2003 Honda Accord 235k km Camshaft lobe wear. Could this be due to 0W-20 ?

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asker123

Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
154
Location
Manitoba, Canada
Car runs pretty smooth actually. Left the car with the mechanic for Vtech solenoid gasket change and Valve Cover Gasket change and he reportted back that he sees Cam Shaft lobe wearing out for Cylinder 1. He says that I can get a misfire or something if that wears out further. Not happy with this because I heard that these cars have run for 1Million Miles in US which is 1.6M Kms.

Car always used 5W20 oil from 2003 till 2022. Last two years I moved to 0W20 Mobil1 extended performance oil and I change oil only once a year now. I did the change as I thought 0W20 will be better for Cold start on those crazy extreme cold days of Manitoba -25 Deg C.

I need this car to last me 5 more years. Is it possible? It is May right now and Mechanic just put my supplied 0W20 oil today . If I dont change anything this oil will be in car till 2026 May. I drive around 10000 kms per year most City drive and some highway drive now and then. Will shifting to 5W30 can help?

Anything else?
 
Honda camshaft failures are not unheard of, if you search for that on this forum, you will find many examples. It's a metallurgical issue AFAIK (likely poor QC on the heat treatment as I believe the cams are SADI) so it's likely that using a different oil would not have prevented it.
 
22 year old car (with a history of camshaft failures, but not a huge issue from what I understand) with 235,000KM's on clock, I would think it's plausible. The oil, however, 20 or 30 weight, wouldn't have prevented anything.
 
asker123 said:
Car runs pretty smooth actually. Left the car with the mechanic for Vtech solenoid gasket change and Valve Cover Gasket change and he reportted back that he sees Cam Shaft lobe wearing out for Cylinder 1. He says that I can get a misfire or something if that wears out further. Not happy with this because I heard that these cars have run for 1Million Miles in US which is 1.6M Kms.

Car always used 5W20 oil from 2003 till 2022. Last two years I moved to 0W20 Mobil1 extended performance oil and I change oil only once a year now. I did the change as I thought 0W20 will be better for Cold start on those crazy extreme cold days of Manitoba -25 Deg C.

I need this car to last me 5 more years. Is it possible? It is May right now and Mechanic just put my supplied 0W20 oil today . If I dont change anything this oil will be in car till 2026 May. I drive around 10000 kms per year most City drive and some highway drive now and then. Will shifting to 5W30 can help?

Anything else?
Click to expand...
Had a '03 Honda Element from new started having cam wear visible through the oil fill. That was around 180k miles. Drove it till 214k miles sold it running fine. Always used 5W20 at 5k miles change interval. Last I asked the car has 270k miles no issue. Do a GM fix go to a heavier oil and drive it till it won't. YMMV
 
andrew_j said:
The engines that last 1 million miles are not city driven. They have driven exclusively highway.

It likely will last 5 years with a repair(s). I would expect that of any 20+ year old car.
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These 235k kms, you can say 75% are highway miles. That is the reason, I am.little disappointed. Age of the car should have nothing to do with engine performance if oil is changed regularly.

The mechanic did not take pics. When I went to pick up the car , he said that it's not immediately need to be changed but it will get worse over time.

Can it fail randomly and make me stranded on a highway? What are symptoms that I should be looking for?

He gave rough estimate of Canadian $ 4000 +
I don't think I will put that much my net I to it even though it has no structural.issues and no rust.

I need it running for next five years @ 10000 kms per year.
 
asker123 said:
These 235k kms, you can say 75% are highway miles. That is the reason, I am.little disappointed. Age of the car should have nothing to do with engine performance if oil is changed regularly.

The mechanic did not take pics. When I went to pick up the car , he said that it's not immediately need to be changed but it will get worse over time.

Can it fail randomly and make me stranded on a highway? What are symptoms that I should be looking for?

He gave rough estimate of Canadian $ 4000 +
I don't think I will put that much my net I to it even though it has no structural.issues and no rust.

I need it running for next five years @ 10000 kms per year.
Click to expand...

It's usually gradual. You will get a check engine light because it will start misfiring.

snowblower

Thread 'opinions on the root cause of this exhaust valve failure'

Can anyone offer an opinion on the root cause of this exhaust valve failure. In particular, the white residue that accumulated on the failed valve. It is cylinder 6 of a Honda J35A7 engine in a 2010 Odyssey Ex-L. The engine has 256k km (160k mile). I've owned the vehicle since new. It has been maintanined per the maintenance schedule. No late oil changes, and no significant oil consumption problems. No serious problems until recently when it developped a persistent misfire on cylinder six. It had an S-VCM brand VCM disabler installed 26 months ago at 218k km (136k miles). I don't think...
 
A high cost is normal for a shop. Likely they would do the whole timing set, they prefer not to have to go into it again for free.
If they have to for warranty they charge a bunch for the just in case.
 
If it is the K24 (2.4L in line 4) which I assume it is, as you mentioned a single valve cover, then cam wear isn't a widespread issue. I would go so far as to say there aren't very many if any wide spread issues with the K24. There is the VTV gear but even that isn't a super common issue. This is a reason the k24 is easily one of, if not the best 4 cylinder engine ever built.

Now I'll say this the K24 when originally released was spec'd for 5w-30. After the US sold cars were re-spec'd 5w-20 the Japanese engines were spec's 5w-30 still.

Now as the k24 has roller rockers and solid lifters. Lubrication of such a set up with 5w-20 is fine as it's a fairly low friction set up if your valves are properly adjusted.

Now that last part is an interesting note. As due to heat and the valves bumping into the seat constantly during engine operation, the valve seats especially on the exhaust side recess into the head over time. This causes the lash for the valve to reduce. (Side note some guys think it's because Honda sets the valves too tight on the exhaust side from factory they don't it's just physics.) Which causes the valve to lift more and puts more pressure on the cam. More pressure more wear, more wear well more wear.

TLDR: oil is very unlikely to be the issue or to have fixed it except to change it more often may have helped some. The issue is more likely caused by metallurgical issues during casting of the cam or improper valve clearance due to unadjusted valves your solid lifter engine.
 
Keep in mind the longer you let it go like that if the lobe is wearing down, it will continue to dump metal into the oil. As the clearance continues to increase, the faster it will wear.
 
I used 5w30 in my 2010 Odyssey and it had similar heavy wear on one or two of the intake cams. Not real uncommon with high-mileage Odysseys from that time. I think it's a metallurgy issue.
 
mattd said:
Keep in mind the longer you let it go like that if the lobe is wearing down, it will continue to dump metal into the oil. As the clearance continues to increase, the faster it will wear.
Click to expand...

I am unlikely to fix this issue. It is not giving me any problem as such. I will just keep driving the car.
As I said earlier, I want it to drive just fine for another 5 years @10000 kms a year with one oil change per year in spring. Brakes are new, Tires are great. AC and Heat works just fine.
Now for Year 1, 0W20 has already been put in it just yesterday so no benefit taking it out and it is Mobil1 0W20 EP which is highly regarded on this forum. I have one more jug of it for Year 2.
In years 3 , 4 & 5, I might just switch to 5W20 or even 5W30. I switched from 5W20 to 0W20 because in crazy winter days of -20 deg C or less, I perceived that it started my car much easier even through I put the block heater on. Car has to be run 10 to 15 minutes before I can start so perhaps that starting idling with cold oil is causing the internal engine wear like this lobe.
 
asker123 said:
I am unlikely to fix this issue. It is not giving me any problem as such. I will just keep driving the car.
As I said earlier, I want it to drive just fine for another 5 years @10000 kms a year with one oil change per year in spring. Brakes are new, Tires are great. AC and Heat works just fine.
Now for Year 1, 0W20 has already been put in it just yesterday so no benefit taking it out and it is Mobil1 0W20 EP which is highly regarded on this forum. I have one more jug of it for Year 2.
In years 3 , 4 & 5, I might just switch to 5W20 or even 5W30. I switched from 5W20 to 0W20 because in crazy winter days of -20 deg C or less, I perceived that it started my car much easier even through I put the block heater on. Car has to be run 10 to 15 minutes before I can start so perhaps that starting idling with cold oil is causing the internal engine wear like this lobe.
Click to expand...

Good luck 👌
 
asker123 said:
I am unlikely to fix this issue. It is not giving me any problem as such. I will just keep driving the car.
As I said earlier, I want it to drive just fine for another 5 years @10000 kms a year with one oil change per year in spring. Brakes are new, Tires are great. AC and Heat works just fine.
Now for Year 1, 0W20 has already been put in it just yesterday so no benefit taking it out and it is Mobil1 0W20 EP which is highly regarded on this forum. I have one more jug of it for Year 2.
In years 3 , 4 & 5, I might just switch to 5W20 or even 5W30. I switched from 5W20 to 0W20 because in crazy winter days of -20 deg C or less, I perceived that it started my car much easier even through I put the block heater on. Car has to be run 10 to 15 minutes before I can start so perhaps that starting idling with cold oil is causing the internal engine wear like this lobe.
Click to expand...
Most all of the Honda cam lobe wear I've seen, the cars have been primarily driven in cold climate.
The odd thing is, most wear that I've seen has been on the closing ramp of the cam lobe.
From what I understand that is an indication of a weak valve spring, or a bind in the stem. Resulting in the follower hammering the cam a little as it's closing.
If you think about a cam in operation, the cam undergoes the most stress opening a valve, on the opening ramp.
So if there were a lubrication problem, that is where I would expect to see the most wear occur.
Maybe a higher viscosity would dampen the hammering a little? A 0W-30 may be worth a shot.
 
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