2010 FX4 | MS5K 5W-20 SN | 5.4L | 7,394mi

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Gulf is not WNE/WPP. Gulf is blended by American Refining in Bradford, PA and headquartered in TN. It is essentially Brad Penn SN/GF-5.
It is a decent oil. All the dealers up here use it in their bulk tanks. For more info, go to www.nu-tierbrands.com.
We have Gulf Pride 5w30 semi-synthetic in our bulk tank. It costs us $6.32/gallon.
 
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I'd like to see a run on Havoline conventional to compare against the Mobil. If its not too late and you'd be inclined to try that out instead. I'd much prefer to see that comparison. Think about it and anybody else that would like to see that instead of the aforementioned? Thanks!

Edit: Looks like it's on sale at one of the auto parts stores but now I forget which one.

Edit II: It's the full syn at AAP for $19.99 with a P1 filter. Hmmm, 15k on that oil?
 
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Originally Posted By: satinsilver
I'd like to see a run on Havoline conventional to compare against the Mobil. If its not too late and you'd be inclined to try that out instead. I'd much prefer to see that comparison. Think about it and anybody else that would like to see that instead of the aforementioned? Thanks!

Edit: Looks like it's on sale at one of the auto parts stores but now I forget which one.

Edit II: It's the full syn at AAP for $19.99 with a P1 filter. Hmmm, 15k on that oil?

In the PQIA Comparison it has one of the lowest TBNs. I understand that TBN is not the be-all/end-all of oil performance, but I wonder if it could last 15K (it is Dexos approved though). One thing I need to install, but am quite apprehensive about doing so due to offroad activities is a Fumoto valve. I can be fairly quick on the draw pulling and replacing the drain plug for a sample, but I would wager I would lose about a quart in the process. I readily trust most any oil to last 10K without much worry in my FX4, but 15K without a sample is not a good idea.
 
I still think you should use PYB instead. Direct compairson of the BITOG favorites MS5K vs PYB in extended OCIs. That would be awesome.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
I still think you should use PYB instead. Direct compairson of the BITOG favorites MS5K vs PYB in extended OCIs. That would be awesome.


Another good idea!
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: volk06
I still think you should use PYB instead. Direct compairson of the BITOG favorites MS5K vs PYB in extended OCIs. That would be awesome.


Another good idea!


Yes, I'd like to see that more than a store brand. The truck deserves it since it's well taken care of and 40k new.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
I still think you should use PYB instead. Direct compairson of the BITOG favorites MS5K vs PYB in extended OCIs. That would be awesome.

That would be interesting, another regarded contender. Then since MS5K has Ti, to something like Kendall which also has a load of Ti that seems to be a sleeper. Would see how a couple Ti contenders against old tried & true Moly's.

After reading this thread, I think just for fun I'll nab a bottle of MS5K for the next mower (Honda HRX) OC. Too bad I didn't think of trying it earlier.... I had just changed the mower oil yesterday, but next time, see (I know it's not a UOA) how it looks and if any different consumption. Been using Rotella 5w-40 for a couple seasons and not much noticeable consumption. Just something to try. Then set aside a bottle of PP for a spin.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
I still think you should use PYB instead. Direct compairson of the BITOG favorites MS5K vs PYB in extended OCIs. That would be awesome.

Well, it would be really easy to trade-in some of the MS5K for PYB. I really have no issues running any SN oil; they are all proven.
 
I don't see PYB as being any different (as an expectation) than the MS5K. What it is that one would expect to be revealed? That a top tier dino is as good as another top tier dino? Gosh - way to push the envelope in the quest of knowledge guys ...

If the Gulf is truly Brad Penn then I'd expect top performance out of that product too; good pedigree.

I still vote for a quality house brand, but it is, admittedly and understandably, not my choice to make.

It's not like a house dino is going to ruin the engine. He has a good approach. Run 6k miles and UOA. Then 7.5k miles and UOA. Etc, etc. If the numbers look good they will be self-supporting. If not, change oils and move on.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I don't see PYB as being any different (as an expectation) than the MS5K. What it is that one would expect to be revealed? That a top tier dino is as good as another top tier dino? Gosh - way to push the envelope in the quest of knowledge guys ...

If the Gulf is truly Brad Penn then I'd expect top performance out of that product too; good pedigree.

I still vote for a quality house brand, but it is, admittedly and understandably, not my choice to make.

It's not like a house dino is going to ruin the engine. He has a good approach. Run 6k miles and UOA. Then 7.5k miles and UOA. Etc, etc. If the numbers look good they will be self-supporting. If not, change oils and move on.


I agree there shouldn't be any difference between PYB and MS5K but you know how many people think that just because it has the most moly in any of the conventional oils that is it the best and that the MS5K is a "cheap" oil because of the Ti and sodium additives. Those two oils are the dino favorites on BITOG so it would be interesting to see the two battle head to head. While we know it should produce the same results, there's only one way we will ever know! Here AZ, AAP, and ST are all WPP oils here.
 
Well can I PEAK your interest?
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I have had good experiences with PEAK, enough that when my local AZ had the 10w40 on clearance for $3/5 liter jug, I bought the last 6 jugs in the store. It is blended by Warren Distribution for Old World Industries. The 5w30 was the only oil other than MS5K that my old Altima ran well on, and my Cherokee ran great on the 10w30.
So, yeah, run some PEAK.
 
Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Well geez... if you want to push the envelope, I'll send you a case of Bullseye.

Ummm....that would not be pushing the envelope
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Originally Posted By: walk23
Why would you change oils when you're getting such favorable results just to appease someone else's whims ?

Because sometimes proving a point is important especially when it can dispel multiple oil myths in the process. Besides, I am betting that any SN oil would run well in my engine and not just MS5K.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: walk23
Why would you change oils when you're getting such favorable results just to appease someone else's whims ?

Because sometimes proving a point is important especially when it can dispel multiple oil myths in the process. Besides, I am betting that any SN oil would run well in my engine and not just MS5K.



Yes - to be honest I find that question a bit perplexing ...

Why try a porter house cut after you've had t-bone?
Why try a fine pale ale after a good lager?
Why try an excellent Dominican robusto after enjoying a Honduran Churchill?


There is nothing wrong with sticking with a good result. But there is also nothing wrong with seeing what else might duplicate that result, especially for less cost.

2010_FX4 has shown, with more dedication than many I might add, that syns most certainly returned nothing special for all the added cost. Not one aspect of his UOAs would lead to a credible decision otherwise; not the vis, nor the wear, not the insols, etc. For all measurables, he's seen first-hand that the hype and rhetoric surrounding syns did not measure up to the claims of superiority in his application; this is likely true of MOST applications given the conservative nature of OCIs practiced in the market. And frankly, he can probably entertain similar results from a good quality house brand; that is the next step (I hope) in his quest for knowledge.

At the risk of speaking up for him, I think he is to be commended for his approach. He is more consistent that many here, and went into this with an open mind, willing to accept the results at face value, rather than try to cram the data into a preconceived notion.

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Why would you change oils ... just to appease someone else's whims ?

I would not see this a "whimsical"; he's on a quest to collect data in a consistent manner, analyze it, and find the "best" fluid to match his maintenance program, that gives a favorable ROI. This is not a "whim", but rather a methodical approach to validating his options.

To the contrary, most other BITOGers are the ones who are subject to their "whims"; hopping from brand-to-brand, grade-to-grade, using UOAs as toys, and regurgitating sales hype and marketing rhetoric with no ability to back up their claims with credible proof.
 
I understand that dino oil is returning UOAs as good as syn would return, but does that:

1) Say anything about the relative longevity of dino vs syn?
2) Cover all the measures of oil performance that we should be interested in?
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: walk23
Why would you change oils when you're getting such favorable results just to appease someone else's whims ?

Because sometimes proving a point is important especially when it can dispel multiple oil myths in the process. Besides, I am betting that any SN oil would run well in my engine and not just MS5K.


Following the posts, it looks like others influenced you to do something other than what you've been doing.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
I understand that dino oil is returning UOAs as good as syn would return, but does that:

1) Say anything about the relative longevity of dino vs syn?
2) Cover all the measures of oil performance that we should be interested in?



1- it says that a "baseline" would need to be established, and that would be done with a dino lube. To establish this criteria, one would need to run out a lube long enough that wear rates shifted (escalated) and condemnation levels were reached. Once those happened, then you could look at the OCI duration it took to get there, and then forumlate out an expected OCI duration of a syn, relative to the cost ratio. If syn cost 2x more money, then it would have to protect as well for 2x the distance.

2- No. A UOA does not cover every aspect of proper maintenance programs. It is a big chunk, but it is not everything. Some things can be inferred from the UOA, others not. Additionally, you'd want to perhaps to PCs, compression testing, visual inspections inside valve covers, monitor fluid consumptions, etc.

UOA are a direct view of lubricant health; they are an indirect view of equipment health. UOAs are the cheapest form of equipment "check-up" we have. We could do a tear down of an engine after every 30k miles, after each oil brand swap, and measure clearances and view for galling, pitting, scoring, etc. But that is cost and time prohibitive for most all of us. And so we rely on a UOA to indicate small shifts in wear, that would be precursors to larger events happening. It is important to note that UOAs cannot see particles generally larger than 5um, so an impending catastrophic event throwing large particles may never even been seen with a UOA. But then again, by the time your engine is in this condition, it's probably giving other clues (leaks, odors, noises) too.



2010_FX4 probably will not run out a dino all the way to see wear statistically shifting. That is his choice. But what he has proven here is that his self-imposed OCI duration is just as well served by dino fluids as super-premium syns. There was no tangible benefit to running PU over the MS5K; it was wasted money.
 
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