I would close that up with a new gasket. Do your auto rx treatments by the book and rinse well. Then use maxlife blend or PP and call it good and never open it again. My guess is you are 1/2 way through that engines life. But I would clean the PCV system once a year minimum. I would not physically scrub anything off the engine for fear of not getting all the particles out. Let the autorx do the job slowly while you drive.
1997 Camry 5SFE with valve cover off
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Hand cleaning the soft visible junk off would be fine, I wouldn't do anything to try and remove hard carbon like deposits off unless you plan on tearing the engine down. Then proceed as others have mentioned with an A-Rx treatment.
Originally Posted By: Hethaerto
You need to rebuild the engine. Years of neglect has finally caught up with the final owner.
Yea, but I would wait for another 100K miles and see what happens.
You need to rebuild the engine. Years of neglect has finally caught up with the final owner.
Yea, but I would wait for another 100K miles and see what happens.
Great photos and THANKS for the effort! Yeah, varnish is always ugly but every engine with dino seems to have it... even with 3,000 mile changes. Would love to see the internals of the same engine with Mobil-1 and extended drains? From what I gather, the use of SYN seems to eliminate the varnish coating and it's presence is probably heat related?
My 1998 Civic Ex's D16Y8 engine lived it's entire life with ~6000 mile oil changes and a diet of Castrol 5w30 dino and when I had opened it up around 100k miles to change out the timing belt/water pump and adjust the valves the only place there were any deposits was some varnish on the inside of the valve cover. It looked NOTHING like this!
Does the sludge even matter now as long as it's not blocking any passages and as long as you don't do something to make it worse? Couldn't you just run a good synthetic to either not add to the problem or slowly improve the condition?
Does the sludge even matter now as long as it's not blocking any passages and as long as you don't do something to make it worse? Couldn't you just run a good synthetic to either not add to the problem or slowly improve the condition?
The top end of that Camry as well as the bottom end of that Saab would seem to provide pretty good answers to the question of "why spend the extra money to run a synthetic?"
Originally Posted By: BerndV
The top end of that Camry as well as the bottom end of that Saab would seem to provide pretty good answers to the question of "why spend the extra money to run a synthetic?"
No it does not on the Camry.
It has 175 THOUSAND miles and is fine. It WILL run with no issues another 100+ THOUSAND miles.
I'd bet that if the same OCI was run with a syn, you would see HARMLESS varnish also. (syn oils do leave varnish and some sludge. Just check out the Mobil 1 useless taxi test photos)
But it is your money. Spend it as you wish.
I'll save the "it's only a extra $20" which is $1000 over 250k.
Or at $4 a gallon for gas 7,500 miles worth of fuel in his car.
Bill
The top end of that Camry as well as the bottom end of that Saab would seem to provide pretty good answers to the question of "why spend the extra money to run a synthetic?"
No it does not on the Camry.
It has 175 THOUSAND miles and is fine. It WILL run with no issues another 100+ THOUSAND miles.
I'd bet that if the same OCI was run with a syn, you would see HARMLESS varnish also. (syn oils do leave varnish and some sludge. Just check out the Mobil 1 useless taxi test photos)
But it is your money. Spend it as you wish.
I'll save the "it's only a extra $20" which is $1000 over 250k.
Or at $4 a gallon for gas 7,500 miles worth of fuel in his car.
Bill
Looks like my MIL's 97 Camry V6 with only 120k miles, 3k OCI, and all city driving. Tried Auto RX on that thing but it it did was leaking, but doesn't really clean much of that off.
I'd do frequent oil change and that's about it.
I'd do frequent oil change and that's about it.
Bill, I know you are a big dino advocate. However, my 96 Camry has had nothing but M1 starting at 5k until my very recent switch to Amsoil SSO. My intervals were 7500 miles under warranty and have been around 10k since. I had my valvetrain cover of at 149k to replace the PCV valve and the top end looked nothing like the pictures on this thread. It was, in fact, absolutely immaculate. If the top end on that Camry looks the way it does versus the Saab, I can only imagine what the bottom end must look like. Sure, the car will continue to run a while longer. It is, after all, a Toyota. That doesn't mean it wouldn't last longer and stay healthier with a steady diet of synthetic. Synthetics are particularly well suited to sludgers like these older Toyota engines.
Originally Posted By: BerndV
The top end of that Camry as well as the bottom end of that Saab would seem to provide pretty good answers to the question of "why spend the extra money to run a synthetic?"
The SAAB has PCV issues. Still, synth only for 5k max is a must in this car.
The top end of that Camry as well as the bottom end of that Saab would seem to provide pretty good answers to the question of "why spend the extra money to run a synthetic?"
The SAAB has PCV issues. Still, synth only for 5k max is a must in this car.
Originally Posted By: BerndV
Bill, I know you are a big dino advocate. However, my 96 Camry has had nothing but M1 starting at 5k until my very recent switch to Amsoil SSO. My intervals were 7500 miles under warranty and have been around 10k since. I had my valvetrain cover of at 149k to replace the PCV valve and the top end looked nothing like the pictures on this thread. It was, in fact, absolutely immaculate. If the top end on that Camry looks the way it does versus the Saab, I can only imagine what the bottom end must look like. Sure, the car will continue to run a while longer. It is, after all, a Toyota. That doesn't mean it wouldn't last longer and stay healthier with a steady diet of synthetic. Synthetics are particularly well suited to sludgers like these older Toyota engines.
That's the difference I saw with my 2000 I4 Accord fed M1 5w30 for most of its life and 7500mi OCIs. When I pulled the valve cover at 102k mi there was absolutely nothing stuck anywhere. Some dirty oil in some of the vertical holes that don't drain but absolutely no varnish or sludge.
Again, I'm not sure it matters though as long as the sludge doesn't interfere with the flow of oil or moving parts. My personal preference is syn but I've got nothing against dino in most engines. The OM is right about his savings adding up over the long term though done correctly (longer OCIs) and considering that the cost delta is ~$10 per change, the syn might perform better and cost the same or even save a few bucks.
Bill, I know you are a big dino advocate. However, my 96 Camry has had nothing but M1 starting at 5k until my very recent switch to Amsoil SSO. My intervals were 7500 miles under warranty and have been around 10k since. I had my valvetrain cover of at 149k to replace the PCV valve and the top end looked nothing like the pictures on this thread. It was, in fact, absolutely immaculate. If the top end on that Camry looks the way it does versus the Saab, I can only imagine what the bottom end must look like. Sure, the car will continue to run a while longer. It is, after all, a Toyota. That doesn't mean it wouldn't last longer and stay healthier with a steady diet of synthetic. Synthetics are particularly well suited to sludgers like these older Toyota engines.
That's the difference I saw with my 2000 I4 Accord fed M1 5w30 for most of its life and 7500mi OCIs. When I pulled the valve cover at 102k mi there was absolutely nothing stuck anywhere. Some dirty oil in some of the vertical holes that don't drain but absolutely no varnish or sludge.
Again, I'm not sure it matters though as long as the sludge doesn't interfere with the flow of oil or moving parts. My personal preference is syn but I've got nothing against dino in most engines. The OM is right about his savings adding up over the long term though done correctly (longer OCIs) and considering that the cost delta is ~$10 per change, the syn might perform better and cost the same or even save a few bucks.
Good day all,
I just changed my oil to start the rinse cycle of my 1st ever Auto-RX application.
I'll be getting the Peak oil change special from Pepboys so I can use it for my 2nd ARX application.
Can I start my 2nd application after I finish this 1st rinse cycle?
And for the pictures, I'll take some pics after I finish the 3000 mile rinse cycle as promised!
Take care,
SMB
I just changed my oil to start the rinse cycle of my 1st ever Auto-RX application.
I'll be getting the Peak oil change special from Pepboys so I can use it for my 2nd ARX application.
Can I start my 2nd application after I finish this 1st rinse cycle?
And for the pictures, I'll take some pics after I finish the 3000 mile rinse cycle as promised!
Take care,
SMB
I'm surprised by all the replies saying that engine looks "good."
Now don't get me wrong- its not *BAD* either, and it should easily go many more miles with nothing except the same oil diet its been getting. But I'd call it "OK" or "average," not "good." Its pretty typical of engines I used to see run on good dino oil back in the 70s and 80s. But when I've opened 200k-mile class engines that have been run on modern synthetics (my wife's former 93 Chrysler 3.5 at 200k miles on M1, for example- I sure wish I'd had a camera handy when I did that job a few years ago) I have gotten accustomed to seeing *NO* yellow or brown at all, just metal that looks like its fresh off the milling machine. The absence of yellow varnish may not lengthen the life of the engine much or any, but it is a key difference between synthetics and non-synthetics and why I personally think that its false economy to look for bargain oil all the time.
JMO.
Now don't get me wrong- its not *BAD* either, and it should easily go many more miles with nothing except the same oil diet its been getting. But I'd call it "OK" or "average," not "good." Its pretty typical of engines I used to see run on good dino oil back in the 70s and 80s. But when I've opened 200k-mile class engines that have been run on modern synthetics (my wife's former 93 Chrysler 3.5 at 200k miles on M1, for example- I sure wish I'd had a camera handy when I did that job a few years ago) I have gotten accustomed to seeing *NO* yellow or brown at all, just metal that looks like its fresh off the milling machine. The absence of yellow varnish may not lengthen the life of the engine much or any, but it is a key difference between synthetics and non-synthetics and why I personally think that its false economy to look for bargain oil all the time.
JMO.
My point earlier was that Mobil 1 engines are usually very clean. I bet if after using the Auto-Rx he ran that it would stay very clean. I also wouldn't be surprised that if only Mobil 1 was used for a few short intervals at first and then used normally that the engine would be much cleaner.
My 01 Impala with some odd 90k miles has a light brown varnish, and that was with 3-4k OCi's on M1 synthetic, so it does happen, its harmless but a synthetic can varnish. My Xterra which I just bought is spotless using a flashlight down the pour tube, i am not sure what it looked like before, but it only has 32k miles and is a 2004. I drained the dealer fill and used synpower about a month ago, so I'll keep tabs on it and report back.
I do want to see some after pictures though, Camry's were known to be sludgers only if they were neglected, and that can be cleaned up with a conventional more so than a synthetic I would think as Conventionals tend to have a lot more add packs, Pennzoil YB or HM and Maxlife conventionals are some really good oils for cleaning.
I do want to see some after pictures though, Camry's were known to be sludgers only if they were neglected, and that can be cleaned up with a conventional more so than a synthetic I would think as Conventionals tend to have a lot more add packs, Pennzoil YB or HM and Maxlife conventionals are some really good oils for cleaning.
Originally Posted By: Anies
My 01 Impala with some odd 90k miles has a light brown varnish, and that was with 3-4k OCi's on M1 synthetic, so it does happen, its harmless but a synthetic can varnish.
Careful! You are going to pop someones Syn bubble.
You are correct with 2 things.
1. Syn is not the end all of "preventing" varnish and deposits as you are finding out.
2. More important is that it is HARMLESS.
Quote:
I do want to see some after pictures though, Camry's were known to be sludgers only if they were neglected, and that can be cleaned up with a conventional more so than a synthetic I would think as Conventionals tend to have a lot more add packs, Pennzoil YB or HM and Maxlife conventionals are some really good oils for cleaning.
Correct. NEGLECTED is the word for 90%+ of the sludgers.
Bill
My 01 Impala with some odd 90k miles has a light brown varnish, and that was with 3-4k OCi's on M1 synthetic, so it does happen, its harmless but a synthetic can varnish.
Careful! You are going to pop someones Syn bubble.
You are correct with 2 things.
1. Syn is not the end all of "preventing" varnish and deposits as you are finding out.
2. More important is that it is HARMLESS.
Quote:
I do want to see some after pictures though, Camry's were known to be sludgers only if they were neglected, and that can be cleaned up with a conventional more so than a synthetic I would think as Conventionals tend to have a lot more add packs, Pennzoil YB or HM and Maxlife conventionals are some really good oils for cleaning.
Correct. NEGLECTED is the word for 90%+ of the sludgers.
Bill
Aye, before I had purchased my 04 Xterra I was seriously looking at the VW Passat, I found a few of them relatively cheap and the same low mileage but my one concern was the 1.8T engine. These engines are great except if they weren't properly taken care of. They had roughly 30-45k on each of them but being used(really only the 1.8T cars) I didn't want to run the risk of inheriting someone elses neglect.
A Toyota Camry v6 is nowhere near the VW 1.8T in terms of sludge production and is very forgiving when its left uncared for, so you did good with your Camry purchase, I wish you the best with that car!
A Toyota Camry v6 is nowhere near the VW 1.8T in terms of sludge production and is very forgiving when its left uncared for, so you did good with your Camry purchase, I wish you the best with that car!
When you have this
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
Then you have a sludge problem, roughly 8700 miles on dino, not sure how the guy drove but he put the motor in some extremely "severe" operation. It's important to note what the guy says in one of the pictures towards the bottom. If you take care of your car, it will look like what you see, the guy who brought it in did not. You on the other hand are in great condition and as others said your good for many more miles and years to come.
Use one of the recommended oils and do 5k OCI's with Pennzoil YB or a HM oil to help clean some of the other guys use. You'll be a happy camper.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
Then you have a sludge problem, roughly 8700 miles on dino, not sure how the guy drove but he put the motor in some extremely "severe" operation. It's important to note what the guy says in one of the pictures towards the bottom. If you take care of your car, it will look like what you see, the guy who brought it in did not. You on the other hand are in great condition and as others said your good for many more miles and years to come.
Use one of the recommended oils and do 5k OCI's with Pennzoil YB or a HM oil to help clean some of the other guys use. You'll be a happy camper.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Anies
When you have this
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
Then you have a sludge problem, roughly 8700 miles on dino, not sure how the guy drove but he put the motor in some extremely "severe" operation. You on the other hand are in great condition and as others said your good for many more miles and years to come.
Use one of the recommended oils and do 5k OCI's with Pennzoil YB or a HM oil to help clean some of the other guys use. You'll be a happy camper.
No Toyota's for me. I thought they were best thing since sliced bread.
When you have this
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
Then you have a sludge problem, roughly 8700 miles on dino, not sure how the guy drove but he put the motor in some extremely "severe" operation. You on the other hand are in great condition and as others said your good for many more miles and years to come.
Use one of the recommended oils and do 5k OCI's with Pennzoil YB or a HM oil to help clean some of the other guys use. You'll be a happy camper.
No Toyota's for me. I thought they were best thing since sliced bread.
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