2010 Audi A4/S4

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
We took the S4 for its maiden highway voyage recently, and we both think it was a good purchase. When we first set off, he immediately complained about the steering feel. He described it as being similar to a really good wheel for Gran Turismo. You can't really feel what the front wheels are doing, and resistance doesn't build much as you turn the wheels more. But that is the only major complaint we have about the car. On the highway, it didn't seem to affect the drive much as we got used to it quickly. There is a little feel, just not a lot.

I can't remember where I read this, but I believe it was an auto mag: it said that Audi doesn't see the point in having insanely communicative steering, so they intentionally give their road cars just enough steering feel that you can drive ithem fast, and that's about it. Maybe it's a true story.

 

[CivicFan]

Come to think of it, wife's A6 feels insulated from the road, too, at low speeds. While my car makes you feel every single unevenness on the road with the wheel taking a life of its own, hers always remains comfortable. But given that I drive her car at 90+ mph 80% of the time, that doesn't really affect me. (yes, i know it's wrong but with that car you can't really go slow)

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
(yes, i know it's wrong but with that car you can't really go slow)


It's not wrong. It's illegal. Big difference.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I can't remember where I read this, but I believe it was an auto mag: it said that Audi doesn't see the point in having insanely communicative steering, so they intentionally give their road cars just enough steering feel that you can drive ithem fast, and that's about it. Maybe it's a true story.

Could be. I just figured they, and most other manufacturers, still had some design work to do to get electronic power steering where it should be.

I laughed when I was reading my September 2010 C&D last night before bed and one of the "lows" for the Audi RS5 in the comparison is "video game steering." I'll have to show that one to my buddy.

I should add that I didn't comment on the engine because he was following Audi's recommendations and not using full throttle or exceeding 5000 rpm during the break-in period. Once he opens it up, I can only hope it sounds as good as the 3.2 VR6!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
should add that I didn't comment on the engine because he was following Audi's recommendations and not using full throttle or exceeding 5000 rpm during the break-in period.

Good man.

Originally Posted By: rpn453
Once he opens it up, I can only hope it sounds as good as the 3.2 VR6!

It will.

 

[rpn453]

I finally got to open it up. It's certainly fast, but there's not much drama to it. Lots of low end torque and it doesn't build power at high revs as much as I expected, even though it's smooth all the way to 7200 rpm. There's an initial push and then it just quickly and quietly builds speed as though it could keep accelerating forever. It feels like I would expect the most powerful European Mercedes/BMW diesel sedans to feel, but with a higher redline. The torque is certainly impressive. I've driven faster cars than this S4, but the only thing I've driven with a comparable feel during acceleration is a Dodge Stealth R/T Turbo. Going up a 6% grade in 6th gear at 70 mph with three other passengers and some luggage, I floored it and the car accelerated effortlessly. It does rev a little higher than I expected - about 2700 rpm at 70 mph - so I suppose that helped. I'd prefer a louder exhaust; it does seem like there are some good mechanical noises in there if you listen carefully!

We also encountered some rain during the trip. Hydroplaning in this car is a strange sensation. You don't feel it at all through the steering wheel and the car doesn't slow, it just shifts laterally. The first time it happened, I was wondering if there was something slippery on the road like ice or oil. I was surprised at how easily it hydroplanes. The S4 tires are Dunlop Sport Maxx summers, and are clearly intended more for a quiet ride than for wet weather driving. They are fairly wide (255) but I can't see that being the primary cause since the car was loaded up to about 4800 lbs. I did notice some of the tire-noise-initiated cabin resonance I had heard during the A4 test drives, but only for a few short periods over poor road surfaces.

This was my first experience driving a car with HID headlights at night, and I expected much more considering how annoying they can be to other drivers. My Mazda3 lights the road ahead a bit better, though I think the Audi's lights may be better for seeing the ditches. There is a very prominent cut-off in the light when not using brights and it bounces around as the car moves through its suspension travel, causing the reflective signs to flash ahead. I don't see why this sort of lighting system is considered an expensive feature. It is better than most cars I've driven at night, but most of those are older vehicles, before headlight design improved.

I found the cruise control stalk to be unusual, and my unfamiliarity caused me to accidentally flash the brights at other drivers a couple of times. I'm pretty sure I'd get used to it though.

Despite my complaints, I don't dislike the car. I still enjoy driving and riding in it. It's not something I desire though, which is probably a good thing. There really isn't any other new car I desire as a daily driver. I'm pretty content with my Mazda3, and my only desire would be to have a true sports car along with it. However, if I were to provide a review of my Mazda3, there would be many faults with that car too.

 

[CivicFan]

The HID have a lot more stuff than a halogen headlight. The self-leveling only is a sophisticated process. Add to it the lens and the ballast and you get a large incremental cost.

 

[Quattro Pete]

rpn453, any updates on your friend's S4 in terms of reliability/issues? Any DI deposit issues?

 

[rpn453]

The car has a little over 20k miles now. No serious issues. A window motor was replaced that was glitchy from day 1. He also mentioned that the clutch return is a bit slow sometimes and he was going to talk to the dealer about it. I think that's it.

He only uses ethanol-free Top Tier fuel in it, to minimize the chance of future deposit issues.

He's done a few small-track days with it and it has performed very well. Those Dunlop Sport Maxx tires have done alright and been durable in that environment.

He's been doing oil changes at the half-way points between what the dealer provides (@5k, @15k, then every 1yr/15k). Syntec 5W-40.

It has impressed enough that our other buddy has a 2012 S4 on order that he should be receiving within the next couple of weeks. Basically the same other than the color, but with the B&O stereo and Stasis Challenge exhaust, engine programming, and rear stabilizer bar. The Stasis package is pricey, but bumps power from 333 to 410 hp while retaining full warranty. Torque only increases by 26 ft-lb. It mostly just allows the engine to continue building power linearly to redline.

I enjoy it more every time I drive it. The steering seems to have loosened up and gained some feel as it has broken in, but it still feels a bit artificial.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
The steering seems to have loosened up and gained some feel as it has broken in, but it still feels a bit artificial.

Is it possible it was the tires that needed to wear-in some?

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Is it possible it was the tires that needed to wear-in some?


I don't know. They still have plenty of tread. I think there's just less friction in the steering system.

 

[d00df00d]

Don't forget, the S4 not only has a hefty curb weight but also has most of its weight over the front axle, and is AWD on top of that. There is going to be a lot of steering assist. Plus, Audi rarely seems to emphasize steering feel too much; they build in enough to get the job done, but that's about it. It'd be surprising if the steering on your buddy's S4 didn't feel artificial.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Don't forget, the S4 not only has a hefty curb weight but also has most of its weight over the front axle, and is AWD on top of that. There is going to be a lot of steering assist. Plus, Audi rarely seems to emphasize steering feel too much; they build in enough to get the job done, but that's about it. It'd be surprising if the steering on your buddy's S4 didn't feel artificial.


The weight and drive configuration plays a part, but I can't let it off the hook for those reasons when almost every AWD and FWD I've driven has more feel and my other buddy's 7200 lb 4x4 Dodge 3500 also has more feel despite an even poorer weight distribution! However, the Audi feels much better to steer than that Dodge because there is very little play or flex/rubberiness in the system, and the steering ratio is fairly quick. I once drove the S4 back-to-back with a 2010 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 that another friend has and it was the same thing; the Challenger communicated better, but also felt loose, slow, and rubbery in comparison to the S4, so I preferred the S4 steering.

I have read other complaints about Audi steering being numb, so this may have been a tuning preference of theirs even before the electric assist. Some do prefer to be isolated from the road.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Don't forget, the S4 not only has a hefty curb weight but also has most of its weight over the front axle, and is AWD on top of that. There is going to be a lot of steering assist. Plus, Audi rarely seems to emphasize steering feel too much; they build in enough to get the job done, but that's about it. It'd be surprising if the steering on your buddy's S4 didn't feel artificial.

Weight distribution is 55:45 - not great, but not too bad either. Torque split is 40:60.

As for the steering feel, it was great on my old B5 A4. It was actually better than on my 530i.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
As for the steering feel, it was great on my old B5 A4. It was actually better than on my 530i.

The B5 was a great car. It's also very different from its successors...

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: rpn453

2008 Acura TSX: This would be my choice. It's down on power compared to the others we drove, but everything else seems good. If it were available in AWD, he'd have probably already bought one. We prefer the looks of the previous generation, so if he went with a TSX it would be used.


Ahh, the TSX. Current internet "wisdom" seems to state that you absolutely must have RWD to have a sporty driving experience. The TSX and a few others counter that magnificently.
I liked them a lot. I just found my Mazda gave me the same precision, handling, and control with 2 extra cylinders for about $5000 less.

I like the way Audis look and drive....hate working on them and it seems like virtually every one of them I've had in my shop with over 120,000 miles has had a noisy valvetrain/timing chain.

Originally Posted By: rpn453

I found the cruise control stalk to be unusual, and my unfamiliarity caused me to accidentally flash the brights at other drivers a couple of times. I'm pretty sure I'd get used to it though.

Then, there's the cruise control stalk.

Who designed this? Why? What were they thinking?

Okay, first of all, where is it? OH! down here under the turn signal stalk hidden behind the steering wheel spoke. Okay, I'll just bend down here to where I can see it and ummmmmm....it looks like I pull the stalk towards me to turn on the cruise light in the cluster. Yes. Okay, I'll bend back down and try to figure out how to set the... CRASH!!!!!!!

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Then, there's the cruise control stalk.

Who designed this? Why? What were they thinking?

Okay, first of all, where is it? OH! down here under the turn signal stalk hidden behind the steering wheel spoke. Okay, I'll just bend down here to where I can see it and ummmmmm....it looks like I pull the stalk towards me to turn on the cruise light in the cluster. Yes. Okay, I'll bend back down and try to figure out how to set the... CRASH!!!!!!!


A couple of weeks ago I was driving on a highway and there was a cop ahead of me. So in order to keep the car slow, I turned on the cruise control at the legal speed limit. When I wanted to turn it off, I don't know why I used the turn signal stalk and flashed the cop in front of me. I was sure I was going to get pulled over but got lucky.

It's a very stupid setup but is better than the one on my Z4 which is illogical and doesn't even have a light on the dash to indicate that the cruise control is engaged.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Then, there's the cruise control stalk.

Who designed this? Why? What were they thinking?

Okay, first of all, where is it? OH! down here under the turn signal stalk hidden behind the steering wheel spoke. Okay, I'll just bend down here to where I can see it and ummmmmm....it looks like I pull the stalk towards me to turn on the cruise light in the cluster. Yes. Okay, I'll bend back down and try to figure out how to set the... CRASH!!!!!!!

Haha... I remember it from my B5. It's certainly unusual, but once you figure it out and get used to it, it works just fine.

 

[Spazdog]

Yeah, you'll eventually memorize the operation of the cruise and I'm sure it will be fine. But the location and operation is counterintuitive.

Some time around 1979 or 1980, Fords put the cruise buttons on the steering wheel. They were tiny little silver rectangles and rather difficult to read without focusing your attention away from the road but still way better than a stalk down and away from the turn signal in the dark.

I guess Audi did not want to be confused with a 1980 Ford for putting the buttons on the steering wheel spokes.

or maybe they are afraid that when the airbag deploys, it will be like having a keyboard explode in your face if they put any buttons there

 

[Spazdog]

They were trying to avoid this mess: