2-cycle oil as a fuel add in 4-cycle engine

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I saw the recommendations to put 2 cycle and 5w-30 synthetic into fuel but I ignored them and went straight to UCL. People I talk to that use 2 cycle oil in 2 cycle engines complain that they get progressively dirtier until they don't run well. I prefer UCL which has sufficient lubricant for gasoline and other ingredients get your engine progressively cleaner.

2 cycle oil is half the price of LUCL and the same price as MMO. I wouldn't call that cheap.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I don't think 2-cycle oil or castor oil or whatever has any advantages over the FFP60 or FP+, since LCD's products already have various compounds in them to lubricate fuel pumps, clean the fuel system, and act as UCL's.


If there's a part of the thread in an earlier page I missed, my apologies.

Wouldn't an advantage of 2-cycle oil be price and availability? It's cheap and available pretty much everywhere.


I use LCD FP3000/FP+ personally. I see people quoting dosages of 2-cycle oil that are 4 times the dose for FP+ or more (FP+ is 1oz/10gal). I'm not sure that a gallon of good two-stoke is 1/4 the price (or less) of FP+. I guess it depends on if you don't care what it is as long as its cheap. Saber certainly isn't that cheap, it's in the same ballpark as FP+ and I'd have to use 4 times as much.

*shrug*
 
Originally Posted By: severach
I saw the recommendations to put 2 cycle and 5w-30 synthetic into fuel but I ignored them and went straight to UCL. People I talk to that use 2 cycle oil in 2 cycle engines complain that they get progressively dirtier until they don't run well. I prefer UCL which has sufficient lubricant for gasoline and other ingredients get your engine progressively cleaner.

2 cycle oil is half the price of LUCL and the same price as MMO. I wouldn't call that cheap.
The amount of 2 cycle oil in the fuel mixture required for a 2 cycle engine is higher than the amount people hopefully run as an additive.
 
I put some in my moms 2002 Subaru Outback with the 3 liter 6 cylinder. It has almost 90k miles on it now and has been idling kind of rough. She commented that it idles much smoother at stop lights now.

It also mostly eliminated the dead spot in the powerband on my dads Kawasaki KL250 motorcycle.

This at a 500:1 ratio in all applications.
 
Yeah, it seems to work if you use it in low doses. I'm probably still using too much. More experimentation needed to find a control for the itchy pouring hand that says "a little bit more".

Is there any advantage to running a more expensive TC-W3 oil than SuperTech?
 
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Yeah, it seems to work if you use it in low doses. I'm probably still using too much. More experimentation needed to find a control for the itchy pouring hand that says "a little bit more".

Is there any advantage to running a more expensive TC-W3 oil than SuperTech?


400:1 is about as rich as I've ever used with 500:1 being done a lot.

Over the years I've used many types/grades of 2 cycle TC-W3 lubes in my fuel mix. To date I've found little difference in the end results.
 
Originally Posted By: cmhj
Originally Posted By: cmhj
Over the years I've used a variety of TC-W3 oils at about 400:1 in some of my vehicles that had mega miles on them.

We have run our vehicles thru many EPA inspections with no issues. However, I do skip pre-mixing a tank and run a fuel additive treatment thru before hitting the sniffer. If that makes any difference I'm unsure.

I've never seen a big fuel mileage change. However, I never tracked it that close but will be soon in my 07 Cobalt. This will be a good car to try and see if anything can be done in regards to mileage as it gets run over the same course very day. The mileage the wife gets is very consistent as well. After a couple months of playing, while not telling her what I'm doing, we'll see if there's a seen difference on the DIC.

Also, in some cases the fuel pumps are quieter when using the mix.


Have been doing my little experiment on the Cobalt, which the wife drives every day. Started with a 400:1 premix.

My first impressions were, very little change was felt or heard. It seemed to idle a bit quieter but nothing else. This engine has been a sweatheart from day one so my expectations were low per any improvement on sound or drivability, which have seemed slight.

The wife did ask what I did to the car. She knew I was tinkering thus she asked. I asked why and her reply was it idles quieter and seems smoother at low speeds. ???????????

Mileage has improved. After 2 tanks the DIC has went up .6 MPG or about 2%. Now the next 2 tanks won't be treated. We'll see if the mileage drops.

Meanwhile she's still in the dark as to what, if anything I've done to hopefully not change her driving habits.


After 2 tanks with the premix, 2 without and now 2 tanks with the mix again I have some preliminary results.

On average using a 400:1 mix the mileage results per the DIC were 2% better.

Now I'll play a bit with the mixture. Will vary from 400:1 to 600:1. This will take several months to conclude.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew2000
The TCW-3 seems to be a outboard motor spec.



It is and per specs is ashless, not low ash. This is the main reason I've used TCW-3 for the purposes mentioned in this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I don't think 2-cycle oil or castor oil or whatever has any advantages over the FFP60 or FP+, since LCD's products already have various compounds in them to lubricate fuel pumps, clean the fuel system, and act as UCL's.


Well, let's see...FP costs over $40 per gallon, and I can't buy it anywhere but online. 2 cycle oil costs about $8 per gallon at Walmart.

Not a hard choice...when both do the same thing.
 
Originally Posted By: DmanWho
Wal-Mart's price for the SuperTech 2-cycle has risen to $9.48 a gallon, if I am remembering correctly.


Still less than 1/4 the price of FP, or anything Lucas makes.
 
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I don't think 2-cycle oil or castor oil or whatever has any advantages over the FFP60 or FP+, since LCD's products already have various compounds in them to lubricate fuel pumps, clean the fuel system, and act as UCL's.


Well, let's see...FP costs over $40 per gallon, and I can't buy it anywhere but online. 2 cycle oil costs about $8 per gallon at Walmart.

Not a hard choice...when both do the same thing.


Except that they don't (do the same thing). FP products lubricate well, but are far superior cleaners!

If you only care about additional lube, with limited cleaning (2-cycles tend to have enough cleaners to account for the oil addition and not much more), then a 2-cycle is for you.
 
You forgot to do all the math.

FP+ treats at 1300:1. I can't say I've seen any of the supporters of 2-stroke mixing that high.

So you'll probably use three times as much 2-stroke per gallon, so the comparison price is more like $24 for the cheapest 2-cycle oil vs. $40 for FP+.

First start with more accurate numbers, then add qualitative effectiveness to the debate to make it an "easy choice". Whether they do "the same thing" can also be debated.
 
Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Except that they don't (do the same thing). FP products lubricate well, but are far superior cleaners!

I have yet to see a single grain of proof of this.

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
You forgot to do all the math.
FP+ treats at 1300:1. I can't say I've seen any of the supporters of 2-stroke mixing that high.

Clearly, if you are mixing FP at 1300:1 then you are NOT lubricating nearly as well as if you mixed 2 cycle oil at 500:1 or less. FP also has less oil in it to begin with, it isn't ALL oil like a gallon of 2 cycle is.
 
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Except that they don't (do the same thing). FP products lubricate well, but are far superior cleaners!

I have yet to see a single grain of proof of this.


Really - considering that Molakule and Terry did a very complete study on LC/FP products several years ago detailing results of LCD's claims - it can be found here:

http://www.lcdinc.com/tests_dyson.php

Here is their conclusions:

"6.1 LC20 and FP60 act synergistically to keep an engine running at top efficiency. FP60 supplies extra energy to increase fuel mileage, while at the same time, cleaning the fuel system and combustion chamber of deposits, and supplying lubricants to lubricate fuel pumps and injectors. LC20 softens and dissolves carbonaceous deposits in the ring pack and hidden crevices of the engine. "

I know of no 2-cycle that liquifies carbon and varnish - good enough for me.


Maybe we should ask Molakule what he thinks -Mola, Mola, where are you??
 
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Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Really - considering that Molakule and Terry did a very complete study on LC/FP products several years ago detailing results of LCD's claims - it can be found here:

http://www.lcdinc.com/tests_dyson.php

Proof enough for me.

You mean info on the company's website that was investigated by people being paid by the same company is "proof" that it works? LOL! That's like when George Bush tells us we're winning the war.

I am the queen of england. Go ask my dog, he'll prove it.

That's the same arguement.

Furthermore, this is a thread about lubrication, not cleaning. Oil has far superior lubrication properties than FP.
 
^^^ Wow! - change the subject when you lose the debate.

I never said FP was a better lubricant, only that is is a lubricant. I stated it was a better cleaner.

Enough said.
 
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