantitative measurement of mass change in materials associated with transition and thermal degradation. TGA records change in mass from dehydration, decomposition, and oxidation of a sample with time and temperature.

vs Noack:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noack_volatility_test
"In this test, a sample is heated at 250 °C for 60 minutes with a constant flow of air over it. The weight fraction lost is the result for the Noack volatility test."

So, if you run TGA at 250 on an oil with a known Noack of 8% then on another product and it loses less mass, you can infer that Noack of the other product is 8% or lower.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Thanks for making a better explanation than I did myself. Dr Rudnick wrote a paper on using TGA as a screening tool with correlation to Noack. Overkill hit the mail on the head. At a resolution of 10 to the minus 6 of a gram it is a pretty precise instrument. That would be a millionth of the weight of a dollar bill.

David

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Impressive oil and report but the oil is done. Thickening quite a bit compared to the previous 10,000 mile run.

I meant to address this. We use VI Improvers that are very shear stable. As a result you will almost never see shear in UOA of these oils we make. If you were to formulate with a less stable VI Improver the oil would shear as it thickens with age and at the end of the drain there would be a perception of no change. In fact you would have 2 changes going on at the same time that counteract each other. It is actually cheaper to do it that way. I have chosen the path of more stability as we have some fleet applications that are fairly tough on oil. In these applications we will go 4 times the drains with success backed up by UOA. Rather than stocking a cheaper material as well I made this choice.

 

[bbhero]

Thanks for making a better explanation than I did myself. Dr Rudnick wrote a paper on using TGA as a screening tool with correlation to Noack. Overkill hit the mail on the head. At a resolution of 10 to the minus 6 of a gram it is a pretty precise instrument. That would be a millionth of the weight of a dollar bill.

David

I'd bet odd money... My $50 against someone else's $5 that the Noack on this oil is less than 7 %....
.
And I will win that bet and keep my 50 and take that 5 from someone else.

 

[Trav]

And to add to this, TGA is a method for determining mass loss, from which one can infer Noack:
https://www.ace-laboratories.com/rubber-testing-laboratory/tga/
https://www.intertek.com/polymers/testlopedia/tga-astm-e1131/
TGA provides quantitative measurement of mass change in materials associated with transition and thermal degradation. TGA records change in mass from dehydration, decomposition, and oxidation of a sample with time and temperature.

vs Noack:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noack_volatility_test
"In this test, a sample is heated at 250 °C for 60 minutes with a constant flow of air over it. The weight fraction lost is the result for the Noack volatility test."

So, if you run TGA at 250 on an oil with a known Noack of 8% then on another product and it loses less mass, you can infer that Noack of the other product is 8% or lower.

2 coffee pots for a couple of hours will do. LOL

JK we know what I mean.