1992 Geo Prizm Auto Trans Fluid Never Changed

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Its like playing Russian Roulette. It sucks!

Originally Posted By: caravanmike
Originally Posted By: JasonK94Z
I'm still undecided about all this. I get mixed reviews everywhere I ask.

I'm sorry guys. I guess I'm scared because I did this once on a 74 Monte Carlo that I got from my parents when I turned 16. The car was 16 yrs old too with 63k miles. My dad had used it to tow a 21 foot boat for several years too. The fluid was never changed, so I took it upon myself to have the pan dropped and change the fluid. 2 weeks later, the transmission burned up.

I just put 16 hours of work into removing the severe oxidation from the paint, shampood the interior, repainted the bumpers, etc. I'd like to drive this thing for a couple of years.

Not changing it is driving me crazy! Thinking about changing it scares me however. I'm worrying like an old lady over here LOL. What to do, what to do?!?!

this is a personal decision only you can make their is no "right answer," and alot of gray area.
if the car is still nice and not a beater i personally would go the slow replacement route, but remember if it grenades after the fluid change it was bad anyway! mike
 
I would do drain/fills every 5k mile oil change for 3 oil changes or so. Just my opinion though. I can't see how changing the fluid is going to hurt it in any way though. I would go for Valvoline Maxlife Dex/merc.
 
I guess I should think of it this way: If the car didn't have a separate differential in it with its own fluid, some of the trans fluid would get swapped out some during a half shaft replacement. No harm don there, or you really have no choice anyways.
 
Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
I would leave it alone. I have heard of auto transmissions going 300K+ miles with no fluid change. I might also talk to a toyota mechanic and see what they would suggest.

If the trans goes I think this should be something a junk yard would have on hand.


I am a Toyota Mechanic and my recomendation is this.
Drain and refill the transmission at every oil change (next 4-5 or so.) Until it looks clean on the stick. No need to change the filter on this car, as it is just a screen. This is a very straight forward process. Your car like most Toyota's has a drain plug on the trans pan.
It is a 10mm Allen. DO NOT USE A 3/8" Allen, if you do, you will round out the drain plug. So anyway, drain the fluid, you will get 2-3 quarts from it. Clean the drain plug, and trans pan with a rag. Reinstall the drain plug. Then refill the transmission, and check the dip stick. I would start with 2 quarts and then check the stick.
You want it to be between the marks on the cold side of the stick for now. After the transmission is refilled with
Dexron III ATF (Most common ATF around) take your car for a road test, of AT LEAST 3 miles. Then recheck the fluid level.
It should now be between the marks on the High side of the stick. This is because the fluid expands as it heats up.
Add more fluid if necessary, if not, then you are done.
I would not flush it at this point, It may dislodge something and cause problems. I would just change the fluid progressively, and you should be fine.
In regards to the T-Belt, they are recomended every 60k, and they break about 80-90k.(No Worries, this is a
NON-interference motor, if the belt breaks, just reset the timing, and install a new belt, and you are good to go)

This is a very easy job on this car.
The only part that sucks is getting the middle timing belt cover off with the water pump pulley in the way. It doesn't feel like it will come off with out breaking, but it will.
It just takes some patience. While you are in there I would also change the tensioner, cam seal, crank seal, and water pump. If this is your first time doing a timing belt and seals, plan on 3-5 hours. If you are good with your hands, it should only take you about 1 1/2-2 hours.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Justin
 
Thanks Justin. Seems like the majority here vote to drain/refill several times. I will do this this coming weekend.

The timing belt will be changed right away. I knew about the tensioner, my neighbor had that problem on a Camry. He replaced the belt, and 2 weeks later that old tensioner tore it up LOL!


Originally Posted By: JustinC25
Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
I would leave it alone. I have heard of auto transmissions going 300K+ miles with no fluid change. I might also talk to a toyota mechanic and see what they would suggest.

If the trans goes I think this should be something a junk yard would have on hand.


I am a Toyota Mechanic and my recomendation is this.
Drain and refill the transmission at every oil change (next 4-5 or so.) Until it looks clean on the stick. No need to change the filter on this car, as it is just a screen. This is a very straight forward process. Your car like most Toyota's has a drain plug on the trans pan.
It is a 10mm Allen. DO NOT USE A 3/8" Allen, if you do, you will round out the drain plug. So anyway, drain the fluid, you will get 2-3 quarts from it. Clean the drain plug, and trans pan with a rag. Reinstall the drain plug. Then refill the transmission, and check the dip stick. I would start with 2 quarts and then check the stick.
You want it to be between the marks on the cold side of the stick for now. After the transmission is refilled with
Dexron III ATF (Most common ATF around) take your car for a road test, of AT LEAST 3 miles. Then recheck the fluid level.
It should now be between the marks on the High side of the stick. This is because the fluid expands as it heats up.
Add more fluid if necessary, if not, then you are done.
I would not flush it at this point, It may dislodge something and cause problems. I would just change the fluid progressively, and you should be fine.
In regards to the T-Belt, they are recomended every 60k, and they break about 80-90k.(No Worries, this is a
NON-interference motor, if the belt breaks, just reset the timing, and install a new belt, and you are good to go)

This is a very easy job on this car.
The only part that sucks is getting the middle timing belt cover off with the water pump pulley in the way. It doesn't feel like it will come off with out breaking, but it will.
It just takes some patience. While you are in there I would also change the tensioner, cam seal, crank seal, and water pump. If this is your first time doing a timing belt and seals, plan on 3-5 hours. If you are good with your hands, it should only take you about 1 1/2-2 hours.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Justin
 
Here is a link to the instructions for the t-belt:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0fd1dbbcac08fc91e7c82ed4b8f0c380a151d05720356bb3ce018c8114394287

It's in a PDF. Please let me know if you have any questions.
The waterpump pulley is extremely difficult to remove while the waterpump is still on the car. Just wiggle the middle cover out. When you have it all apart change the water pump and swap the pulley out when the pump is off the car.
Also dont forget to drain the coolant, and have a big catch pan ready as it makes a big mess when you remove the waterpump.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Justin
 
Thanks again. I'm pretty mechanically incline. i also have a 94 Camaro Z28 that is moddified a good bit. i did all the work on it myself.

The timing belt instructions are a big help. I have never worked on a sideways engine before LOL!


Originally Posted By: JustinC25
Here is a link to the instructions for the t-belt:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0fd1dbbcac08fc91e7c82ed4b8f0c380a151d05720356bb3ce018c8114394287

It's in a PDF. Please let me know if you have any questions.
The waterpump pulley is extremely difficult to remove while the waterpump is still on the car. Just wiggle the middle cover out. When you have it all apart change the water pump and swap the pulley out when the pump is off the car.
Also dont forget to drain the coolant, and have a big catch pan ready as it makes a big mess when you remove the waterpump.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Justin
 
Just purchased a '97 prizm a week ago, 122K on the clock everything original except the motor oil. That trans fluid was all dark brown and poured out faster than a bottle of methanol. The 3spd trans shifted great though. I did two pan drains within 30miles, all mostly red now. Shifts even better.

Same story with the separate diff oil.

Great 'lil cars.
 
Glad to see somebody else in the same boat with the same trans. Glad it worked out for you!

Originally Posted By: gomes512
Just purchased a '97 prizm a week ago, 122K on the clock everything original except the motor oil. That trans fluid was all dark brown and poured out faster than a bottle of methanol. The 3spd trans shifted great though. I did two pan drains within 30miles, all mostly red now. Shifts even better.

Same story with the separate diff oil.

Great 'lil cars.
 
Just changed the fluid in the Prizm. It was definitely brown, but still smelled like regular ATF. It did however flow like water out of the drain plug. It didn't have any viscosity left to it at all. The drain and refill took about 2.5 quarts.

Shifts slightly better now, but it shifted great to begin with anyways.
 
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Never leave bad fluid in a car no good come come from leaving bad fluid in the car. If you go to the ER with a arrow in your chest the Doctor does not tell you to just leave it alone they remove it! The only reason for leaving it in until you get tot he ER so you do not bleed out and die before you get their!

Order two bottles of Auto-Rx and do not argue with me this is a lawful order!!! Follow the directions for the Transmission,engine oil and powersteering fluid. By the Walmart brand Dex VI fluid. Drive that car for 1000 miles with the amount of Auto-Rx it calls for. Then pull the plug and you should get about 3 quarts of ATF out. Refill with fresh ATF and add a second dose of Auto-Rx and do another 1000 miles and drain and refill.

For the engine add one bottle of auto-rx and use a dino 5W30 and run it for 2000 miles then drain and refill with dino again. The seal's should stop leaking about 3000 miles into the rinse phase if they are going to stop leaking. I have seen auto-rx save front and rear main seals a bunch of times that we thought we would need to replace. The auto-rx is not a solvent flush it will actualy recondition the seals and clean the entire engine,transmission and power steering system slowly. Usualy just by cleaning the seals slowly like it does they are restored to close to new condition. It is money well spent even if you end up having to change the seals you know the engines oil pick up screen, piston rings and other parts will be clean and free from harmful deposits. The leading cause of transmission failure is unchanged oil as it oxidizes it starts to leave nasty deposits behind and the it makes the seals get really hard well hard seals do not seal very well and this is where the cleaning comes in. Unlike those harsh solvent transmission fix's in a bottle auto-rx does not swell the seals with seal swelling agents instead it cleans all the garbage off their surface so the oil and the chemicals int he oil can do their job properly.

I did the above to my wifes Buick Lasaber and I was able to get 40,000 extra miles out of her transmission before I needed to replace it. The transmission shop I took it to said it needed to be replaced ASAP but with Auto-RX I got another 40,000 miles. As it got worse I did have to thicken the fluid some with Lucas Transmission Additive but I do not think any of the other stuff I did latter would have mattered at all if I had not first cleaned it out with Auto-RX.....

The good thing about Toyota transmissions is that they have a drain plug so it is easy to just drain out the oil every time you change the oil for instance until you manage to get all the junk out....

You should check to see if it has a user serviceable filter because it is good to change those on vehicles that have them. At some point Toyota stoped useing them. They found that most of their transmission failures where cause by the user servicable filter pluging up from not being changed. So they just got rid of it and went to a sloush box and screen that back flush's when you shut it off. So now the only filter that are in them are very deep into the transmission and are screens that protect various small servos and solinoids!When they went away from user serviceable filters their transmission failure rate out of warranty droped drasticly.

Never leave dirty atf in! You can never make a worn out fluid do anything but do more damage. In my entire life I have never once seen a transmission fail because it's fluid was changed.I have heard the stories but this is really how it goes.....So lump head has a vechile that he has beat on since the day he got it. Then after 5 years of beating on it the transmission starts to act up. So first they try a transmission fix in a bottle and that helps a little bit but then the problem comes back so then they decide you know what that car has 140,000 miles on it maybe I should change the black burnt nasty rancid smelling ATF. They change it and 2 months latter the transmission fails. So it had to be one of two things according to them either it was that worthless transmission in a bottle or it was because they changed their ATF! The local mechanic is not going to tell his customer that he was a block head and should have changed it ever 50K at the very least other wise he might lose the job so he just nods his head and listens to his customer rant about what ever........Close look on his walls will probably have posters up telling people that they should change their ATF ever 24K and use a Magnafine filter or other such free promotional stuff that companies give mechanics to sell their services!


Nothing scream stupid more then doing nothing when you know something is worn out. The logic of leaving in old rancid burnt ATF just does not wash with anyone that is able to critically think for themselfs.That is the none sense you expect to hear when you are in South America watching people put tide detergent mixed with water into their engine's to flush it out!!! No I am not making that up either "detergent" v.s. "detergent" same word in tide as on the back of a bottle of motor oil and to someone that is lucky to be able to read they do not understand the difference! You run into that same problem on this site and on all automotive sights too many people with limited skills and intelligence as it relates to automobiles,machinery and lubrication but that does not stop them from posting an opinion as if it was fact.

Their is not a single OEM fluid UOA on this sight with 40K miles or more on it that looks good!! Their are some nice Amsoil and Redline reports but all the OEM products are spent well before the 40K mile mark.

Ihad one GM co worker that drove an all wheel drive GMC Safari van. She had 400,000 miles on the engine with no repairs tot he engine but was on here 4th transmission and second transfer case. She never changed here ATF or Gear Lube but always changed her oil at 3000 miles. I told her to start changing here ATF every 30K and she stoped going through transmissions left and right. No one ever told her to change the ATF as the owners manual does not list it as a service requirment until 100,000 miles which was the exact point she was loseing them at. Most GM workers get about 75,000 on average off their truck transmissions and would be needing a new one. On the other hand my boss had 380,000 miles on his and he changed his fluid once a year used the cheapest Dex II that Murry's Auto Parts carried!
 
Originally Posted By: JasonK94Z
Just changed the fluid in the Prizm. It was definitely brown, but still smelled like regular ATF. It did however flow like water out of the drain plug. It didn't have any viscosity left to it at all. The drain and refill took about 2.5 quarts.

Shifts slightly better now, but it shifted great to begin with anyways.
great keep us posted!!!
what type of fluid?
 
Jason,

I used the bulk 1gal ATF from Wal-Mart (Super-Tech) brand as the corolla/prizm in '97 called for DexIII. Shift quality is great but I wonder if it would change if I used DexVI. I'm assuming probably not as VI is backward compatible...

Let us know what you used.

I suctioned out the p/s fluid (DexIII again) and refilled with the same SuperTech fluid. My reservoir has a screen in it, to prevent debris from going into the pump I assume, and I made sure to suction the surface of it. Took me 3 fills and drains before the fluid turned clear, each time I started it up and turned the wheel lock to lock 6 times.

Some small debris were present, steering whine is now gone.
 
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
does it have the original timing belt too?


He better hope not!!


LOL! It does have the original timing belt on it. Glad it's a non-interference engine. It will get replaced soon along with water pump (original) and the crank and cam seals that are leaking will be replaced.
 
I used Spertech Dexron fluid in the blue gallon jug also.

I need to do the power steering fluid also. What scares me is I found a opened quart of valvoline high mileage power steering fluid under the front seat. Hope it's compatable with the Dexron III it is supposed to have.

Originally Posted By: gomes512
Jason,

I used the bulk 1gal ATF from Wal-Mart (Super-Tech) brand as the corolla/prizm in '97 called for DexIII. Shift quality is great but I wonder if it would change if I used DexVI. I'm assuming probably not as VI is backward compatible...

Let us know what you used.

I suctioned out the p/s fluid (DexIII again) and refilled with the same SuperTech fluid. My reservoir has a screen in it, to prevent debris from going into the pump I assume, and I made sure to suction the surface of it. Took me 3 fills and drains before the fluid turned clear, each time I started it up and turned the wheel lock to lock 6 times.

Some small debris were present, steering whine is now gone.
 
Jason, if you haven't already picked up the parts for the T-belt.
Check out RockAuto.com, they have great parts for cheap money.
You can get everything you need for $75.00 Shipped.

Also if you haven't already done them I would spring for a set of plugs. These things don't run right unless they have a set of Denso, or NGK plugs. They'll run you $1.50 Each. And Finally one word of caution. When doing plugs, aftermarket wires tend to rip. Even with 3000 miles on them. I've had it happen myself on my
'91 Corolla All-Trac Wagon. If they are factory wires than you are all set. But if they are aftermarket, then just have a set ready. (They are one piece with the cap) Also when you order this stuff just make sure to do it under a '92 Corolla otherwise they won't list the Denso plugs.
These are great cars and you will get many years out of it.
I got 293k out of mine before I sold it.
Let me know if you have any other questions.

Justin
 
You may want to consider getting one of these and installing it on the trans cooler line:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G4980/

Takes a standard PH8A/L30001 oil filter. I've heard nothing but good things from the several members on another forum I frequent who got one and I plan on getting one for my Explorer with 180k. One guy, who without this filter otherwise babied his truck and tranny, cut open his first filter after 500 miles after installation of one of these kits at like 110k and had all kinds of shavings and shards stuck in it. He subsequently installed one on every one of his cars.
 
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