2007 VW GTI 930 miles Castrol Syntec 5w40

[own6volvos]

First oil change on my new car, and surprisingly fast return from blackstone labs (I sent this thing in Saturday night USPS, and I got an email today, Monday). First oil change brought out a lot of material into my drain pan, so I was pretty glad I got out all that junk before the 5k mark listed in the manual.

Here is the screenshot of the analysis

 

[RI_RS4]

Is this the 2.0L Turbo FSI engine? If so, I'd have Terry Dyson interpret your oil analysis results from here on out. This engine most likely has fuel dilution and increased wear, like all of the VW/Audi FSI engines.

 

[VeeDubb]

Thanks for posting this. Do we know that the factory fill in these engines is Syntec 5w-40? I know that's what the dealers use but my 02 Passat used Pentosin 0w-30 as factory fill. The viscosity is low for a 5w-40 with only 930 miles on it.

Also, I do not believe that the universal averages for the 2.0T FSI engine are correct. I have not seen one produce iron as low as 13ppm let alone have that be the average. Did they extrapolate from 1.8T engines?

 

[VeeDubb]

ooops. I just realized the averages must be for the 2.0L normally aspirated engines put into the base model Jettas, Rabbits, etc.

 

[own6volvos]

Quote:

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Is this the 2.0L Turbo FSI engine? If so, I'd have Terry Dyson interpret your oil analysis results from here on out. This engine most likely has fuel dilution and increased wear, like all of the VW/Audi FSI engines.

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Yes it is the FSI engine, but I am not sure how it "has" the fuel dilution and increased wear at this present time. I understand that it could, but it doesn't appear so at this time. Fuel percentage is low, flash point is up, so it was looking decent at least.

 

[own6volvos]

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ooops. I just realized the averages must be for the 2.0L normally aspirated engines put into the base model Jettas, Rabbits, etc.

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Haha, just noticed that too. They put my oil analysis into the wrong bunch. I have the 2.0T FSI engine, not the 2.0L n/a

 

[RI_RS4]

Me thinks this engine would be a good candidate for the Double Super Secret RS4 Racing Oil from Renewable Lubricants. If the results are similar to the RS4, then there should be a significant reduction in iron wear and a longer OCI.

 

[own6volvos]

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Me thinks this engine would be a good candidate for the Double Super Secret RS4 Racing Oil from Renewable Lubricants. If the results are similar to the RS4, then there should be a significant reduction in iron wear and a longer OCI.

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I would love to try that out, but right now with the whole "new car" thing, I dont want to do anything that might cause harm to my warranty. Will that oil ever fall into the offcial 502.00 spec to not void the lubricated engine parts warranty?

 

[RI_RS4]

Blackstone seems to under reports fuel dilution. They make only one measurement which is flashpoint, and then base their fuel % on that. Their flashpoint measurements tend to be a bit high, since the use an open cup test. Closed cup is generally a bit more sensitive.

However, take my thoughts for what they are worth. All Audi/VW FSI engines are known to have fuel dilution issues. The 2.0 TFSI, being the 1st generation design, tends to be a bit worse, which is why the Fe wear numbers trend high.

 

[RI_RS4]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Me thinks this engine would be a good candidate for the Double Super Secret RS4 Racing Oil from Renewable Lubricants. If the results are similar to the RS4, then there should be a significant reduction in iron wear and a longer OCI.

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I would love to try that out, but right now with the whole "new car" thing, I dont want to do anything that might cause harm to my warranty. Will that oil ever fall into the offcial 502.00 spec to not void the lubricated engine parts warranty?

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Probably not. It's an expensive proposition to meet VW/Audi approval. I'm working on an exception for BioSyn, but that's a long shot. Eventually the question you have to ask yourself, as I did, is whether you want to see 300% accelerated wear, because you use "approved" oils. The compromise I made was to run 502 approved oil until 10K miles. At that point I'm pretty darn sure that I'm out of the early infancy failure period. However, based on the testing we've done, there are now Audi RS4 owners who immediately switch to BioSyn 5W-40 in their new engines. As a result, we see wear drop significantly after 2K miles, after removal of the break-in metals.

If you are doing periodic oil analysis, use of BioSyn would not void your warranty. VW would be hard pressed to prove that a motor failure was due to the oil. I always advise anyone using this oil to take periodic samples, as a CYA measure, since things do break in engines, no matter what oil is used.

 

[VeeDubb]

BTW, is it true that the recommended OCI's in these new FSI engines is 10,000 miles? I just heard this in another forum and cannot believe that VW/Audi hasn't learned their lesson from the 1.8T sludge debacle.

 

[RI_RS4]

For Audi it is a 10K OCI. However, the warranty period is only 50K miles, so I believe Audi thinks it's exposure is limit, considering that 502 oils are all synthetic have gobs of detergents. I don't know what VW's OCI is.

 

[own6volvos]

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For Audi it is a 10K OCI. However, the warranty period is only 50K miles, so I believe Audi thinks it's exposure is limit, considering that 502 oils are all synthetic have gobs of detergents. I don't know what VW's OCI is.

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One question I had for you was with the iron wear levels on the FSI engines. Now with the RS4 engine, I understand that it is an aluminum block, but on the 2.0T it is an iron block. Wouldn't the 2.0T engine naturally have higher iron levels in the oil as the cylinder bores wore over time, compared to the RS4 which has much less steel wearing surfaces?

 

[StoicDude]

VW OCI for the 2.0T is 5000 and then 10 000. I am not sure if you do 2 5000 miles intervals and then switch to 10, or if you just do the first at 5000 and then go to 10 000.

RS4, I know that you are very passionate about the BioLube oil and that you have evidence backing it up, but I am also certain that you would be able to go toe to toe with Audi (litigation wise) if you experienced any engine problems and they tried to blame it on oil.

RS4~$75 000
GTI ~ $25 000

Most people driving GTI do not have the time nor money to go to court if VW denies their coverage based on oil.
VW has been pretty outspoken about correct oil use, especially after the sludge issues they had to face.

My recommendation, maybe not the best for your engine, is to stick with 502 00 oil while in warranty. After that run whatever you like.

If you are really concerned about the wear, change the 502 00 oil every 3000, 5000 miles or whatever makes you happy.

 

[agpatel]

That is one think i like to know is how much diff does it make that the block is iron...?

 

[VeeDubb]

Based on the UOA's posted here, I think the iron ppm wear numbers on the 2.0T are exceptionally high even for an iron block. By comparison, the 1.8Ts which also have iron blocks show maybe only 1/5 to 1/3 the iron levels for similar OCIs.

 

[RI_RS4]

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Based on the UOA's posted here, I think the iron ppm wear numbers on the 2.0T are exceptionally high even for an iron block. By comparison, the 1.8Ts which also have iron blocks show maybe only 1/5 to 1/3 the iron levels for similar OCIs.

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Based on our experience with the RS4 engine, I'd guess that it is not the iron cylinders that are showing wear. Cams and chains are the most likely culprits.

 

[own6volvos]

Know of anyone who has installed an aftermarket camshaft to narrow down the high Iron source? It seems like we are taking wild stabs into the dark as to what might be causing high iron content.

 

[RI_RS4]

There is also a fuel pump problem with some 2.0L TFSI engines that will also show up as high iron wear. The high pressure fuel pump for the injection system is driven directly off the camshaft with a tappet. There is a technical service bulletin out on this. A new version of the camshaft has been produced which uses better hardening. It's not clear when this went into production, but it is definitely something to look out for.

 

[VeeDubb]

own6volvos, do you know the build date for your GTI?