1998 Diesel Beetle opinion needed

[Bluestream]

I've been to the TDI forum, and its the same as the Ford forum or the Toyota Forum. Lots of people with issues they need help with. All cars are the same that way, if you just read the forums you would never buy one.

I have five old cars in the family, so used to fixing and repairing things all the time. Bruckus did you buy yours new? Also, were you the one doing the fixing? If not I can see how that can get expensive and irritating.

I am more concerned about the engine of the TDI. I know its not Mercedes quality, but with only 150K it should have loots of life left. This guy owned it for the past 6 years, so if it was a dog, he would have sold by now. Anyway, I think I will lower my offer when I meet him, and see how I make out. Thanks again poster.

 

[FXjohn]

the TDI and VW in general are more costly to maintain than an US, Japanese, or Korean car made within the last few years.

 

[bruckus]

Bluestream, I did buy both beetles new. The problems I had should not be had on a new vehicle. These are problems you would expect on a high mileage older vehicle.I consider myself an accomplished mechanic doing it professionally for almost 20 years. I performed the general maintanance on these vehicles and luckily the rest was repaired under warranty.I just would prefer to have a reliable vehicle and truely believe that there are much better options out there.

 

[rshunter]

Check out the list of vehicles below. While it isn't complete, it does contain the ones we drive the most. The Volkswagens haven't been any more expensive or troublesome to maintain than the Japanese vehicles I've owned (Hondas and Toyotas primarily). If anything, they may be less so. It's all a matter of luck, sometimes you end up with a "Friday afternoon special". Anyone who gives you a line about VWs being trouble as a whole, have their heads in one (without the "w")...

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
anyone who gives you a line about VWs being trouble as a whole, have their heads in one (without the "w")...


I don't believe you.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: rshunter
anyone who gives you a line about VWs being trouble as a whole, have their heads in one (without the "w")...


I don't believe you.

Believe it or not, I couldn't care less...

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: scurvy

Like I said, I enjoy my TDIs and many others do as well but they are very intolerant of lack of maintenance and unfortunately the stealership is usually behind incomplete or shoddy work.

FWIW, the stock OCI & oil specification was 10k miles and 505.00. Plenty of folks had intake clogging issues with them because they drove trying to squeeze out every miserly MPG they could. Bad for the intake & turbo vanes.

Some folks are not a good fit for some cars, and I'm glad you're in a vehicle that suits you much better now.

The proper spec is 505.01 Per VW and the TSB which corrected the owners manual in 02. I was real careful with it's maitenance. The two cars I had before it were GM 3800 cars which required a 1/4 of the maintenance to both go over 250,000 miles a piece. So that is what I base the my VW's less than stellar track record on.
That car had/has to be a love affair. It recieved better maintenance than any car I have ever owned. It didn't stop it from needed two injector wiring harnesses, 2 sets of front wheel bearings, 1 automatic Transmission in the first 40,000 miles. Lets see lights would come on in rain with everything off, took a while to find that, 4 neutral park safety switches.
1 set of glow plugs and bunch of other stuff I can't remember. Thank goodness for warranty.
To the OP, you have got to love this car and look past it's faults. You can read up about it on TDI site. It was the only way I found about all the "Common" problems with this car. I however never loved it enough to keep fixing it past 80,000 miles. So the timming belt and water pump were replaced at a local VW specialty shop not the dealer and I sold it for 3000 under book. It was gone in a day. I shed a tear of joy when it left the driveway.

 

[Thermo1223]

Glow plugs are standard maintenance...can't fault the car when they need to be replaced.

The whole "intake carbon" scenario was all due to US grade fuel and the inability of a USoA driver to actually drive the car. Most people would short shift it at 2k rpms, barely accelerate with very little throttle and wonder why the car felt sluggish. EGR had a lot to do with it as well. Dirty fuel leads to even more soot which means more problems.

Now with ULSD standard I forsee that this issue will reslove it self in short order.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Glow plugs are standard maintenance...can't fault the car when they need to be replaced.

The whole "intake carbon" scenario was all due to US grade fuel and the inability of a USoA driver to actually drive the car. Most people would short shift it at 2k rpms, barely accelerate with very little throttle and wonder why the car felt sluggish. EGR had a lot to do with it as well. Dirty fuel leads to even more soot which means more problems.

Now with ULSD standard I forsee that this issue will reslove it self in short order.

Glow plugs at 23,000 miles standard maintenance? Please. You guys can defend this car all you want. Look what I currently drive I am fairly lenient when it comes to issues cars have.
The Jetta I had, had more issues then all of the current cars I have now combined. I only put 80,000 miles on it. So tell me again glow plugs are normal at 23,000 miles. They are not.
The carbon problem excuse is like me trying to make an exucuse for having to do the Buicks intake gasket. There isn't one.
Espcially when the dealer was able to change the program to basically get rid of problem of carbon build up. It is a poor design, my exhaust cooler was completely clogged. Keep coming up with excuses folks, I have got all day.

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Thanks to all who replied on this and especially to Scurvy for the detailed info. Even though the replies were mixed, I am leaning towards buying this ca. I am meeting seller today for a test drive and inspection. I don't think the owner was misleading me on the timing belt, I think he must have meant an upgraded OEM belt kit, and not an aftermarket. I can't see a VW dealer installing an aftermarket part anyway.


Don't do it! We're trying to warn you.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: rshunter
anyone who gives you a line about VWs being trouble as a whole, have their heads in one (without the "w")...


I don't believe you.

Believe it or not, I couldn't care less...


I've owned VW's and the past and have read the TDI board.
owning a VW is a full time expensive hobby.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: rshunter
anyone who gives you a line about VWs being trouble as a whole, have their heads in one (without the "w")...


I don't believe you.

Believe it or not, I couldn't care less...


I've owned VW's and the past and have read the TDI board.
owning a VW is a full time expensive hobby.

Read the other brand oriented boards, they've all got their issues.

 

[AlienBug]

VW appears to have turned the corner around 2007. But for a good decade, they built some extremely troublesome cars. I love my Bug, but it is BY FAR the most maintenance intensive and breakage prone car I have ever owned. The three Nissans I have owned combined have required fewer repairs.

 

[BobFout]

Every forum is full of worst-case situations. The folks with TDIs that have ZERO issues won't post. So many people do nothing but normal maintenance for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Things go bad when a clueless dealer/owner/jimbo down the road/corner mechanic start doing "monkey & football" things with a highly sophisticated, state of the art vehicle.

 

[Vizzy]

During the past five years or so VW has become overall as reliable as most of the japanese and korean brands, in some cases, like the Golf it is BETTER than that of the japanese, and korean competitors....

I wouldn't hesistate to buy anything (except the Chrysler made Routan) in the VW line up today.

 

[Audi Junkie]

If you want the best VAG product for the money, get a used TT w/1.8T and quattro. They are clean and a lot to choose from. People who bought new paid $40k and got 4yr/50k free maintenance, so they are all fully serviced and not beat upon. Very good car for $9k or so.

More worthwhile doing the same repairs on a TT than a Beetle, by far.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Every forum is full of worst-case situations. The folks with TDIs that have ZERO issues won't post. So many people do nothing but normal maintenance for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Things go bad when a clueless dealer/owner/jimbo down the road/corner mechanic start doing "monkey & football" things with a highly sophisticated, state of the art vehicle.

You sound like the guys who defend Dex Cool,"Oh they didn't keep the radiator full" You are impling that that people such as myself couldn't take care of the car properly. Well sir, you are full of it. I never touched the wheel bearings, glow plugs, injector wiring harness, neutral park saftey switch or any of the other stuff that broke on that car. They all broke on their own. Sweet Lord. I managed to build an 11 second 1/4 mile daily driven Trans Am and keep a 22 year old truck that tows a 5th wheel 70 percent of it's life running just fine.
With a 1% of the trouble of the pile o' poo Jetta. Face it sometimes car manufactures even VW make a pile.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

Glow plugs at 23,000 miles standard maintenance? Please. You guys can defend this car all you want. Look what I currently drive I am fairly lenient when it comes to issues cars have.
The Jetta I had, had more issues then all of the current cars I have now combined. I only put 80,000 miles on it. So tell me again glow plugs are normal at 23,000 miles. They are not.
The carbon problem excuse is like me trying to make an exucuse for having to do the Buicks intake gasket. There isn't one.
Espcially when the dealer was able to change the program to basically get rid of problem of carbon build up. It is a poor design, my exhaust cooler was completely clogged. Keep coming up with excuses folks, I have got all day.


Well if you mentioned the mileage at which they were needed I would have agreed with you and said, yes 23k miles is not normal. I bet the harness was bad too, standard problem.

I was not making excuses for the intake clogging merely explaining that like Buick, VW didn't understand how a driver would interact with the car creating such a scenario.

Poor design had nothing to do with it, releasing a car to meet Fed. emissions though did. My personal opinion was the EGR cooler having a lot to do with it. I ripped mine out and used the "euro" pipe. Never an issue after that.

However some people expect a car to be perfectly fine without doing any if very little maintenance, Honda & Toyota make appliances but they also have their lemons as well. My friend's Civic certainly was, an emission CEL every 5k like clockwork and they replaced parts left & right on it with little resolution. good thing it was new and could be bought back.

Older VW TDI's aren't as polished as the new ones and require someone willing to deal with their quirkiness much like British Roadsters. When they do their job well it is bliss, when not it is nothing but a headache. As was mentioned you will never read about people not having problems with them or TDIClub.com wouldn't exist.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I am thinking of buying a 1998 Diesel beetle. Car is a two owner car with standard transmission, and has 150K miles on it. Owner claims to have spent 3K on timing belt, water pump, and brakes one year ago. Needs a front windsheild to pass saftey check. Cost is $2,750 - $3,000

Anyone aware of any defects, or reason I should stay away from this car?

I'm just ignoring all the comments previously posted.

Whether this is a good deal or not depends, of course, on whether other work is required. 150k miles means the engine is practically new, and manual transmissions usually last the life of the car, so in the drivetrain there would only be the clutch/flywheel and any u-joints or differential components. Usually reliable and not expensive.

The expensive stuff with TDIs are the turbos and the injection pumps. They are pretty durable, but are often diagnosed as faulty when a mechanic cannot find something else like a vacuum leak or a sticky turbo actuator, or an air leak in the area of the fuel filter.

Also worth considering is that there may be some excellent TDIs out there, with similar miles but several years newer, for not much more money.

I would say that the main thing is to check out and test drive several TDIs at least, so you know what normal performance should be. I have read from one owner that he drove one for nearly two years with a bad mass airflow (MAF) sensor -- he said he thought it was normal for it to be so low on power. Try to find another TDI owner in the area and ask him to go with you.

 

[Thermo1223]

Echoing Tornado's comments,

The VNT actuator for the turbo on my Jetta saw many years in the rust belt. So salt and water attacked it with quite a vigor. I'm guessing the day I purchased the car it was leaking vacuum and I thought power was off. I replaced the MAF, tested the MAF, and many other things with very little effect.

It only was very apparent in the winter of 2006. I would on occasion drive my wife to work at 7PM and pick her up at 7AM just so driving home half asleep didn't cause her to get in an accident.

One morning the car started as normal as it ever did on 4F winter day. However at the sign of the first hill with any measurable grade it slowed down even at WOT. On a stretch of highway marked for 45-50mph I barely could muster 30mph even with an engine speed of past 3000rpms. As I would drive the turbo's heat would thaw the rusted open, ice filled, VNT actuator and I would start getting boost again. I also had a Boost gauge telling me this as well. I could not know how bad the vacuum leak was because unlike gas engines, diesels don't run worse with a vacuum leak since there is not throttle plate. So it came as quite a surprise to me that later on when temps got warmer I was reaching 30PSI on command and then immediately going into limp mode(IE no boost, ecu shuts down turbo).

Had I gone to the dealer as TDIClub warned a new $700+ turbo & manifold would have been my fix. However with a mere $145 part I could be back on the road keeping my working turbo.

The dealer does not diagnose TDI's, they throw parts at them expecting results. When they get none they then throw more parts until after $1000's of dollars wasted say "We just can't fix it".

I replaced the part myself which the dealer does not sell separately only as unit with a new turbo. It was like the car had a new lease on life, power was more than ever before and it got better fuel economy.

This is what TDI's require, personal attention with a keen mind on what the possible solutions are for a problem without throwing parts at it. They are not Hondas or Toyotas which can be driven for years without maintenance or repairs.

VW's need maintenance and repairs on schedule or you could end up with a basket case of a car.