1996 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE V6 Engine Sludge Dilemna

[Jonness]

I have a 1996 Toyota Avalon with 178,000 miles that emits a huge smoke cloud upon startup. It burns lots of oil but otherwise runs very well. The oil looks clean on the stick, but I removed the valve cover, and found a big mess of crusty sludge with somewhat of a hard texture. If I rub it between my fingers, it breaks down somewhat and becomes goo, but a lot of it is still hard and crusty and turns into flakes.

I read the following web page, and decided to fix it the suggested way of removing the valve covers and oil pan and cleaning them out with diesel fuel. Then changing the oil-pump pickup screen:

http://yotarepair.com/Engine_replace.html

I read that diesel fuel could be bad for the engine, so I decided to use kerosine instead. I warmed the engine up and removed the valve covers and had to scrape the stuff off with a soft wire brush as the kerosine did not dissolve the sludge on impact. I ended up with a large amount of sludge flakes getting all over the place, so I poured more kerosine on the heads in order to wash what I could down through the oil passages and into the oil pan.

I bought 3 bottles of Auto-RX, and that is as far as I got.

Right now, I am afraid that all of the crusty flakes that I scraped off the heads and washed down the oil passages are going to get into the wrong places and clog things up. I want to pull the pan and clean it up and then do 3 courses of auto-rx. But I hope I have not done the wrong thing by removing the valve covers and trying to clean the heads.

So I'm asking for advice from the experts on this forum. What would you do in my situation. I can post pictures of what the heads looked like before I cleaned them as well as what the crusty sludge looked like when I squeezed it between my finger-tips if that will help. I didn't clean it extremely thoroughly in there as I thought I would save that for the auto-rx. I just brushed off what was easy as the way it was there were large globs ready to fall off and clog oil passages.

Thank you,

Jonness

 

[PRND3L]

Hey Joness post the pics and you'll get better feedback.

Oh, and

 

[TurboJim]

If you haven't already done so I would replace the PVC valve before you get too far along in this project.

When in doubt about using Auto-Rx ask Frank.

 

[Jonness]

If you have mass bandwidth, here is a link to a 113mb video:

http://www.bombproofsoftware.com/SuperstitionHollow/AvalonSludge.wmv

And here are some photos:

 

[Dr_No]

I say, do three COMPLETE auto-rx treatments.
Clean+Rinse x 3 and take pictures of the valve cover.

 

[derek244]

Yikes. I have never seen sludge repaired with any fluid treatment. No offence to Auto RX users, but that sludge is hard and crusty stuff. It does not disolve easily.

The valve seals are hardened from the sludge issue for sure. After trying the Auto RX please let know what happens.

Scraping the sludge off or disturbing it may result in crank bearing damage after it finally works it way into the oil sump screen. I have seen this more than once. Personally I would not be surprised if you get into some serious repair to get it done to your satisfaction. Maybe I am wrong though...

 

[kelpie]

Agree with above. You could clog up screen and have a oil starvation issue. Would be worth a try is you keep an eye on the oil light and shut it off ASAP if it comes on.

 

[nuskool]

Auto-Rx has some pretty heavy claims if you read the web site. I have not used it yet, but it's was just shipped to me yesterday and I will be putting it a 93 Geo with an engine that is burning a lot of oil. I'm hopeful, but no great loss if it doesn't work.

I guess my thoughts are trying Auto-Rx certainly couldn't hurt. You may be able to contact them and send them the pics you posted for us and they may be able to tell you if the treatment will work.

 

[TurboJim]

The first place oil goes after the oil pump is into the oil filter. As long as the oil pump pick up screen does not get clogged and the filter doesn't go into by-pass from being overloaded with contaminent you should be fine as far as preventing engine damage from this material traveling around internally.

To be on the safe side I would not run any of the ARX cycles longer than what is recommended. If there are any concerns along the way you may want to open up a filter to see how much loose stuff is being trapped. ARX will liquify the majority of what you are seeing however. Expect to see a lot of liquid sludge come out when you drain your oil.

 

[derek244]

Jim, the problem is you can't see the sump screen very easy. They do get clogged with sludge debris regardless of the oil filter going into bypass mode or not. We are replacing the engine block and crank/rods in a Sienna right now that has a de-sludging done about a year ago. The engine was nice and clean until you got to the sump screen. It was plugged with debris that was losened during the previous repair attempt. I have seen this several times. The debris lays around in the pan and gets sucked up into the screen. It never gets a chance to get to the filter.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Joness, did you drop that oil pan too?

 

[Jonness]

I haven't dropped the pan yet. Today I did my best to clean up the valve covers. The breather holes were plugged shut, so I took a pressure washer and compressed air to them. The PVC passageways appear to be pretty clear now.

Tomorrow, I will get some new gaskets, put the top-end back together, and drop the pan.

From what you guys are telling me, as long as I keep a close eye on the pickup screen and oil filter, I should be okay. In that case, it might be a good idea to drop the pan and look in there several times as I try to clean this engine out. That seems like cheap insurance to keep from burning up the engine.

I have to say, I am tempted to run a 5-minute cycle of 75% oil and 25% kerosene when I put this back together, but you guys seem to think I should stay away from the harsh solvents, so I'll take your advice and stick with the auto-rx. I'm curious as to how good that stuff is going to work anyways. I'll take before/after photos for those that are curious. I notice there is some debate going on as to how good this stuff works, so I'll photo-document the procedure in order to get some more data out there.

BTW, my 3 bottles of auto-rx arrived via DHL today (Saturday). That was pretty fast service!

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Whether you add the kerosene or not, I would definitely do a short

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

The video was great stuff, looking forward to your progress.

 

[gomes512]

Aye, my buddy and I had a similar problem with a 455 we got from someone. That thing was sludged up beyond recognition not to mention all the built up paraffin from the older oils it use to run for [censored] knows how long.

Wal-mart comes into play here with there blue bottle oil special. We must of picked up a 55gallon drums worth of that stuff and did three flushes in a row each blacker than the last. On the fourth we did some moderate driving, and flushed again. Fifth was a repeat, and on the sixth we hit the freeway for one ramps worth of high rpm driving. Flushed again and did same and finally got to the point where we could confidently blast down the freeway. From that point on it was a matter of changing every 1k. Sounds a bit excessive but the thing runs like a clock now.

Someone suggested we try a solvent such as diesel straight into the oil, but I'd be afraid it would throw the viscosity way out of wack. Anyways good luck!

 

[Gary Allan]

I think that you will quickly saturate your filter during these treatments. I would probably swap them out while leaving the Auto-Rx oil in there ..dump the oil that you can pour out of the filter back in if you so desire. Some filters have a capacity around 8-10 gms of solids. You're going to be putting many times that into suspension in a very short time.

Just my $0.02

 

[Rickey]

I agree with what Gary and others say about the filter plugging, and frequent filter changes.

If it were mine I would check the PCV as mentioned by others.

I would also check/change the thermostat, if the engine never fully warms up sludge buildup is promoted.

I would get as much detergency/solvency into the oil as safely possible.
Then keep an eye on the oil level and change the filter frequently.

It would be a possible benefit to your treatment if you could cut open the oil filters to check progress/clogging.

Good luck Sir.

Rickey.

 

[Cooper]

By the way......

First off, I would have to say that this is the best newbie post I have ever seen, pictures and all....I would put you as a BITOG member instead of the newbie status if I were a moderator, but I am not.

As for your engine, I believe that the 3 Auto-RX cycles will help a lot. I have done multiple ARX treatments in my vehicles, and they have made great improvements all around for me. Auto-RX will help to "liquify" that hard sludge and help to break it down and put it into suspension so that you can easily remove it with just replacing the oil filter and following Franks intructions. After that, I would personally go with a good GIII Synthetic oil, like Pennzoil Platinum.

Just do some research, and you will become more comfortable with your choice to go with the Auto-RX, it should help a ton.

 

[Loobed]

Did you buy this Toyota New or Used? What type oil has been used in the motor?

Like someone said, your valve seals are hard and no longer work, which is why your engine smokes when it's first started.


If it was my engine and I didn't want to do a rebuild in the near future, I would just wipe everything off that I could get at, and leave the reast alone. The engine will probably last longer if you leave everything the way it is instead of trying to clean it up with a solvent in the oil.

 

[Gary Allan]

loobed - Auto-Rx isn't a solvent. It will take thousands of miles to complete three treatments. It will be over 3k for the first cleaning and rinse cycle (it's been a while since I've used it). This isn't kero in a can stuff. Very slow and gentle. He did more "harm" by scoring the existing structure, exposing the various layers, than Auto-Rx could do. Very easy on the disruptions.