2004 Honda Accord maintenance

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Originally Posted By: JOD
If you check out the link I posted in the DW-1 thread, it's definitely backwards-compatible. As far as the filter, what I figured out on the CRV is that very few had an external filter, most didn't. As it turned out, ones which are factory-rebuilt units have an external filter.

I never did figure out if there was an internal filter or not, but I didn't worry about it.


Yes, I read the same thing when I asked google about it. Link here: http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=879338

Now I'm skeptical by nature. That info appears to be copied and pasted from somewhere, but there's no direct link to anything that I can truly verify as Honda info. Looks legit, but I'm not 100% convinced yet. At this point I'll likely use DW-1, but I'll definitely call a stealership and confirm first.

As far as that filter goes, I drove over to the car lot this morning to look the car over further and talk to the owner/mechanic some more... I want as much detail as possible. $7000 is a big investment for me. Anyhow, I noticed that there IS what appears to be a filter on the return line from the transmission cooler- a little can-looking thing clipped to the top of the transmission case. Looks easy to change, and the lines look easy to splice for a tranny cooler- which I will definitely be installing based on what I've read about Honda transmissions and their heat issues.

Got a little more detailed info from the lot owner/mechanic. I expected that he would be a little more forthcoming now that the contract has been signed, I have the cashier's check, and I've made arrangements to pick up the car on Tuesday (gotta get a state highway patrol inspection to verify the out-of-state title). He showed me exactly what was repaired on the car. Like I said earlier, he replaced the driver's side front fender and the bumper- they body shop did an awesome job on the paint... you have to look really close to tell that it isn't factory. There's some very minor damage at the base of the driver's side windshield pillar... the repair there is a bit sloppy, but it's negligibly small, invisible from 10-feet away. He straightened the sub frame, replaced the radiator (cheap Chinese Autozone radiator), the steering wheel airbag, and the drive'r side seatbelt (both bought from Honda).

Looking the car over, i can see that both battery cables need to be replaced. The battery is a die-hard, so it's been replaced at some point... but it's leaking at the hot post, and I'll probably put a Walmart battery in there. There appears to be a leak at the master cylinder- can't tell for sure if it's leakage or spillage. I'll clean it off and keep an eye on it. There's also a small leak from somewhere down around the power steering rack. This concerned me a bit until I looked up the worst-case scenario on RockAuto. Worst-case, a new rack & pinion will cost me $180-ish... much cheaper than I expected. A new master cylinder is around $70. I'll clean off the whole area and keep an eye on it. None of the fluid levels are low, so I don't think it's THAT big of a leak.

The oddball tires that I mentioned earlier are Riken Raptors. Aybody know anything about them? A little googling reveals that these are cheap tires, advertised as 'performance' tires. Made in Indonesia, affiliated with (or at least marketed by) Michelin. Anyhow, the tires appear to be close to new. And looking through the widely-spaced wheel spokes, I can see that the front and rear brake pads have been recently replaced. Looks like the front rotors are new, while the rear ones have been re-used, and some monkey put radial scratches in the rotor... to 'break the glaze' I'd imagine.
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Overall I still think I've got one [censored] of a deal. Oh, and I noticed today that this thing has heated seats.
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Originally Posted By: onion
Quote:
I kind of figured this is what happened, a sudden and complete transmission failure. It's something that I always worry about happening on any high-milage car I own. Did it have the TH125? It seemed to have a tendency to suddenly go out sometime after 100k miles without any warnings. Of course other automatics can do that as well.


My '94 Corsica had the 4T60E transmission. Just for fun, I'll give you it's birth-to-death maintenance history... might be kinda instructive since we know exactly how many years/miles it lasted, and under what conditions.

To my knowledge, the transmission was never serviced until I moved in with my (now) wife in 2000. Shortly thereafter, at 80,000 miles, I did a drain-and-fill with Supertech ATF, and installed a transmission drain plug. At 100,000 miles (2002ish) I installed a home-made filter base, filtering the ATF through a PF53 oil filter... also installed a cheap transmission cooler. 80k: Supertech fluid and filter. 100k, Supertech fluid and filter. 120k, Supertech fluid and filter. 140k, Dexron VI fluid, new filter. 170k, Allison Transynd (synthetic- rated TES-295 and DexIIIG on the bottle), no new (internal)filter. The spin-on oil filters on my homemade filter base were replaced approximately every year/15k. I was pretty conservative with those since it was a homemade setup and I really didn't want to plug a cooler line.

Anyway, through 2006, we used this car for a combination of lots of stop & go city driving and short trips, as well occasional road trips every couple of months across the barren wastes of eastern CO, western KS. In 2006 (130k~ miles), we bought the '01 Lumina, and I inherited this car. Thereafter, it saw 90% stop and go driving and short trips... with long trips only on rare occasions.

And as you know, the transmission failed at 182k with zero warning. I was driving on I-75, going up and down big hills (they call 'em mountains) in Kentucky. Wasn't particularly hot that day- maybe 80 degrees. The car was running perfectly, no overheating. It DID have an overheating problem back in 2000-2001, but I took care of that long long ago.

So there's the whole story. I guess it goes to show that obsessive maintenance can make a vehicle last, but it's no guarantee against sudden, catastrophic failure.


I guess your '94 had the 3100 and I think was the first year for the 4T60E. It doesn't seem like your maintenance would had any negative effect and should've increased the life. I probably would've not put the oil filter in the cooler line but I doubt it would cause a restriction. Sounds like the transmission was wearing fine and one of the many parts in an automatic let go. No telling what the problem is without a scanner and pressure guage test. I'm not an AT guy but I'd guess it is something that would require major disassembly. But 180K miles isn't bad.

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I think 4cylinder Accord ATs have an inline filter in a cooler line near the transmission. I'm not completely sure if your model has one, but i think it does.


Hmmm... yeah, I think I remember reading about that somewhere here on BITOG. An external ATF filter... that's impressive if true. I'll do some googling.

Speaking of ATF, I did some googling on the DW-1 fluid mentioned earlier in this thread. Info is a little sketchy, but DW-1 appears to be fully synthetic, and fully backwards-compatible with Z1 (it must be- because they're discontinuing Z1). I'll do a little more looking around to confirm this, but I'll likely do my first drain & fill with DW-1.


Yeah I think the Accord 4 cyl AT has the little filter in the line. I assume this one is the 4cyl. I think the DW-1 is backwards compatibilty and a better ATF for the price. I plan on using it in older Honda ATs.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
FWIW our 2003 Accord V6 does not have a transmission filter.


I've heard the V6 model has a filter that is accessible under a cover from the top. I'm not sure which years or models. I know that some Honda AT have a filter of sorts that is not accessible. It seems Honda puts their filters in all kinds of different places and it is like an Easter egg hunt lol. And for whatever reason they don't seem to emphasize their replacement.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: cchase
FWIW our 2003 Accord V6 does not have a transmission filter.


I've heard the V6 model has a filter that is accessible under a cover from the top. I'm not sure which years or models. I know that some Honda AT have a filter of sorts that is not accessible. It seems Honda puts their filters in all kinds of different places and it is like an Easter egg hunt lol. And for whatever reason they don't seem to emphasize their replacement.


Don't know. We just had the fluid changed on ours and by default I asked them to change the filter, too and was told it did not have one.
 
Good find!
This generation of Accord has a clockwise-turning engine mounted backward in the car, relative to every previous Honda (output on driver's side) and a chain, not a belt, for the cam.
The EX will eat any car you've ever owned for lunch, particularly at higher speeds.
Based upon what you've posted, the salvage title should be of no issue in the reliability and durability of the car.
You did your homework on it.
You've bought a nice machine.
Welcome to the Honda family.
These things are really reliable and trouble-free.
Any Honda is both economical and fast, and also not fussy about oil.
Any XW-20 or -30 will do just fine.
 
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Welcome to the Honda family.


I've already caught myself making snide comments about GM quality.
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Well, there is surface quality, and there is mechanical integrity.
The average Honda beats the average GM product in both areas.
Also, Hondas are entertaining to drive, something which cannot be said for most GM (or Ford or Chrysler) products.
We have owned at least one or two of them for the past thirty years or so for a reason, and it isn't because we drank any kool-aid.
 
I should clarify that I HAVE worked on imports... which only just occurred to me. I've worked on more Mercedes diesels in heavy trucks than I could shake a stick at.

So I'm not at all uncomfortable with the idea of working on an import... but I do know from experience that they are not necessarily configured or put together the same way that a 'conventional' American design would be. Again, I know from experience that if you take a guy who's used to working on Cummins, Detroit, and John Deere engines... and you tell him to go work on a Mercedes... there's going to be some cussin' and some trial-and-error before he figures it out. I imagine that the transition from my familiar Chevys to this Honda will be similar.

I'll probably start out by changing the oil and tranny fluid. I have to replace the battery cables, and clean off the area around and under the master cylinder. Need to find out exactly what coolant ol' Jihad filled this system with, and see if I want to keep it or replace it. And there's that broken transmission mount. After that, it should be drivable around town... but I'll probably get it aligned before I hand it over to the wife for her 50-mile round-trip commutes. Plenty of other maintenance to do besides this stuff, but the rest can wait a little while 'til I get more time. And money.
 
Doing that work on the CRV gave me a new appreciation for Honda, or renewed it would be more accurate.

I bought an '88 CRX new when I got out of college, the only new car I ever bought to this day. Almost 200K trouble-free miles, then it died a fiery death on the interstate. I got a recall notice in the mail a month later (no joke).

When I learned that 2 decades later they were still using manually-adjustable valves, I was pretty surprised, and slightly annoyed. Yet, getting the valve cover off was a snap, the adjustment was easy, and the car seems like it was designed for easy service. Same for draining/filling the transmission, differential, doing plugs, etc. The belts were easily-accessible. All of the underhood electrial wiring looks particularly robust; heavier gauge wiring wrapped in conduit, heatshrink wrapped and then covered in plastic housing.

All-in-all, it was a pretty solid machine. It's still a total chick car, but it's a solid machine nonetheless.
 
I picked up the vehicle in question this morning. Excuse the poor photo quality... my phone is a dinosaur.

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Besides paperwork, the first order of business was the battery cables. The hot cable was corroded pretty badly, and the ground terminal was stretched at couldn't be tightened onto the post.

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I did a little research the other day, and this positive cable is ridiculously complicated... sortof it own little wiring harness. Costs $50+ depending on where you buy it. Well money is tight lately (having to buy a replacement vehicle on short notice among other things)... so I wasn't about to pay that. So I paid $5 for a pair of side-post adapters, cut off the OEM terminals, soldered on some new eyelets, and sealed it all up with heat-shrink. Looks a little ghetto... but such is my life. I think it'll be a good and permanent repair, if a little ugly.

As a bonus, there are now some nice BIG chunks of lead for the wife to clamp jumper cables onto should the need arise. A few years ago she tried to jump start her parents' vehicle with her Lumina- which as some of you may know has a well-hidden battery and a remote jump-starting stud. That was a fiasco. This should be much easier.

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I talked to the lot owner/mechanic today when I picked up the car. He showed me pictures of the car before it was repaired... the pictures were exactly as he described the other day. The bumper and fender were ruined, and the car was totaled out because the front subframe was bent. He had a Honda minivan on his frame straightner today- fixing it up for his wife. He says he's been doing this for 15 years, so hopefully he knows what he's doing. I'm pretty sure he does... but the real test will be when I go get this car aligned. It actually drives very well right now, but I want to have it aligned to be more certain that everything is straight and sound.

Since he replaced the radiator, I casually asked what antifreeze he used. He pointed out a bottle of regular green Peak antifreeze. I ain't too happy about that... now I reckon that a cooling system flush is in order when I can get around to it. I hear that Honda coolant concentrate is hard to come by, but that it does exist. I'll have to do some looking around.

Also I see that a bracket on the air cleaner box is broken. Nothing critical I think, but I need to look into it a little more closely. I'll have the piece out probably on Thursday when I investigate the engine & trans. mounts, so I'll patch or replace as necessary. I don't see anything wrong with the 'front' or side engine mounts... but what I can see of the trans mount looks iffy at best, and it IS very close to where the car was wrecked.

I've done some research and found that engine vibration- particularly at idle and with the a/c on, but also sometimes on the highway- is a common problem with these cars. A service bulletin says to replace the 'front' mount (mine already has the new style though according to the VIN number), then loosen and re-torque all motor mount bolts to remove any tension between mounts. Considering this car's history, the engine cradle geometry could easily have changed... and tension between mounts will affect the dampening properties. So I'll probably replace that trans mount, then loosen and re-torque all mounts.

If that doesn't take care of the vibration, maybe I'll look into a valve adjustment. No telling whether or not that's ever been done before, so I'm operating on the assumption that it hasn't. I have my eye on a Honda factory service manual on Ebay... I'd prefer not to go into that job completely blind.
 
Either stiff or loose engine/tranny mounts can add to idle vibration.
But the engine is #1 to check.
Valve adjustment? Probably needs it and will then be good for another 50,000+ miles.
Do a nice careful job.
Vacuum leaks in any lines or manifolding are critical to idle quality.
Of course, your ignition must be in top shape. Throw in a set of plugs when you do the valve adjustment.
Unbalanced injectors can be a problem, but simply use a tank or two of good injector/valve cleaner. [Techron or Regane]
 
The engine itself is very smooth- but at times it seems like it's bolted directly to the frame or something. Hopefully the trans mount will take care of this.

One thing I noticed while fixing up the battery cables is just how tiny the negative cable is. It's 8-gauge wire... not much bigger than what my GM's use for their main alternator wire. Yet the hot cables are pretty big- there's two of them, and they're easily as big as what I'd expect to see on an American vehicle. Also, there's only that single tiny cable going from the ground post to the fender, then a strap going from the body to the engine block- nothing directly from the battery ground to the engine block. I don't care for that design, and obviously I know better than Honda... so I might just buy me a cheap battery cable with two eyelets- bolt one to my ghetto battery post, and the other to the engine block. I'm sure it's not really necessary, but it would make me feel better.

I can only imagine how conventional Honda owners are cringing right now. I'm definitely more at home working on a John Deere or a Freightliner than on a Honda. Looking through the owners manual, I see that Honda recommends 5w20 for this engine in all temperature ranges. The other day on a Honda forum, though- I ran across an oil viscosity chart for this same engine sold in Mexico. They recommended a range of viscosities depending on ambient temperature... INCLUDING 15W40 for temps above -10 F. It would make me so happy to be able to dump some of my massive stash of 15w40 into this engine... but I'm fighting the urge. This IS an entirely different machine than what I'm used to... must not give in to old habits. Yet.

Wonder how Transynd would run in this transmission?

Looking through the owner's manual, I've found a receipt for a 30,000 mile service- including the name, address, and phone no. of the original owner. Good to know that she was doing at least some maintenance... at the dealer no less.

Maybe I'll call her and ask about the cars history- or do ya'll think that would be considered creepy? Personally, I'd be interested to hear from people who've bought my previous vehicles (though most of those would be junkyards, probably)... but I'm not sure if this inquiry would be welcome among normal people.
 
Honestly, you can easily do the valve adjustment without the manual. I just used this and this . The second link was particularly useful.
 
Looks simple enough. Do you know what the clearance specs are? Looks like .009" intake and .012" exhaust, but it isn't explicitly stated in either write-up.

What about the valve cover gasket? Is it reusable or do I need to get a new one?
 
Originally Posted By: onion
Looks simple enough. Do you know what the clearance specs are? Looks like .009" intake and .012" exhaust, but it isn't explicitly stated in either write-up.

What about the valve cover gasket? Is it reusable or do I need to get a new one?


Yeah, that's the spec on the CR-V. Just to double-check though, the valve clearance is listed on a sticker on the underside of the hood. I think all the K24's are the same but just check the sticker.

I bought a new gasket and changed it since it was 7 years old (and it comes with the spark plug seals and bolt seals). The entire Felpro kit was less than $30.00 IIRC. That said, it was actually unnecessary. All of the gaskets looked fine. The only thing you'll really need for sure is some grey Permatex to put on the corners of the gasket.
 
onion, engine vibration is normal at idle. Our 2009 does it all the time. I took it to the dealer and the service manager said he could demonstrate any 4cyl Accord on the lot will do it. Keep in mind the only thing Honda will do is dampen the vibration, not actually make the engine smooth in gear.

To verify, put in Reverse (reverse tends to make it worse, because more load with reverse lights and brake lights on), turn on A/C and headlights. Check for vibration, then drop it in neutral. Does the vibration go away?

That said, your 04 probably didn't have this TSB done:

Service Bulletin
 2004 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved ATB 26704 (0405) 1 of 4
CUSTOMER INFORMATION: The information in this bulletin is intended for use only by skilled technicians who have the proper tools, equipment,
and training to correctly and safely maintain your vehicle. These procedures should not be attempted by “do-it-yourselfers,” and you should not assume
this bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle has the condition described. To determine whether this information applies, contact an
authorized Honda automobile dealer.
May 4, 2004
04-024
Applies To: 2003 Accord L4 A/T – ALL
2004 Accord L4 A/T 2-door – From VIN 1HGCM7...4A000001 thru 1HGCM7...4A009608
2004 Accord L4 A/T 4-door – From VIN 1HGCM5...4A000001 thru 1HGCM5...4A057899
2004 Accord L4 A/T 4-door – From VIN 3HGCM5...4G700001 thru 3HGCM5...4G703063
2004 Accord L4 A/T 4-door – From VIN JHMCM5...4C000001 thru JHMCM5...4C028489
Engine Vibrates While Idling In Gear
SYMPTOM
Excessive vibration is felt in the seat and steering
wheel when the transmission is put in Drive or
Reverse. The vibration may be worse in cold weather
or with loads, such as with the A/C on or when the
steering wheel is turned.
PROBABLE CAUSE
Not enough engine dampening.
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Based on the VIN, do either REPAIR PROCEDURE A
or REPAIR PROCEDURE B.


Replace the front engine mount. Loosen and then
torque all engine mounting bolts.
REPAIR PROCEDURE B:
Replace the front engine mount, loosen and then
torque all engine mounting bolts, and install the
engine idle smoothing kit.
PARTS INFORMATION
Front Engine Mount:
P/N 50830-SDA-A04, H/C 7622301
Engine Idle Smoothing Kit:
P/N 50830-SDA-999, H/C 7637044
(Kit contains 4 bolts, 2 lower radiator mounts, 2 upper
radiator mount washers, and 1 front bumper mass.)
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
In warranty: The normal warranty applies.
Failed Part: P/N 50830-SDA-A02
H/C 7138902
Defect Code: 09999
Symptom Code: 04505
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Out of warranty: Any repair performed after warranty
expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by
the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone
Office. You must request consideration, and get a
decision, before starting work.
REPAIR PROCEDURE A
2004 Accord 2-door from VIN 1HGCM7...4A000022
thru 1HGCM7...4A009608
2004 Accord 4-door from VIN 1HGCM5...4A000085
thru 1HGCM5...4A057899
2004 Accord 4-door from VIN 3HGCM5...4G700003
thru 3HGCM5...4G703063
2004 Accord 4-door from VIN JHMCM5...4C000038
thru JHMCM5...4C028489
1. Remove the vacuum hose from the vacuum line
that is next to the front engine mount.
OP# Description FRT
112118 Install the front engine mount, and loosen
and torque all engine mounting bolts
(REPAIR PROCEDURE A)
112119 Install the front engine mount, loosen and
torque all engine mounting bolts, install
the engine idle smoothing kit.
(REPAIR PROCEDURE B)
 
Yes, after doing lots of reading, I've gathered that engine vibration is a common complaint with these cars- common enough to be considered 'normal'. I've seen that service bulletin before, and have a copy printed out. My VIN doesn't fall within the specified range, so in theory I already have the new-style front mount. But considering that the front subframe has been bent and straightened, engine cradle geometry could easily have changed, and my car would probably benefit from the mount loosening & tightening procedure outlined in that bulletin. I'll try to do that on Thursday when I replace the broken upper trans. mount (pulled out the air cleaner and looked everything over closely last night- that mount is definitely broken).

There are some other procedures to address this idle complaint, and I'll look into them as I get time. First, the valves can be adjusted- that can affect idle quality. And at 85k, I'm assuming that this hasn't been done before and that it's pretty much due. I'll also replace the spark plugs while I'm in there... but this will have to wait a bit due to time/money.

Secondly, there's an idle-relearn procedure. I don't remember what all is involved, but they spell it out on a couple of Accord forums. I'll probably do this after I adjust the valves.

I picked up lots of fluids and a trans. mount at the Honda dealer today. They had the same price for the mount as Autozone and the like... but actually had it in stock. The people at this dealership insisted that "at least for now" the new DW-1 fluid is not approved for this vehicle. They probably just want to get rid of their old stock of Z1... but I'm leery of this transmission and unwilling to take a chance on it at this point. So I bought 7 qts of z1. I'll do a drain & fill and a bucket-flush. Also picked up some Honda p/s fluid and some Type 2 coolant. They didn't have the concentrate and I'm running low on time/money/ambition here... so a drain & fill of the cooling system will have to do. I doubt anything will come of whatever remains of the green Zerex.

I'm already driving the car around town, but don't want to release it to the wife for her long commutes 'til all the important maintenance is caught up. I'll have the car aligned tomorrow at an independent shop specializing in imports- Jihad recommended them. $80 for a 4 wheel alignment seems a little steep by Pep-boys standards... but I'm hoping that their skill level will be a little higher, and I'm willing to pay for that. Also, this shop routinely aligns Jihad's reconstructed wrecks, so they should have some experience in what kind of work he does and what they need to look for.

Rather than "Best Import"... I think he should rename that lot "Jihad's Reconstructed Wrecks". It would definitely get attention.
 
onion,

If you come across something that works, I'd be very interested. So far, everything I've read on it implies nothing fixes it. In fact, I personally believe Honda engineered it this way.

It doesn't really bother me. It did at first, but I guess I've grown accustomed to the fact it isn't going to be smooth like my 4.8 GM.
 
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