2002 F150 4.6 V8 MC 5w20 6600 miles. WHAT IS GOING ON!!!

[Chris B.]

This is my friends Ford. The 1st 2 UOA's came out really bad!!!! We did and Auto RX cycle and the following UOA was much improved! Now this UOA is showing bad wear again! Can you help him out as to why his engine is showing high wear again?

I'm betting he ran it to long and that is why the high wear.
Blackstone did the test

2002 F150 4.6 V8
Motor Craft 5w20
6,600 miles
47,000 total miles
Motor Craft oil filter
Napa Gold air filter.

This UOA 6,600/4,263 miles/4,859 miles/4,300 miles

Aluminum 8/2/10/6

Chromimum 3/1/4/2

Iron 48/9/82/54

Copper 7/11/4/3

Lead 1/1/0/0

Tin 0/0/3/0

Nickel 1/0/2/1

Silicon 16/12/15/21

SUS Viscosity 49.9

Flashpoint 400

Fuel 0

Insolubles 0.2

TBN 1.5


The last UOA(2nd on list) was great! That was the one right after the Auto RX. What could be going on here? Thank you!

 

[JohnnyLock]

the TBN is 1.5. I believe that oil is wore out. too long of OCI. someone more knowledgeable may be able to elaborate.

 

[The Critic]

Wear seems a bit high...but silicon is high as well, which maybe causing it.

In addition, the oil is in relatively good condition noting the very low insolubles and high flashpoint; TBN of 1.5 still has life left.

I think you need an oil that won't shear as much, this oil sheared quite badly. perhaps give a 10w30 a try?

Michael

 

[TR3-2001SE]

You are having a problem with three metals. Iron, chrome and aluminum. My oil analysis cheat sheet says pistons/cylinders/rings. I would check your timming. Are you getting any pinging? Does this engine have an aluminum block? Maybe you have aluminum bearings? Something is not right for sure. Wish I knew more to help you. Try Terry Dyson analysis. That is what I would do. He went a little long for the change but their is more to it than that.

 

[chucky2]

Check out the viscosity...what's up with that? No fuel dilution...even though it's a 20 weight....didn't think the SuS should be near that low...?

Chris B.- What were the Sodium and Potassium values?

Chuck

 

[buster]

"You are having a problem with three metals. Iron, chrome and aluminum"

Right. I'd look into why these are elevated. One of the experts could help you more. Send Terry a check.

 

[James408]

I'm really not that savy on oil analysis but why are you going 6600 miles on a conventional oil. I know that that your talking about a synthetic blend but it is not a synthetic. I own a 97 4.6 F150 and change it religously every 3000 miles with conventional 5w30. Overkill? Maybe, but I'm a do it myselfer and oil is cheap enough. Some people on this website tend to push conventional oils past it's limits IMHO.

 

[TooSlick]

What SAE grade of lubricants was used for the previous three service intervals?

Is the previous test, the batch of oil that had the 12 ounces of ARX in the crankcase?

That could be the reason for the disparity of this data and the previous set of results.....The addition of a full bottle of ARX significantly improves the wear protection of any conventional oil. It basically turns it into a very good, ester based, synthetic blend.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Pretty thin weight for an extended OCI. I think 5K max is more the norm pulling a V8.

 

[Chris B.]

The 1st 2 OCI were M1 Super Syn 5w30. They came out so bad he did the Auto RX and a rince cycle followed by a 4,263 Motor Craft 5w20 OCI and that came out great with low wear! The TBN for that OCI was 2.9 so he was advised to take it to 6,000 miles but he accidently went over that by 600 miles.
There is no way this little bit of extra mileage caused the engine to wear 4 times the normal rate. Anyother ideas?

I'm going to try to get him to get Terry's advice but my friend is cheep and thinks this is money wasted. He only has followed up on this because the 1st OCI was so bad. I guess he likes his truck enough to try and fix it by using UOA's.

 

[Chris B.]

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucky2:
Check out the viscosity...what's up with that? No fuel dilution...even though it's a 20 weight....didn't think the SuS should be near that low...?

Chris B.- What were the Sodium and Potassium values?

Chuck

---

Potassium was 0 and Sodium was 7 for this OCI.

 

[chucky2]

Chris B.- Man, I just don't know...we know that 20 weights, and definitely the Motorcraft 20 weight, show great UOA's on the Ford modular motors...something HAS to be up with this one.

How was the sample taken? Shutoff the hot engine and take the sample mid-stream within a minute or two right?

The viscosity looks low to me (I'm a UOA idiot though so take that with a grain of salt)...no fuel or coolant contamination...your Silicon numbers look OK...not great but OK...maybe check for any air leaks just in case...other than that I'm stumped....

I'd say take the next sample at 3,000 miles just to get a good baseline on it...work your way up from their....something ain't right here...

Chuck

 

[Gary Allan]

I didn't see the service duty mentioned. What's the driving habits like? This surely wouldn't account for everything, but would add some data that is missing. This oil has gone up to/near 10k in these engines with less wear, IIRC.

 

[TooSlick]

Chris,

Let's do something cheap & simple and have him run the Chevron Supreme, 10w30 or Castrol GTX, 10w30 for the summer. That will tell you if the 5w-20's are just too thin for this type of service.

I'd also check the engine thoroughly for any intake leaks using a can of carb cleaner or WD-40 and spraying it on suspected leak areas. If the idle speed sound and/or speed changes - you've found your leak. Do this test with the engine cold and idling and take care not to spray the exhaust manifold. We lose more listers that way...

Call me or PM me off-line if you have questions.

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics

 

[1sttruck]

In addition to checking for vacuum leaks look carefully at the air filter box and the rest of the intake. After having one of our Fords serviced I found a loose intake duct clamp and the air filter box wasn't clamped properly, allowing the engine to suck air after the filter. The air filter box has an apparent design flaw as it came back improperly closed about several times from three different shops. If the intake has been sucking unfiltered air for whatever reason the intake system will be dirty, and may take awhile to get it cleaned out; pulling the throttle body and cleaning may be a good option if that is the case.

I recently installed a large handful of hose clamps on vacuum lines in one car, and it fixed a cold start problem. Per my last used oil analysis the oil was listed as 'dirty' :^)

 

[unDummy]

How many months was this oil in use?

Just start a more normal OCI and go from there.

 

[Chris B.]

Tooslick, thank you for the offer! This is not my truck but a friends and I will let him know. He is not the oil freek that I/we are but I'll try to get him to do UOA's untill he get's this problem fixed! I'll keep you posted.

 

[Al]

TooSlick knows what he is talking about. Don't forget the piston ring/cylinder comments. I would definately go with a higher viscosity oil for the short term to see what's up. Havoline/Chevron/GTX would be great. As mentioned stick for a shorter interval. 30wt. oils will shear down to close to a 20 wt by then.

 

[Cujet]

I have a F150 4.6L also. I found that the engine responds far better with M1 10-30 changed at 5K. I also tried adding 1 quart of 15-50, as I did not have 6 qts of 10-30 handy. This resulted in even better wear numbers.

I live in Florida, and have a slightly modified truck (headers, chip, exhaust, air filter). I tow, drive fast and use my truck fairly hard. I get far better numbers than that.

I am currently at 156K with excellent compression and less than 1qt used in 5K.

M1 10-30 works very well for me.

Chris