That's the question. While this is a high mileage car, I am wondering if the oil was in spec (0W-20) and if the oil was changed on the OLM or better, which means probably and OCI of 7,500. If this car is still mint (which would not be a surprise), I would consider a factory shortblock. And then move to a 5K OCI. The fact of the matter is that this engine is good for higher mileage, and while an anomaly is possible, more likely something went amiss with oil changes. Good luck. You could definitely wrap it back up and keep driving, but you're gonna be calling UBER in the middle of the night. Soon.
2010 Accord--Pitted cam lobe pics
- Thread starter Phishin
- Start date
Thinking about this too
Early on the car was dosed with Lubegard Biotech, but not for a long time. Then it had 80k miles worth of oil changes with Renewable Lubricants. Recently it's had regular M1 5w30 EP with a quart of M1 Racing 0w50
Nothing crazy has been used
But the first 150k miles it was used for BMX racing across country road trips with a loaded car, bike rack, 80 MPH highway driving with 9-11k mile OCI's....
There's your answers: three ideas that are not really correct for this car: Lubegard Biotech; slightly long OCI's; and unjustifiable use of Mobil 1 0W50 racing oil. Had you used 0W20 syn (Mobil 1 or QS or Castrol, Supertech, Pennzoil) and a 5k OCI, you would not be here today. 0W30 would have been fine, too. The BMW usage is low stress on engine and is not part of the problem. I want to be careful not to jostle the arbiters of thick and thin, but this motor is one that runs totally fine on thin.
*BMX
That's absolutely ridiculous. Film thickness protects, not harms. If anything the higher MOFT helped delay the damage.
How can you quickly condemn Biotech? It's a solid Tri Moly product. But yes, I agree those 10k mile OCI's probably caused the varnish. But that was very en vogue here 2010--2018.
The M1 0w50 Racing has just been used the last 2 OCI's since I recently ran out of RLI's oils. I knew I had varnish issues since doing the timing chain 80k miles ago -- That's why I went with RLI for their supposedly good polar cleaning capabilities. And I wanted to continue that cleaning effort with 1 quart of the Ester based racing oil into 4 quarts 5w30EP. You can't really tell me that caused this cam lobe damage, can you?
The M1 0w50 Racing has just been used the last 2 OCI's since I recently ran out of RLI's oils. I knew I had varnish issues since doing the timing chain 80k miles ago -- That's why I went with RLI for their supposedly good polar cleaning capabilities. And I wanted to continue that cleaning effort with 1 quart of the Ester based racing oil into 4 quarts 5w30EP. You can't really tell me that caused this cam lobe damage, can you?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
My question would be what's the detergent package on the 0W-50 Racing oil? If it's only setup to run race day and not hold up over thousands of miles, then it's possible that this resulted in diluting the detergent and dispersant package.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of different additive action going on here, so it's hard to pin it down to something specific.
The Mobil 1 racing oil is a track only product, with no additives geared for 11,000 mile OCI's. Perhaps more like 500 mile OCI's. We can agree to disagree on thick v thin, but this car had oil starvation brought on by long OCI's and very questionable oil and additive choices. Higher MOFT was worthless when the oil did not flow to the damaged cam (because it was goop). Here is the evidence: the picture showing damage and uncharacteristic varnish and the owner's report of products used that were some distance from the manufacturer's recommendations.
Let me clarify ....
Just the last 2 OCI's used 1 quart of M1 Racing mixed into 4 quarts M1 5w30 EP and only running it for 5k Mile OCI's.
I used the EP version to help make up for the lack of detergents in the Racing Oil. I'm pretty sure that is a safe mixture. I remember when Haas on here was mixing M1 0w30AFE 50/50 with M1 Racing 0w50 in a Vette or Ferrari with great reports.
And the tick started a 25k miles ago. The tick is from the chewed up lobe. I thought it just needed a valve adjustment.
Just the last 2 OCI's used 1 quart of M1 Racing mixed into 4 quarts M1 5w30 EP and only running it for 5k Mile OCI's.
I used the EP version to help make up for the lack of detergents in the Racing Oil. I'm pretty sure that is a safe mixture. I remember when Haas on here was mixing M1 0w30AFE 50/50 with M1 Racing 0w50 in a Vette or Ferrari with great reports.
And the tick started a 25k miles ago. The tick is from the chewed up lobe. I thought it just needed a valve adjustment.
I was not going to mention the varnish, but at this point feel I must. That engine was not a M1 regular user. Even at 10K OCI's, M1 will leave a nearly spotless cylinder head. Absolutely spotless. That is specifically what it is designed to do.
My Jag X-Type has 225K and is spotless. Ford F150, 200K, spotless, Ford F150, 355K, spotless with a little yellow tint.
This is what an 200,000 mile, M1 engine looks like:
My Jag X-Type has 225K and is spotless. Ford F150, 200K, spotless, Ford F150, 355K, spotless with a little yellow tint.
This is what an 200,000 mile, M1 engine looks like:
Are you sure the tick is from the lobe? And thanks for clarifying. I am standing by oil starvation and ask if you have any sense of what caused varnish?
Spalling (as mentioned above) is caused when the load on the surface exceeds the tensile strength of the cam lobe. This was caused by either a bad heat treat (no surface hardening) or by the valve spring having insufficient pressure to prevent the separation of contact between the lobe and lifter or follower. Basically, whatever is in contact with the lobe bounces on the surface and becomes a metal jackhammer.
I know because in 2006 my brother lost his built 383 LS1 to a spalled cam lobe that ended up lunching his entire bottom end that was a forged Lunati rotating assembly. It turned out ok as we were able to salvage the crank and rods, and turned it into a 404ci LS3 that eventually ran 10.30s on motor.
This is why you use through-hardened cams instead of induction hardened ones!!
I know because in 2006 my brother lost his built 383 LS1 to a spalled cam lobe that ended up lunching his entire bottom end that was a forged Lunati rotating assembly. It turned out ok as we were able to salvage the crank and rods, and turned it into a 404ci LS3 that eventually ran 10.30s on motor.
This is why you use through-hardened cams instead of induction hardened ones!!
If there was a problem with “flow” it wasn’t due to the grade.
Here is a post from an Element owner's club (also a K24):
www.elementownersclub.com
My 2003 Honda Element just recently developed a top-end ticking noise (2.4 litre engine). This vehicle has exactly 100,000 miles on it, and I have owned it since the 38,000 mile mark. Anyway, I looked in my manual and it says the first scheduled valve adjustment is at 110,000 miles. So I decided, with the top end noise, that I'd better check things a little early.
This engine has always been maintained perfectly, and I have been using Amsoil with 7000 mile OCIs for some time (with Pure One filters). When I pulled the valve cover, it looked absolutely beautiful and clean. However, as I set the valves I discovered that one camshaft lobe (exhaust, cylinder #1) had a damaged lobe. It is not on the ramp area, but rather it is on the heel of the lobe. It looks like the hardness "wore-off" and the lobe became pitted. Needless to say, the ticking will not go away until I change the camshaft. At $400.00, this kind of sucks. I am kind of in shock right now.
Any ideas on what could have caused this problem?
....
Here's an article on the K24 engine that says that exhaust cam wear is one of the issues with this engine:
newparts.com
So... maybe more oil changes may have helped, but this is a not unheard-of problem that owners with this engine have had with cams.
Here's A Surprise: Bad Camshaft!
My 2003 Honda Element just recently developed a top-end ticking noise (2.4 litre engine). This vehicle has exactly 100,000 miles on it, and I have owned it since the 38,000 mile mark. Anyway, I looked in my manual and it says the first scheduled valve adjustment is at 110,000 miles. So I...
www.elementownersclub.com
My 2003 Honda Element just recently developed a top-end ticking noise (2.4 litre engine). This vehicle has exactly 100,000 miles on it, and I have owned it since the 38,000 mile mark. Anyway, I looked in my manual and it says the first scheduled valve adjustment is at 110,000 miles. So I decided, with the top end noise, that I'd better check things a little early.
This engine has always been maintained perfectly, and I have been using Amsoil with 7000 mile OCIs for some time (with Pure One filters). When I pulled the valve cover, it looked absolutely beautiful and clean. However, as I set the valves I discovered that one camshaft lobe (exhaust, cylinder #1) had a damaged lobe. It is not on the ramp area, but rather it is on the heel of the lobe. It looks like the hardness "wore-off" and the lobe became pitted. Needless to say, the ticking will not go away until I change the camshaft. At $400.00, this kind of sucks. I am kind of in shock right now.
Any ideas on what could have caused this problem?
....
Here's an article on the K24 engine that says that exhaust cam wear is one of the issues with this engine:
Honda K24 Engine Explained – What Makes It So Popular? – Newparts.com
The Honda K24 engine is by far one of the most popular motors out there. It's tuner-friendly, reliable to a fault, and best of all, abundant. Here's a rundown!
newparts.com
So... maybe more oil changes may have helped, but this is a not unheard-of problem that owners with this engine have had with cams.
Tensile strength?
cylinder #2 looks much cleaner than the other three. Do you have a head gasket leak? 
That's not the one that's pitted.
That's not the one that's pitted.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
This is sounding like a manufacturing / quality control issue. Its got to be a common thing if more than one Honda is popping up with almost identical damage. Wear from flow or misadjustments etc.... will not show the same exact damage.
There are lots of quality control issues that can be rushed or overlooked and pop up after making parts and they are in service. Those flaws are not easy to discover until the part is in use. Plenty of times I have heard of bad batches of parts for automobiles to turbines or compressors or multi stage pumps etc..... Parts defects that caused us to have to seek out different supplier / manufacturers.
Chemical damage seems off because it is confined to the one same spot and showing no place else.
Flow or adjustment issues also would be easy to spot upon a good inspection.
There are lots of quality control issues that can be rushed or overlooked and pop up after making parts and they are in service. Those flaws are not easy to discover until the part is in use. Plenty of times I have heard of bad batches of parts for automobiles to turbines or compressors or multi stage pumps etc..... Parts defects that caused us to have to seek out different supplier / manufacturers.
Chemical damage seems off because it is confined to the one same spot and showing no place else.
Flow or adjustment issues also would be easy to spot upon a good inspection.
Hey, that was my Prius engine?I was not going to mention the varnish, but at this point feel I must. That engine was not a M1 regular user. Even at 10K OCI's, M1 will leave a nearly spotless cylinder head. Absolutely spotless. That is specifically what it is designed to do.
My Jag X-Type has 225K and is spotless. Ford F150, 200K, spotless, Ford F150, 355K, spotless with a little yellow tint.
This is what an 200,000 mile, M1 engine looks like:
