Do the Auto-Rx and keep us up to date with photos. Auto-Rx is safe and if you change the filter often like Gary suggests you get through this. The valve seal may even recover to the point of reducing the smoking. If replacing them at the end of a few cycles is all you have to do to complete the project then you will have saved a lot of money in the long run.
1996 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE V6 Engine Sludge Dilemna
- Thread starter Jonness
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Loobed: I bought the car used.
I dropped the oil pan today and there was an extremely thick layer of crusty stuff over everything down there. Probably enough to fill a 12 oz beer mug.
The thing is, I had dumped about a half gallon of kerosene down the heads when I brushed them off, so the kerosene and oil layed in the pan an soaked for a week. This made it very easy to scrape off. But since the engine has a two-part pan, I only scraped the stuff out of the easy to get off oil pan. The stuff in the other pan is still in there. So this puts me in a dilemna about using the auto-rx. I feel so much stuff will break off from having had the kerosene and original oil soaking for a week in the pan, that it will easily clog the pickup tube. So I do not want to run auto-rx for a thousand miles. I feel I should either do some straight oil flushes with short intervals for a while, or I should do some 5-minute kerosene flushes removing the pan between each one and cleaning out the oil pickup screen.
I dropped the oil pan today and there was an extremely thick layer of crusty stuff over everything down there. Probably enough to fill a 12 oz beer mug.
Okay, just so I don't exaggerate the amount of stuff in the pan area. I pressure washed the pan out, and it is clean as a pin. I scraped all the stuff you see here out of the little oil pan, but there is as much stuff (crusty but now softened) in the other oil pan looking thing that is still on the car.
Here are some pics before I scraped the stuff out of there. Actually, the photos are of the cleanest area down there. I failed to get photos of the other side where I scraped most of the stuff off of (it was really caked on the other end). It was too dark for my camcorder, and I kind of aimed blindly with my hand-held camera and didn't get very good shots. As you can see though, the oil pickup screen is not only tiny, it has a weird housing around it that makes it particularly easy to clog. I feel had I circulated the kerosene softened gunk I took out of there and never looked at the screen, I probably would have clogged it (even just using regular oil).
Here are some pics before I scraped the stuff out of there. Actually, the photos are of the cleanest area down there. I failed to get photos of the other side where I scraped most of the stuff off of (it was really caked on the other end). It was too dark for my camcorder, and I kind of aimed blindly with my hand-held camera and didn't get very good shots. As you can see though, the oil pickup screen is not only tiny, it has a weird housing around it that makes it particularly easy to clog. I feel had I circulated the kerosene softened gunk I took out of there and never looked at the screen, I probably would have clogged it (even just using regular oil).
The Auto-Rx should help.Use a good diesel oil for the rinse phase as they are better at suspending contaminants and have higher detergency.
I didn't know that.
Where do I get diesel oil at and what vicosity and brand do you recommend?
Thanx
The previous owner of the vehicle needs to be kicked in teh nads.
That motor has been neglected. Thats not from normal oil changes. It's not the worst I have seen, But it's very bad.
That motor has been neglected. Thats not from normal oil changes. It's not the worst I have seen, But it's very bad.
Almost anywhere you can buy regular auto oil.
Wal Mart sells it. (Shell Rotella, Castrol, Chevron, and Mobil) I think it's about $8 a gallon
It's usually labled 15W-40 for Dino oil
and 5W-40 for Synthetic
What he said,and Shell Rotella in 10w30 at oreilly's and walmart if you want to go lighter. The 15w40 won't hurt it though.
Seeing as how the clearances are likely opened up a bit from all the gunk in the engine:
A 15W40 HDEO would be high on my list.
In warmer weather that is...(temps above freezing).
This weight will likely help with any smoking/consumption issues, and give the bearings a little extra support.
I agree with the use of Auto-Rx, and please change the oil filter a little more frequently for the several thousand miles that Auto-Rx will be doing its work.
You wouldn't want the filter to go into bypass with all that grime coming loose in there.
On the same note I suggest keeping the RPM down to the minimum necessary until its warmed up, this will lessen the possibility of the filter going into bypass when the engine is cold.
When its warmed up the oil is thinner creating less back pressure in the oil filter.
Is there an over sized oil filter available for this engine?
Good luck Sir.
Rickey.
A 15W40 HDEO would be high on my list.
In warmer weather that is...(temps above freezing).
This weight will likely help with any smoking/consumption issues, and give the bearings a little extra support.
I agree with the use of Auto-Rx, and please change the oil filter a little more frequently for the several thousand miles that Auto-Rx will be doing its work.
You wouldn't want the filter to go into bypass with all that grime coming loose in there.
On the same note I suggest keeping the RPM down to the minimum necessary until its warmed up, this will lessen the possibility of the filter going into bypass when the engine is cold.
When its warmed up the oil is thinner creating less back pressure in the oil filter.
Is there an over sized oil filter available for this engine?
Good luck Sir.
Rickey.
The question of can HDEO by itself clean an engine like some syntheticis have been able to do over a long period of time. The answer was no, there has been no documented cases where diesel oil by itself seemed to make a difference. So expecting 15W-40 oil to clean better than 5W-30 your engine was spec'd for is wishful thinking.
Thick oil is not going to flow as well as thin oil. Oil flow and heat are keys for getting the most out of ARX.
I tried 15W-40 during one of my rinse phases. I didn't observe anything unique about the results. Perhaps it was just my imagination but I thought the engine ran smooth, though sluggish, with the diesel oil in it.
Thick oil is not going to flow as well as thin oil. Oil flow and heat are keys for getting the most out of ARX.
I tried 15W-40 during one of my rinse phases. I didn't observe anything unique about the results. Perhaps it was just my imagination but I thought the engine ran smooth, though sluggish, with the diesel oil in it.
Amen: it's better protection but not better cleaning.
To the original poster-have you pulled then pan yet or not? Arx will work very slowly and unless your pickup is already clogged, I wouldn't stress too, too much. Pulling the pan may not be a bad idea somehwere down the line to find out if you're JUST dealing with sludge here. The problem on my car (SAAB) isn't the sludge but the crumbling bits of hose rubber from decayed PCV hose. Nothing will dissolve those and left untended they can easily clog passages and the pickup.
HDEO is better at suspension of particulate matter.Now granted it's only my opinion that means it will carry away the little bits and pieces that have been broken up by the kerosene flushes the poster is doing.I did 2 Auto-Rx flushes in a 89 Escort I owned and the Rotella I used the 2nd time seemed to help,again it's only my opinion.
This is how my friend fixed his sludgey toyota engine. Get some cheap engine flushes screw the Kerosene. Do a intial fill of the motor when it is put together of some good diesel oil rotella being my personal fave, put in the cheap engine flush run it for the time they say on it. Do a oil change right away repeat the same process. do it again but this time change the filter, cut open the old to check it out with a hacksaw. do not worry about metal dust because filter material is usually shinny compared to engine stuff. after this do a oil change every 1000kms with a cheap oil for 3 times, then get auto rx go for a double dose
BrianWC: I pulled the pan. The pics of the pickup tube are posted above. The pan is easy to remove, so I'll probably continue to take it off and clean it througout this flushing process.
Syntec-Man: Most people here are recommending not using the harsh solvents. I'm not too worried about using them and having things clog up, because I will be changing the filter often and pulling and cleaning the pan and pickup tube. So my only concern about the solvent is that it might be too hard on the seals.
My question to those recommending the auto-rx without the pre-solvent flushes. I have 3 bottles of auto-rx. How clean can I expect 3 treatments to get this engine? Will the auto-rx actually clean more thoroughly than the solvent?
Syntec-Man: Most people here are recommending not using the harsh solvents. I'm not too worried about using them and having things clog up, because I will be changing the filter often and pulling and cleaning the pan and pickup tube. So my only concern about the solvent is that it might be too hard on the seals.
My question to those recommending the auto-rx without the pre-solvent flushes. I have 3 bottles of auto-rx. How clean can I expect 3 treatments to get this engine? Will the auto-rx actually clean more thoroughly than the solvent?
Ah, I see. Didn't see it in the picks but went back and re-read. The thing to remember is oil hits the pickup screen before it can get to the filter. So the filter won't prevent large chunks from clogging your oil pickup tube. This is the same dilemma SAAB owners battling sludge face. Some poke holes in the pickup mesh. However, the larger debris can play havoc with the oil pump.
The reason arx is recommended is b/c it cleans slowly and dissolves layer at a time, as it tries to reach bare metal. If you were going to use a solvent, I wouldn't suggest driving with it or even running it at idle with that much goo. Perhaps if you filled up the engine (literally) with an oil/solvent mix and let it soak for a day or something, then did a flush with regular oil then dropped the pan and inspected the pickup for clogs...then run the arx. Maybe that'd give it a head start. But that's still more than I am confortable doing!
What you have to remember, is that it's not just a question of seals when running a flush. If you break loose a lot of that gunk at once and it circulates in the oil, it'll be like sandpaper to your bearings.....
it's a shame, I really like Avalons!
The reason arx is recommended is b/c it cleans slowly and dissolves layer at a time, as it tries to reach bare metal. If you were going to use a solvent, I wouldn't suggest driving with it or even running it at idle with that much goo. Perhaps if you filled up the engine (literally) with an oil/solvent mix and let it soak for a day or something, then did a flush with regular oil then dropped the pan and inspected the pickup for clogs...then run the arx. Maybe that'd give it a head start. But that's still more than I am confortable doing!
What you have to remember, is that it's not just a question of seals when running a flush. If you break loose a lot of that gunk at once and it circulates in the oil, it'll be like sandpaper to your bearings.....
it's a shame, I really like Avalons!
Ahhh, that is very helpful. Thank you. I think I am going to start with a < 1-hour straight oil flush as recommended earlier in this thread. I'll then pull the pan and filter, and see what circulated, refresh and do a hundred mile straight oil change. Then I'll start with the auto-rx keeping my eye on the filter. I'll do 1000 miles for the 1st OCI changing out the filter at 500 miles. I'll pull the pan, inspect the filter, and then start the rinse phase. On subsequent phases I'll keep the filters changed out and procede less cautiously when I see that the filters can handle the gunk without going into bypass mode.
I'd like to thank everyone at this group for all of the help. Your efforts are greatly appreciated. I'll continue to update this thread as I progress.
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