2010 FX4 | MS5K 5W-20 SN | 5.4L | 7,394mi

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
P.S. MS5K will be back right after this run.


You have enough proof that dino works; the MS5K clearly has demonstrated it's ability.

If I offered to cover some of the costs, would you consider a house brand? (AAP, AZ, ST)? I would be willing to pay for an OCI or two, if you covered the UOA costs. Perhaps, just as you did with Mobil, start at 6k miles and UOA, then 7.5k miles and UOA ... Consider it a new "Dare" if you will!

LOL - this "dare" was a little personal and although I am normally fact based, I allowed the emotion to slip through, but in the end I am quite sure that I will be right. I have already proven part of the dare to the person in question (no one here on BITOG) and I know facts will not lie when the oil is UOA'ed at 10K and 15K.

The problem is that I have so much MS5K (including a massive amount sent back to me from my Dad after his truck was totaled) that I need to use it (or swap some of it for another brand). I definitely appreciate your offer, but no need to pony up anything. House brands are typically made by the majors, right?

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
The problem is that I have so much MS5K (including a massive amount sent back to me from my Dad after his truck was totaled) that I need to use it (or swap some of it for another brand). I definitely appreciate your offer, but no need to pony up anything. House brands are typically made by the majors, right?



Again - cannot fault you for using up free oil, so I certainly can understand the hoarding of the MS5K from your father.

Yes, the house brands are typically made by majors, often negotiated regionally. Ashland makes Napa oils as well as Valvoline. ST fluids are typically Warren, but have been known to be others in niche markets, such as the HDEOs at times. I know a person who works at a refinery down on the gulf, and he has direct knowledge of ST being a house equivilant to Mobil for some of their niche offerings, but that was regional and not national. Etc ...

I offer to pay for a few of reasons:
1) I put my money where my mouth is; I practice what I preach, and am willing to pay for others who are interested in experimenting when there is value in it
2) you are VERY dedicated and methodical, as I've noted before; your approach is trusted and verified
3) your data stream has a longer history than many BITOGers, so when presented in your forum, it's more consumable


Offer is always open, should you choose to try it!

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Offer is always open, should you choose to try it!

What oil would you want to test? Note--Ashland or any Ashland subsidiaries is totally off the list.

 

[901Memphis]

Isn't PYB the most direct competitor to M5k?

 

[KCJeep]

Warren is not a "major" but they make a good share of house brands as well. I think their lubes are essentially the equal of the majors though.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Isn't PYB the most direct competitor to M5k?
Well, they are definitely both conventionals, but somehow (at least from my point of view) I think PYB is at a different level. I see Formula Shell, Chevron Supreme, Havoline DS, etc. as direct competition to MS5K (of course, I could be wrong).

 

[salv]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Isn't PYB the most direct competitor to M5k?
Well, they are definitely both conventionals, but somehow (at least from my point of view) I think PYB is at a different level. I see Formula Shell, Chevron Supreme, Havoline DS, etc. as direct competition to MS5K (of course, I could be wrong).

I would put MS5K up against PYB any day. It is, in my opinion, the best conventional on the market right now. It is a budget price point, but not a budget oil. Mobil Special is their entry level conventional oil, and it will hold its own against any of the premier conventionals.
MS5K is to PYB as Mobil Special is to QSGB...If we are comparing ExxonMobil to Sopus.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: salv
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Isn't PYB the most direct competitor to M5k?
Well, they are definitely both conventionals, but somehow (at least from my point of view) I think PYB is at a different level. I see Formula Shell, Chevron Supreme, Havoline DS, etc. as direct competition to MS5K (of course, I could be wrong).

I would put MS5K up against PYB any day. It is, in my opinion, the best conventional on the market right now. It is a budget price point, but not a budget oil. Mobil Special is their entry level conventional oil, and it will hold its own against any of the premier conventionals.
MS5K is to PYB as Mobil Special is to QSGB...If we are comparing ExxonMobil to Sopus.

On paper PYB has higher *everything* and since it starts with a full point higher on TBN I think it would exceed MS5K. However, that is on paper and is not in the real world. Perhaps, I should exchange enough of my MS5K for two OCs of PYB and see how it fares against MS5K?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I was more curious as to whether your wear numbers would change with a different oil since you seem to do one every time you might see a difference or not after a few consecutive changes.

I too am curious however with the current results he is getting only a fool would change anything.

Heh...if memory serves the same thing was said when I dropped PU in favor of MS5K

 

[salv]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: salv
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Isn't PYB the most direct competitor to M5k?
Well, they are definitely both conventionals, but somehow (at least from my point of view) I think PYB is at a different level. I see Formula Shell, Chevron Supreme, Havoline DS, etc. as direct competition to MS5K (of course, I could be wrong).

I would put MS5K up against PYB any day. It is, in my opinion, the best conventional on the market right now. It is a budget price point, but not a budget oil. Mobil Special is their entry level conventional oil, and it will hold its own against any of the premier conventionals.
MS5K is to PYB as Mobil Special is to QSGB...If we are comparing ExxonMobil to Sopus.

On paper PYB has higher *everything* and since it starts with a full point higher on TBN I think it would exceed MS5K. However, that is on paper and is not in the real world. Perhaps, I should exchange enough of my MS5K for two OCs of PYB and see how it fares against MS5K?


I dare you

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
What oil would you want to test?


I would like to see you run a house brand (ST, AAP, AZ); your choice. Just stick with it for four UOAs of increasing OCI duration, just as you did with the MS5K. I think you'll find they are every bit as capable.

How about I modify the offer ...
If you try them as stated, and you don't get "normal" results (as defined by macro statistical data), then I'll pay for the fluids and the UOAs for that portion of the trials. Yes - I am THAT confident that it will be OK.

Much of the reason I'm so interested in your application is because:
1) you generate high miles, so the data comes fairly easily and quickly
2) your methods are proven and reliable; you're consistent and trustworthy
3) you have "other" data which makes similar comparisons possible with less variation (same veh, driver, similar routes, etc)



As for your stash of MS5K, I would offer to take some off your hands, but I have my own stash of house brands to burn up in my own UOA trials ... Perhaps some other BITOGers could purchase and help out?


How about it? In the imortal words of "Schwartz" in Chrismas Story ...
"I triple dog dare ya!"

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
What oil would you want to test?


I would like to see you run a house brand (ST, AAP, AZ); your choice. Just stick with it for four UOAs of increasing OCI duration, just as you did with the MS5K. I think you'll find they are every bit as capable.

How about I modify the offer ...
If you try them as stated, and you don't get "normal" results (as defined by macro statistical data), then I'll pay for the fluids and the UOAs for that portion of the trials. Yes - I am THAT confident that it will be OK.

Much of the reason I'm so interested in your application is because:
1) you generate high miles, so the data comes fairly easily and quickly
2) your methods are proven and reliable; you're consistent and trustworthy
3) you have "other" data which makes similar comparisons possible with less variation (same veh, driver, similar routes, etc)



As for your stash of MS5K, I would offer to take some off your hands, but I have my own stash of house brands to burn up in my own UOA trials ... Perhaps some other BITOGers could purchase and help out?


How about it? In the imortal words of "Schwartz" in Chrismas Story ...
"I triple dog dare ya!"

Just to increase the forums knowledge base I'll kick in 10 bucks for whatever. To buy the oil for test or help pay for the uoa.
Whoever is keeping the books pm me your Paypal info.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
As for your stash of MS5K, I would offer to take some off your hands, but I have my own stash of house brands to burn up in my own UOA trials ... Perhaps some other BITOGers could purchase and help out?

I can always swap it for different oil, so no worries there. We will be purchasing a new car soon so I will probably exchange it as I need to for that car specified oil. So no worries there!

Your challenge is intriguing and I am not worried about the cost, so no need for funding--thanks to both you and Clevy for the offer. However, I do question what we will learn because if all of the oils are SN specification, they all should perform equally within reason; right? I see that (in my area) AAP, ST, and AZ oil appears to be made by Warren Petroleum so we would be testing that "brand". Since all of these are WPP, what about a brand that is a little bit closer to my heart that is also made by WPP? What about GulfPride?

 

[dnewton3]

I would be fully in support of any "other" oil brand being used. If that brand is near and dear to you, go for it! I've not heard of it, but that's all the more reason to include it in the reindeer games!

Yes - that point I'm often pushing is that any API licensed product, used in the correct application, is way more capable than folks think!

Your methods and miles make for good data that's quickly consumable.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I would be fully in support of any "other" oil brand being used. If that brand is near and dear to you, go for it! I've not heard of it, but that's all the more reason to include it in the reindeer games!

Yes - that point I'm often pushing is that any API licensed product, used in the correct application, is way more capable than folks think!

Your methods and miles make for good data that's quickly consumable.

I will collect some and be ready when this run is over; I have about 6500 to go to hit 10K and will sample and then push to 15K so it will be a few months (scary right?).

PQIA VOA MS5K

PQIA VOA GulfPride

Code:


Oil 5W-30 SM 5W-30 SN



PHYSICAL TESTS Standard/ranges-b Average-e Gulf Motor Mobil Super 5000



TBN, mg KOH/g, (ASTM D2896) 7.4 to 9.0 8 7.7 7.3

Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt, (ASTM D445) 9.3 to 12.5 10.39 10.56 10.2

Viscosity @ 40ºC, cSt, ASTM D445 55.0 to 82.0 60.48 62.22 60.76

Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) 156 to 167 163 146 156

Viscosity @ -30ºC mPa s (cP) (ASTM D5293) 6,600 Max 5,793 5,720 5,806

Volatility, mass % loss, 1 hr, @ 250ºC (ASTM D5800) 15 Max 13.5 15.1 13.2



ELEMENTAL ANALYSIS-c



Additives

Nitrogen μg/g (ASTM D-5762) 720 to 1,000 860 840 843.4

Calcium 1,648 to 2,301 2,043 1,699 1,952

Magnesium, ppm 6 to 43 11 11 14

Phosphorus, ppm 600 to 800 772 800 706

Zinc, ppm 789 to 887 851 880 792

Molybdenum, ppm
Barium, ppm


Boron, ppm
Silicon, ppm-d 4 to 8 5 0 4

Potassium, ppm
Manganese, ppm
Titanium, ppm
Sulfur, ppm 5,000 max 3,021 2,366 3,000

Copper, ppm
Sodium, ppm
Vanadium, ppm


Contaminants

Silver, ppm
Aluminum, ppm
Chromium, ppm
Iron, ppm
Nickel, ppm
Lead, ppm
Antimony, ppm
Tin, ppm 4 to 5 5 2

 

[dnewton3]

Ahhhhh .... I see now. It's a "Gulf" product. I was thinking "GulfPride" as all one word. My mistake. Sorry. Oddly, when I bing it, I only come up with EU stuff and not NA; perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place?


FYI - the Gulf in that VOA is GF-4/SM and the Mobil is GF-5/SN. Not a direct comparison, but at least informational. I presume you'd be getting the lastest GF-5/SN variety.

If it's made by Warren as the others, then by all means let it roll! The monikers we attach are just semantics anyway, often. What matters are results and ROI.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
FYI - the Gulf in that VOA is GF-4/SM and the Mobil is GF-5/SN. Not a direct comparison, but at least informational. I presume you'd be getting the lastest GF-5/SN variety. If it's made by Warren as the others, then by all means let it roll! The monikers we attach are just semantics anyway, often. What matters are results and ROI.

I think the SM version is what PQIA tested, but there is an SN version out now. It will require "transport" because Gulf has not made it back to well...the Gulf as yet. I have a trip (by plane) soon to an area that does have it and I will grab two OCs while I am there. It will be ready when needed.

 

[SatinSilver]

So your going to go 15k miles during your next oci with the gulf oil?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: satinsilver
So your going to go 15k miles during your next oci with the gulf oil?

15K with the current fill of synthetic (provided it will last that long and I have to believe that it will) and then I will start the Gulf run.

 

[KCJeep]

I don't think that Gulf is Warren, JMO, but I appreciate all your contributions here and will look forward to your results.