2008 Honda 2.4L Engine Cold-Start Rattling

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SubieBlue

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Hello Bitogers,
Has anyone ever posted their Honda engine rattling issues on the site in the past? If so, could someone send me the link? Or, feel free to comment and provide any recommendations. My 2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/ 2.4L I4 engine (198,000 miles) rattles on cold start up. Honda dealer suggested replacing the Variable Timing Solenoid Valve. Did that. Worked for like first few starts... but noise came right back. I've read web blogs on this issue.. but no real solid answers / fixes to the problem...just a lot of complaining.

It burns about 3/4 qt of oil every 1,000 miles too... which is another Honda Gen 8 engine issue. Thinking about overhaul and/or engine replacement in the near future. Body and Interior are immaculate condition.. so the car can easily last for another 200,000 miles but engine is now quickly going down hill in last 20k - 30k miles.

Would love to hear educated/professional advice on possible solutions or recommendations.

thanks all...
 
Hey there, that rattle is common -- as I'm sure you know. I replaced the VTC actuator three times (two under warranty, one myself), replaced the timing chain, timing chain tensioner and all timing chain guides and still have that rattle. I'm at about 150k miles.

I don't know much more than to say it is common and I don't think detrimental to the engine. Oil analyses never looked bad on the motor. I just think the VTC are not that well made. I believe it was a member on here who recommended to me to bump the starter then start the engine to prevent it from rattling. However, I truthfully never followed through in trying that solution.

And My oil consumption was at the same level as yours! I ran 5w-40 and then 15w-40 for a long time with no ill effects. Gas mileage wasn't effected and the engine did consume a whole lot less. I used 5w-40 throughout Buffalo NY winters and it still started well. So I'd assume a 5W-40 in Georgia would be no sweat with your warmer climate.

Best luck!
 
You say, "Body and Interior are immaculate condition."

Get a quality rebuilt motor. The car sounds worth it.

Our bought new by us 181K mile old 2010 Honda Element with the K24 uses about 1/8 quart per 5K OCI (90% freeway driving). However, it has an insane amount of cold engine piston slap. Or at least I think it's piston slap. These motors do that from new, but it's really noticeable now. I've been told the piston skirts are very short in the interest of fuel economy, which causes the noise when cold.

Scott
 
10 year old midsize sedan with 200k on it? No way would I put an engine in it. I'd run it until the engine blows and junk the car.
 
Thanks RedHat and SLO_Town... i like your thoughts. that's where I'm headed down the path... I'm at 5w-30 now and moving to 0w-40 next... to see if I can slow down the oil consumption. It didn't burn a drop of oil up to approx 150,000 and then began burning a little bit more since... now at 3/4 qt. The cold-start rattle really gets under my crawl. It's almost embarrassing when neighbors look over at me when i start my car. Like 'Yeah y'all... it's a Honda and it sounds like sh*t!' LOL.

I've got a local Atlanta Engine shop that is very highly rated and respectable. They recommend spending the $3-4k for an engine replacement if I want to keep the car for another 8-10 years/100,000+ miles. Much cheaper than buying a new and even used car that would be in same or better condition than what my Accord is in. I take pride in keeping it looking sharp...clean/waxed... and leather cleaner/conditioner on the seats... and armor all on the plastic dash, etc. really does look as good as the day I drove it off the lot new.

Appreciate the feedback!
 
$3-4k seems high. I don't know, maybe larger shops with overhead that is the going rate? Friend's shop (that is busy and does well!) price is usually $500-800 labor then a K24Z2 or K24Z3 are going for about $500.
 
That was just a guess...and definitely likely on the high side. That was not a quote from the shop. Let's just say that i'm prepared to pay in upwards of $3 grand if I can get a high quality remanufactured 2.4L engine that turns out to be as good as the original (well... at least for the first 150,000 miles! Ha). I know I couldn't find a decent used car with minimal issues and mechanically near perfect condition for $3k.
 
I have replaced a couple of timing chains in Honda K24's, due to them lengthening. This is usually accompanied by a P0014 trouble code though. (Exhaust cam over advanced). Lots of folks will refer to it as a "stretched" timing chain, when in actuality every drive pin in the chain had worn minutely and made the chain "longer". The noise could be a timing chain tensioner in between two lock points, as there is a ratcheting lock that prevents the tensioner from retracting in the absence of oil pressure. When I built Kia engines (and replaced timing chains on almost any other hydraulicly tensioned chain engine) I would always pry the tensioner arm one more click to set the chains tight. This would prevent startup chain slap. Many Kia V-6 engines that I've had the timing covers off of to fix oil leaks I have done the same thing to, even without replacing the chains. I could always get a click out of the tensioner. I would have to presume that this would be applicable to a K24 as well, especially with this amount of miles. Not saying that this is the exact case in your engine, but if you were to open the engine up for any reason I would recommend replacing the timing chain anyway. It sounds like the car is worth the effort, and with as many worn Honda timing chains I've seen, it would not surprise me if your timing was off by a degree or two. Religious oil changes with the best quality oil and filter will not stave this away either, it's just how they are. Good luck, I'm sure any course of action is wiser than taking on a car payment or instant new car depreciation.
 
Originally Posted by SubieBlue
Thanks RedHat and SLO_Town... i like your thoughts. that's where I'm headed down the path... I'm at 5w-30 now and moving to 0w-40 next... to see if I can slow down the oil consumption. It didn't burn a drop of oil up to approx 150,000 and then began burning a little bit more since... now at 3/4 qt. The cold-start rattle really gets under my crawl. It's almost embarrassing when neighbors look over at me when i start my car. Like 'Yeah y'all... it's a Honda and it sounds like sh*t!' LOL.

I've got a local Atlanta Engine shop that is very highly rated and respectable. They recommend spending the $3-4k for an engine replacement if I want to keep the car for another 8-10 years/100,000+ miles. Much cheaper than buying a new and even used car that would be in same or better condition than what my Accord is in. I take pride in keeping it looking sharp...clean/waxed... and leather cleaner/conditioner on the seats... and armor all on the plastic dash, etc. really does look as good as the day I drove it off the lot new.

Appreciate the feedback!


Good stuff. And furthermore I don't think a 10 year old car is that old. I assume you bleed brakes and change the transmission fluid as part of your ongoing maintenance program. Coolant too. I'm not a Honda fan boy. In fact, our Honda Element is the first Honda I've ever owned, and I've owned 28 cars in my lifetime. But your 2008 Accord and our 2010 Element - they are really straightforward vehicles at their core. IMO, they are repairable. Many new cars appear to be almost unrepairable because of the complexity of their mechanical packaging.

This is slightly off topic, but a few months ago I replaced the front struts/rear shocks on our Element. They seemed fine, but at 170K mile I replaced them out of principle. I bought Honda OEM units from the dealer; new strut bearings, spring pads, etc. Everything. Anyway, when installing the front struts, before even putting the nuts on and tightening - the bolts that held the strut/knuckle assembly so precisely machined and fitted I could detect absolutely no wiggle or slop. I was impressed. Your 2008 is of that same generation.

Scott
 
09 in my sig does the same thing. Minimized by my starting procedure: 1)switch to accessory, wait for all chimes to finish 2) switch back to off 3)switch back to accessory again, wait for chimes to finish 4) start vehicle. Never had more than a half second of grind when using this procedure, wheras neglecting it will induce all kinds of slappy/grindy noise. Have a CR-V in the family that does the same thing. It's a 14 with less than 50k. Having spent plenty of time obsessing over it, I've come to the conclusion that it's not going to grenade the engine and am satisfied with my startup procedure minimizing the amount I have to cringe every time I start it.
 
Originally Posted by SubieBlue
Thanks RedHat and SLO_Town... i like your thoughts. that's where I'm headed down the path... I'm at 5w-30 now and moving to 0w-40 next... to see if I can slow down the oil consumption. It didn't burn a drop of oil up to approx 150,000 and then began burning a little bit more since... now at 3/4 qt. The cold-start rattle really gets under my crawl. It's almost embarrassing when neighbors look over at me when i start my car. Like 'Yeah y'all... it's a Honda and it sounds like sh*t!' LOL.


I have the VTC actuator rattle in our 2012 CRV since about 60k. Vehicle now has 102k, does not consume any oil. Problem is well documented in the CRV and Accord forums. If you are having the same, switching to 0w30 from 0w20 and keeping the OCI to 5k quiet it a bit for me, but it is still noticeable. I just decided to live with it.
 
The only solution we tried on a couple 2012,2013 model Hondas was to install a preoiler which releases a quantity of oil before engine starts. That quieted the rattles. Have since sold all those cars.
 
Originally Posted by henni
The only solution we tried on a couple 2012,2013 model Hondas was to install a preoiler which releases a quantity of oil before engine starts. That quieted the rattles. Have since sold all those cars.


Hmm... could you go into this more in detail?
 
Catching up on the feedback so far. Yes, I have bled the brake lines once on the last premium brake job I had installed. Original brakes lasted 90,000 miles. Last set of brakes were installed at 180,000 miles (3rd set). Will do it again in next 60k-70k miles when next set of brakes are due (expecting approx 80k-90k miles life per brakes). I drain and refill tranny fluid every 30k miles per maintenance schedule with Amsoil Synthetic ATF fluid. Usually is about 3 Qts each time. Tranny shifts very smoothly and is still very quiet. I haven't thought about new struts as of yet as I think the ride and handling hasn't reached a point of noticeable concern or ill handling feel and ride. But may consider it at the 230k mile mark.
I have replaced the PCV valve once after noticing some hesitation and sluggish performance at 160,000 mile mark. Replaced PCV valve and it was back in play. Acceleration and mpg performance was back to normal. Plan to just replace the PCV valve on 60k mile mark just as normal maintenance. It's easy to do and very cheap to replace.
I will try the suggested ignition sequencing and see if that helps. I'm just mechanically curious why the rattle doesn't occur with a warm engine...as in driving it down the street and back...turning it off...then an hour or two later turning the car back on and it doesn't make the sound. But if it's been off for more than 5-6 hours, it will make the sound. I guess I'm just disappointed in my expectation of the largest engine builder in the world and a company that has a good reputation for reliability to make an engine that would do this. Oh well...
 
millerbl00,
What brand and part number did you use on the VTC valve? I would like to try it on my Accord.

Thanks
 
Originally Posted by SubieBlue
The cold-start rattle really gets under my crawl. It's almost embarrassing when neighbors look over at me when i start my car. Like 'Yeah y'all... it's a Honda and it sounds like sh*t!' LOL.



You're kidding right? Your car rattles for a few seconds once or twice a day and your neighbors judge you over it and you care why?
 
Yes, I am kidding. More of an issue with me vs any of my neighbors. I'm a ‘like-new condition' kind of guy. I don't like it when something sounds or runs bad in my vehicles.
 
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