2005 Sienna trans issue

[i6pwr]

I want to kick myself for neglecting the transmission, but hoping there's some life in it. We bought the van used with 45K miles, I changed out all the trans fluid to Amsoil and while discussing with a few distributors how the Amsoil can be good for 140K miles, it was in my best judgement to change every 40-50K regardless. Fact is, I have flushed my trans fluid in my 4l60E every 40K and it has 275K with only a separator plate change that had a check ball punched through it....so I was going to care for this one. Fast forward to 210K miles on the van and the shifts felt only slightly softer at times...but I never got around to changing the fluid. I had the fluid flushed with the BG system at approx 211K and shortly after the shifts seemed to hang or engage twice sometimes. I found out the shop only changed the fluid and not the filter/ fluid. I went to the dealer and purchased a new strainer or filter...however it's referred, and changed the filter. Surprisingly enough, the trans shifted pretty good again so i thought maybe it was slightly starving of fluid or has some debris in a solenoid or other small orifice. About 3K miles later it started shifting weird again so I thought maybe more debris was in the filter. I planned on replacing the filter again but the next day the wife called me on her way to work and said the van isn't moving... Props to her as she said she noticed the rpm's start to rise without accelerating then pulled over and called me. I showed up about 45 min later, engine still running...., I checked the fluid, it was red and didn't smell burnt....hmmm. I put in gear and it engaged firmly. I gave it a short drive to check things out, worked fine, and I made it about 15 of the 20 miles home then at a traffic light it felt like it was in neutral. When I revved it up slightly it didn't move slowly as it was slipping or the clutches were smoked, but with about a 500 RPM rise I could feel the clutches start to engage with a firm shudder ...almost like engaging a manual clutch on a slightly warped flywheel. Felt like it needed a little bit more pump pressure to engage then would move the van once they started to engage but never did fully engage. I did this for about 5 seconds to get it off the road to avoid any possible further damage. It felt totally different than a burnt clutch or band, almost like a partial neutral drop without any hard "bang" engagement of the clutch. I parked it then trailered it home, when I drove it on the trailer it engaged fine and didn't slip at all under mild powerbraking. I'm now going through the process to check the filter after I get those daggone hidden bolts out above the sub frame...... So my question is....I don't know if this is a temp issue with a band or clutches, or a slowly clogging filter...or a solenoid. Any thoughts as what to check alongside the filter please chime in? Thanks!

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Machine flushing like BG is almost always bad, and almost every automaker specifically says NOT to do that! Your Sienna has a drain plug for the transmission, so a fluid change is very easy. Using synthetic ATF every 30k is more than sufficient. Are you sure you have a Sienna and not an Odyssey? (the Ody is known for its frequent transmission failure, even with annual fluid changes with Honda OEM Z1/DW1 isn;t enough to save it)

 

[i6pwr]

Ha...yeah, the reason we went with the Sienna was because of the Honda trans issues. Point taken on the fluid. Totally my bad. I removed the strainer and the filter media looked to be sucked in hard to the filter housing. Fluid looked real good, no hint of a burning smell. Thoughts on maybe removing the 3 solenoids and cleaning them or is that necessary? This orange RTV-like material is what has me nervous....found this in the pan.

 

[The Critic]

If the filter was sucked in that hard, is it possible that the pump is unable to properly pump fluid from the pan? When the filter was replaced, did you also replace the o-ring on the filter unit? On some OE Toyota trans filters, the o-ring is sold separately and is not included with the replacement filter.

 

[Trav]

The machine probably loosened all sorts of junk and deposited it in the bottom of the pan where it is clogging the filter. If doing a line off drain and fill or a machine it is always good practice to drop the pan and change the filter. The RTV is residue left over from sealing the pan instead of a gasket, use a real gasket if one is available. RTV sucks in every way for pan applications, its nothing more than a inexpensive shortcut for the manufacturer and a leak prone Mickey Mouse job for repairs.

 

[i6pwr]

The pan wasn't removed by the shop, I changed the filter afterwards and it was the original filter. The pan had the original gasket, I bought an OEM filter and gasket. More great news....the radiator had a leak near the side, I checked the coolant just prior to this incident where it would not engage a gear, and all looked good. I pulled the radiator cap today and there is some pink goop and I believe the trans cooler also has leaked into the coolant. No pink sludge in the trans but that doesnt mean it's not contaminated. There's a slim chance I may get lucky, will see what happens after the new radiator and some flushing. Any recommendations on getting the coolant passages cleaned out? Could be from low coolant and residual vapor...but doubt it.

 

[clinebarger]

Send off a sample of the ATF to make sure it doesn't have coolant in it. It's unusual for a Toyota cooler to fail. A clogged filter could definitely explain your symptoms

 

[JLTD]

Classic example of why not to do a flush at high mileage. Might be able to save it if things aren't that bad, with the filter clogged like that it was probably just starved of fluid. Put it all together with a new filter, cross your fingers and repeat every 5k miles until the filter is clean.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: JLTD

Classic example of why not to do a flush at high mileage.

No, a classic example of a half arsed job by not changing the filter after stirring up the muck.

 

[edwardh1]

keep us posted please

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Trav

No, a classic example of a half arsed job by not changing the filter after stirring up the muck.

This is also what I think happened.

 

[supton]

Is it a strainer or filter? If a strainer then that must be some pretty large crud.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Originally Posted By: JLTD

Classic example of why not to do a flush at high mileage.

No, a classic example of a half arsed job by not changing the filter after stirring up the muck.

Good point but in an old trans flush, even with a new filter the gunk shaken loose could still clog it...

 

[Trav]

AFAIK there is no machines today that "flush" transmissions although they may be called that. They remove fluid from the out port of the transmission into the machine and the machine pumps the amount coming out into the same line but on the other side of it going to the inlet. It is nothing more than a mechanized line off. New fluid tend to stir up and dislodge any dirt inside the unit so its always a good idea to change the filter regardless of the method used even if the unit has a drain plug. This believe it or not is the reason so many vehicles with real filter material have no drain plug which are more common on those with rock catchers. Drain plugs are great for keeping the mess to a minimum but unfortunately it also causes people to do drain and fills without touching the filter which on an older/higher mileage unit is probably not be the best thing.

 

[nthach]

Toyota uses a orange RTV to seal their tranny pans from the factory, for the rare exception of the 1990-2000 Lexus LS400 and the 4th gen Supras you can get a gasket from the dealer for service. Try changing the filter and O-ring with an OEM filter and filling up the transmission with a high-viscosity fluid like T-IV/3309 or Castrol IMV. The much-exalted MaxLife can cause some funny feeling shifting not immediately but as it ages in the Sienna U151Es for some unknown reason.

 

[i6pwr]

Last weekend I changed the trans filter...again, and also replaced the radiator. The radiator had a very small leak on the sides and when I removed the transmission pan, I noticed there was a small hint of pink goop in the bottom of the pan but just barely a film. So I opened the radiator cap and there was some pink goop in the cap. Appears the trans cooling lines may have been just starting to leak and I caught it just in time. I put about 50 miles on it and it shifts beautifully the only problem now is I have a check engine light and I don't have 5th gear. Going from 4th to 5th, it will come out of 4th but then go to neutral then the check engine light, and then it just locks out 5th. At this point it's just 1st through 4th. Code is P0985. In appears that the shift solenoid may have some debris inside keeping it from working... not sure. Can I replace the solenoid without removing the valve body? What is entailed with replacing the solenoid for engaging 5th gear? I figure at this point anything is worth a shot.

 

[nthach]

Glycol in a automatic transmission is almost always death to one - it attacks the clutch friction material. That's why it's good practice to not use funnels or containers that have been used for coolant to handle ATF. The solenoids on a Toyota transmission are accessible without removing the valve body for the most part.

 

[i6pwr]

I want to say the glycol didn't really attack the trans, it was just starting to cross contaminate. If it even did, I want to say the trans fluid made it into the coolant more than the opposite. I had residue around the radiator cap and a slight film in the hoses. I cleaned it all out and there was barely a hint of pink in the trans pan, you could wipe it with a kleenex. There are solenoids next to the trans filter, not sure if there's clearance to pull them though with the valve body in place.

 

[nthach]

You never know - it just takes a trace amount to start a cascading effect. The solenoids aren't seated that deep and I think a flat-rate tech at the dealer doesn't drop the valve body to access them. I say pull the solenoid and look for any big chunks of clutch friction besides the usual fine buildup.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: i6pwr

Code is P0985. In appears that the shift solenoid may have some debris inside keeping it from working... not sure. Can I replace the solenoid without removing the valve body? What is entailed with replacing the solenoid for engaging 5th gear?

P0985 is a SR Solenoid control circuit SHORT TO GROUND trouble code, Coolant contamination is unlikely to cause this code. Especially after the coolant has been removed. Debris in the solenoid would cause mechanical issues & set P0771 SHIFT SOLENOID "E" PERFORMANCE (SHIFT SOLENOID VALVE SR)......Basically, The ECM cannot control the SR Solenoid even though it's "electrically" sound. If you want my help to diagnose this correctly, I will gladly help!! I have wasted my time & resources before trying to help people that ONLY want to shotgun parts at trouble codes.....Not anymore!!