2000 Jeep 4.0L - Switch to Rotella T5 from PYB?
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Originally Posted By: jls095
KC...so the FL400s is actually smaller than the stock/normal sized filter?
Looks like I'll give them a try.
It's kind of a wash on size IMO. The diameter is smaller than the PH16/Mopar MO-090 type filters, so it "looks" a lot smaller. It is however a little longer than the spec filter. I honestly think capacity is about identical on the two, and I use the exact same amount of oil when doing an oil change with either one with the same apparent result on the dipstick.
Now if you've been using the oversize FL-1A type filters, the FL-400s will look tiny at first but you'll get used to it. Another nice thing about the Motorcraft FL-400S is it is absolutely loaded with media, the one pictured in this thread had a whopping 58 pleats in it, far more than most.
KC...so the FL400s is actually smaller than the stock/normal sized filter?
Looks like I'll give them a try.
It's kind of a wash on size IMO. The diameter is smaller than the PH16/Mopar MO-090 type filters, so it "looks" a lot smaller. It is however a little longer than the spec filter. I honestly think capacity is about identical on the two, and I use the exact same amount of oil when doing an oil change with either one with the same apparent result on the dipstick.
Now if you've been using the oversize FL-1A type filters, the FL-400s will look tiny at first but you'll get used to it. Another nice thing about the Motorcraft FL-400S is it is absolutely loaded with media, the one pictured in this thread had a whopping 58 pleats in it, far more than most.
Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
Check your brake caliber . If it silver . You good to go . If it black . Ready to spend some big " we'll not big for me " money's.
I will never own another jeep again . But for you op T5 10w30 or t6 5w40 and motorcraft oil filter is best combo for that noisy 4.0
Why the brake caliper? Early Grand Cherokees had brake caliper problems, not Cherokees.
Check your brake caliber . If it silver . You good to go . If it black . Ready to spend some big " we'll not big for me " money's.
I will never own another jeep again . But for you op T5 10w30 or t6 5w40 and motorcraft oil filter is best combo for that noisy 4.0
Why the brake caliper? Early Grand Cherokees had brake caliper problems, not Cherokees.
Swap to Akebonos on the front, problem solved, mid year change in 2002.
I have an 02 WJ with the 4.7 and have put next to nothing for repairs outside of brake job with rotors and pads, 2 set of plugs, one idler pulley for serp belt, one serp belt, fluid changes, 1 set of tires and a pair of tweeters in the dash.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
Check your brake caliber . If it silver . You good to go . If it black . Ready to spend some big " we'll not big for me " money's.
I will never own another jeep again . But for you op T5 10w30 or t6 5w40 and motorcraft oil filter is best combo for that noisy 4.0
Why the brake caliper? Early Grand Cherokees had brake caliper problems, not Cherokees.
I have an 02 WJ with the 4.7 and have put next to nothing for repairs outside of brake job with rotors and pads, 2 set of plugs, one idler pulley for serp belt, one serp belt, fluid changes, 1 set of tires and a pair of tweeters in the dash.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
Check your brake caliber . If it silver . You good to go . If it black . Ready to spend some big " we'll not big for me " money's.
I will never own another jeep again . But for you op T5 10w30 or t6 5w40 and motorcraft oil filter is best combo for that noisy 4.0
Why the brake caliper? Early Grand Cherokees had brake caliper problems, not Cherokees.
My 1987 Black Jeep Cherokees 297,8?? mile original 4.0 was run with PYB almost exclusively said the previous owner when I got her back in Fall 2006 with 268,??? miles. I Tell You, Her 4.0 has the Best compression, Very little Blow-by if any, oil takes 7,000 to 8,000 miles to turn even Brown, Plenty of power, the list goes on and on...I am impressed with PYB. Shes gettin close to 298,000 and if You didnt look at the odometer and drove her any which way you wanted, You would think She had around 100,000 miles or so. My 96s 4.0 has 250,568 miles, Supposedly run with Mobil 1(Im not so sure) since around 100,000 miles when previous owner got it, and has more wear. Of course driving habits Play a Huge role in engine life. I have Always wanted to use Rotella T5 10w-30 in one of my Cherokees. I have a 2001 SilverStone Metallic XJ with 65,820 original miles on everything shes got, and have Always wanted to give Her GutnTight, SuperSmooth(you can set a Heineken on Her valvecover right in front of oil fill cap, and It wont move or Fizz) FourPointOh. Silver T5 bottle just seems fitting. She dosent get driven much, as with Some diesels, but when She does get driven its kinda Spirited, and I believe T5 would protect Her.
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Originally Posted By: jls095
KC...so the FL400s is actually smaller than the stock/normal sized filter?
Looks like I'll give them a try.
yes... FL400s is about the same size as a fram 3614 while the standard filter would be a mopar 090/fram 16/puro 14670/wix 51085 etc
the motorcraft filters that are closer in size to the oem spec filter are the FL300 and FL842 (good luck finding either locally) however IIRC both have nitrile adbv
KC...so the FL400s is actually smaller than the stock/normal sized filter?
Looks like I'll give them a try.
yes... FL400s is about the same size as a fram 3614 while the standard filter would be a mopar 090/fram 16/puro 14670/wix 51085 etc
the motorcraft filters that are closer in size to the oem spec filter are the FL300 and FL842 (good luck finding either locally) however IIRC both have nitrile adbv
Originally Posted By: Jameson
What this does, in theory I BELIEVE, is when it does bypass the filter it ruly bypasses all the media. In other filters it will "wash" up any accumulated dirt POSSIBLY by way of its location. Also horror stories about them failing...
JC
That's what is often stated about base-end bypass- that it directly bypasses from inlet to outlet rather than sweeping oil past the "dirty side" of the media and then bypassing. That's certainly true, they do work that way.
But I don't think it matters at all, and here's why:
BEFORE either type of filter can even come close to going into bypass mode, a LOT of pressure differential has to have ALREADY built up across the media (4-8 PSI worth, typically). That built-up pressure is going to hold any dirt on the media *tightly* to the media. The sweep-past current of oil, so to speak, is very minimal compared to the current flowing into the media from the dirty side. So all contaminants will be held in place during bypass, and oil from the engine will flow around
Furthermore, base-end bypass valves are more complicated to build than dome-end poppet valves. Dome-end poppets are super simple, and the springs can be made very consistent so that they all release at the same pressure. Base-end valves are built as a ring around the oil discharge hole, and so they're inherently more complicated. They surely CAN be built well, I'm just not sure that all brands that use them do as good a job as Motorcraft.
The only dome-end valve that bothers me even the least is the Fram Ultra, since its the same glass-reinforced plastic as the Fram orange can. I've never seen a post of a failed one, and its almost certainly just as reliable as, eg, Puorlator's all-metal poppet. Just a personal anti-plastic bias on my part, probably totally unfounded.
What this does, in theory I BELIEVE, is when it does bypass the filter it ruly bypasses all the media. In other filters it will "wash" up any accumulated dirt POSSIBLY by way of its location. Also horror stories about them failing...
JC
That's what is often stated about base-end bypass- that it directly bypasses from inlet to outlet rather than sweeping oil past the "dirty side" of the media and then bypassing. That's certainly true, they do work that way.
But I don't think it matters at all, and here's why:
BEFORE either type of filter can even come close to going into bypass mode, a LOT of pressure differential has to have ALREADY built up across the media (4-8 PSI worth, typically). That built-up pressure is going to hold any dirt on the media *tightly* to the media. The sweep-past current of oil, so to speak, is very minimal compared to the current flowing into the media from the dirty side. So all contaminants will be held in place during bypass, and oil from the engine will flow around
Furthermore, base-end bypass valves are more complicated to build than dome-end poppet valves. Dome-end poppets are super simple, and the springs can be made very consistent so that they all release at the same pressure. Base-end valves are built as a ring around the oil discharge hole, and so they're inherently more complicated. They surely CAN be built well, I'm just not sure that all brands that use them do as good a job as Motorcraft.
The only dome-end valve that bothers me even the least is the Fram Ultra, since its the same glass-reinforced plastic as the Fram orange can. I've never seen a post of a failed one, and its almost certainly just as reliable as, eg, Puorlator's all-metal poppet. Just a personal anti-plastic bias on my part, probably totally unfounded.
Thanks for all of the responses. I'm going to stick with PYB for now.
In terms of the filter, I've ordered both a Wix 51515 and a FL400s. I wanted to see the size difference first hand. I'm relatively certain that I want to use the FL400s for my next OCI. I found another thread that supported what Jeepman and KC said in terms of good flow at start up. Not that I didn't believe you guys... (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=322767)
My last remaining concern with the FL400s is that it's narrower than the stock filter (by how much I'll see when my order gets here). Given that it's narrower, won't the seal fitment be off? Won't the outer circumference of the block be exposed where it shouldn't be?
In terms of the filter, I've ordered both a Wix 51515 and a FL400s. I wanted to see the size difference first hand. I'm relatively certain that I want to use the FL400s for my next OCI. I found another thread that supported what Jeepman and KC said in terms of good flow at start up. Not that I didn't believe you guys... (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=322767)
My last remaining concern with the FL400s is that it's narrower than the stock filter (by how much I'll see when my order gets here). Given that it's narrower, won't the seal fitment be off? Won't the outer circumference of the block be exposed where it shouldn't be?
gasket on the FL400s is the same size as the larger filters
i don't have any FL400s handy but i have a shorter version of the wix equivalent (the actual wix equivalent is the 51516 same diameter just taller... fl400s's diameter is about the same)... (if i didn't do my oil change earlier today i'd also have a 51515 for this comparison)
i don't have any FL400s handy but i have a shorter version of the wix equivalent (the actual wix equivalent is the 51516 same diameter just taller... fl400s's diameter is about the same)... (if i didn't do my oil change earlier today i'd also have a 51515 for this comparison)
Originally Posted By: jls095
My last remaining concern with the FL400s is that it's narrower than the stock filter (by how much I'll see when my order gets here). Given that it's narrower, won't the seal fitment be off? Won't the outer circumference of the block be exposed where it shouldn't be?
That's the beauty of the whole thing. While they LOOK radically different in can size and shape, (they are) the only real difference is the gasket and it's only a few hundredths of an inch different. Virtually identical.
And the rest of the specs ARE identical, bypass settings, threads, everything the whole deal.
It does take a while to get used to the visual difference no doubt, trust the facts not your eyes!
My last remaining concern with the FL400s is that it's narrower than the stock filter (by how much I'll see when my order gets here). Given that it's narrower, won't the seal fitment be off? Won't the outer circumference of the block be exposed where it shouldn't be?
That's the beauty of the whole thing. While they LOOK radically different in can size and shape, (they are) the only real difference is the gasket and it's only a few hundredths of an inch different. Virtually identical.
And the rest of the specs ARE identical, bypass settings, threads, everything the whole deal.
It does take a while to get used to the visual difference no doubt, trust the facts not your eyes!
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