1965 AMC Rambler American, Inline 6

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
[
The flat head engine dated back to the 1930s.

It was a 195.6 cid engine.

It was a reasonably decent engine, but as with all flatheads prone to overheating under sustained heavy load. This is what happens when the hot exhaust travels through the cylinder block to the exhaust manifold.

In 1958 they made it into an OHV engine. The pushrods came up through the holes where the L-head valves used to be. Also the plates that covered the L-head valve adjustments were still there, although now decorative rather than functional.

As with all long-stroke straight sixes it was great at low end and not-too-hot at high speeds.

The aluminum version of it was junk. AMC had so many problems with it they sold a kit engine - a cast iron block engine with a pile of adapters for every kind of transmission and installation you could imagine, and shims for the front springs to bring the car back up to level.




So, was I right that in '65 (and we don't know which model the OP is talking about) the 232 and the 196 coexisted in various models?

I remember the aluminum Rambler six in the late '60s in a Scout leader's vehicle. I'm not sure I remember what year the car was. I know it was a wagon and I seem to remember '63. He had has good luck with it (up to that point anyway). I know he still had it when I went off to serve my country in the early '70s

So, Wilhelm, our apparent resident AMC expert, answering the OP's question on oil viscosity... where do you sit?

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: labman
I happen to know what engine was in my dad's car.


Please find a reference to an aluminum V-8 made by AMC.

I worked for them for a number of years.

The only aluminum engine they ever made was a straight six.

It was made as a result of a contract with the Marine Corps for an aluminum straight six.

They, unfortunately, decided to use the tooling for an engine option for the civilian market.

It was a disaster.

The blocks warped, the freeze plugs leaked, and the only cure was a replacement engine made of cast iron.

 

[labman]

http://www.hemmings.com/editorial/HCC_index.html I don't know if they made it. They bought a bunch of stuff.

 

[mechjames]

Here is a video. I got it home last night and started it this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQFAtkjqLWI

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: mechjames
Here is a video. I got it home last night and started it this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQFAtkjqLWI


Looks like fun, also looks like it's complete and has a straight body for a 65.

 

[wolfc70]

The AMC 195.6 was a good durable engine, in either iron or aluminum form. Both versions were fairly maintenance intensive; head bolts had to be re torqued every 8-12K miles, or the gaskets would go bad. At this time a valve adjustment should be done, IIRC you need the engine running to do a proper valve adjustment. Other than that, they seem to run a long long time.

The later 199, 232, 252, 258, sixes were also very durable, and were the basis for the JEEP 4.0 six.

I would think any xW-30/40 would work just fine, I think these engines were not too highly stressed.

 

[dnastrau]

Good luck with your Rambler! One tip: I see that you have the Borg Warner "Flash-o-matic" transmission. Make sure you use D1 as your normal transmission driving range. The first drive position on these is D2 which starts in second gear and is for starting out on slippery roads. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury cars also used this confusing shift pattern through '66 with many of theirs having a white dot for D2 and a green dot for D1.

A lot of people who drive these cars now select the wrong driving range as they pick D2 by default as it is next to neutral - like "drive" in a new car. By doing this they constantly start out in second gear which gives lousy performance and it is hard on the transmission.

Andrew S.

 

[mechjames]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
The AMC 195.6 was a good durable engine, in either iron or aluminum form. Both versions were fairly maintenance intensive; head bolts had to be re torqued every 8-12K miles, or the gaskets would go bad. At this time a valve adjustment should be done, IIRC you need the engine running to do a proper valve adjustment. Other than that, they seem to run a long long time.

The later 199, 232, 252, 258, sixes were also very durable, and were the basis for the JEEP 4.0 six.

I would think any xW-30/40 would work just fine, I think these engines were not too highly stressed.


I'll be adjusting the valves next week. I'll be sure to show you guys what 45 year oil varnish looks like.

Originally Posted By: dnastrau
Good luck with your Rambler! One tip: I see that you have the Borg Warner "Flash-o-matic" transmission. Make sure you use D1 as your normal transmission driving range. The first drive position on these is D2 which starts in second gear and is for starting out on slippery roads. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury cars also used this confusing shift pattern through '66 with many of theirs having a white dot for D2 and a green dot for D1.

A lot of people who drive these cars now select the wrong driving range as they pick D2 by default as it is next to neutral - like "drive" in a new car. By doing this they constantly start out in second gear which gives lousy performance and it is hard on the transmission.

Andrew S.


Hmm, I did notice better peformance in D1, but I swear it only went to second gear in D1, and went into a third gear when I switched it to D2. I haven't driven it since so I could be wrong. Someone MAY have swapped the transmission, i'm not sure.

 

[Gary Allan]

The first detent available from N should be the full range selection. Lots of 50's and 60's auto's had oddball stuff like this. I recall a Buick we had with the selection of GRADE (or something like that). I guess that was one of the Dynaflow transmissions.

Ford always seemed to have some thing going with the (would be) intermediate selection. Earlier versions seemed to go with start in 2nd and go to 3rd, while later models started in 2nd and stayed in 2nd. The feature, if I recall correctly, wasn't emphasized for lower traction situations, but more for urban driving where adjustments to speed were done in motion, not requiring the added wear and tear and fuel usage of another shift once the vehicle was moving.

That's just memory and I'm sure that it was used in the lower traction capacity by the more savvy drivers of the day.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The first detent available from N should be the full range selection. Lots of 50's and 60's auto's had oddball stuff like this. I recall a Buick we had with the selection of GRADE (or something like that). I guess that was one of the Dynaflow transmissions. {/quote}

The triple turine Dynaflows in 1958 had a G position. Stood for grade retard.

Ford always seemed to have some thing going with the (would be) intermediate selection. Earlier versions seemed to go with start in 2nd and go to 3rd, while later models started in 2nd and stayed in 2nd.


Ford-O-Matics from 1951 through about 1957 were three speed automatics that started in 2nd unless 1st was manually selected. IIRC, they were updated and called cruise-O-Matics in 1958 and had a drive range where they started in 1st. Borg
Warner automatic transmissions, which were used by AMC, seemed to be very similar to Ford automatics.

I believe some of the key automatic transmission designers migrated between companies in the 1950s.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
IIRC, they were updated and called cruise-O-Matics in 1958 and had a drive range where they started in 1st.


I believe you are correct. I think our 64 wagon had that. I think it too was promoted as a traffic mode driving feature. It would reduce braking and senseless shifts. I guess someone managed to stop the flip-flop with start in 2nd and stay in 2nd with the C series (4,4S,6)

I'm probably one of the few of my age bracket that experienced all these evolutions as a child. My parents didn't buy a new car until 1980. Excise taxes in MA made newer car ownership a challenge. 10 year old cars were a lot older in the 60's

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: labman
Did it still have the grooves in the head in place of the intake manifold? Not only did the plugs set where you could use an open end on them, the carb was bolted directly to the head.

My first car was a Nash.


I believe so, this project was decades ago so remembering is tough. It was as easy as they get to work on though. My FIL donated the car to my HS, and he had installed AC in this beast, the unit hung under the dash board. There weren't many of them around with this type of AC unit he had in it.

 

[dnastrau]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The first detent available from N should be the full range selection. Lots of 50's and 60's auto's had oddball stuff like this. I recall a Buick we had with the selection of GRADE (or something like that). I guess that was one of the Dynaflow transmissions.

Ford always seemed to have some thing going with the (would be) intermediate selection. Earlier versions seemed to go with start in 2nd and go to 3rd, while later models started in 2nd and stayed in 2nd. The feature, if I recall correctly, wasn't emphasized for lower traction situations, but more for urban driving where adjustments to speed were done in motion, not requiring the added wear and tear and fuel usage of another shift once the vehicle was moving.

That's just memory and I'm sure that it was used in the lower traction capacity by the more savvy drivers of the day.


The shift quadrant on his Rambler is P R N D2 D1 L. The first detent after neutral is D2 which starts in 2nd and shifts to 3rd - that is where the confusion comes in as it is not the normal "drive" range lile we are used to today. The second position after neutral is D1 which starts in 1st and shifts to 2nd and 3rd. That is the "normal" range to use. It is "backwards" from most other transmissions. The last position is L which starts in first and stays there. Ford used the same quadrant at the time - their Cruiseomatic transmissions were related to the Borg Warner units (at least in some design details). Here is a link to a Ford manual explaining that D1 is the normal range to use, not D2:

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/Ford/1960/pages/60 ford_page 35_jpg.htm

This was a non-intuitive design and I am not sure why Borg Warner and Ford used it. In 1967 AMC and Ford changed the valve bodies on these transmissions to make the "normal" drive range be the first detent after neutral to match GM and Chrysler. Then the quadrant read "P R N D 2 1" like everyone else.

 

[mechjames]

It's just that I have reason to believe it isn't a numbers matching car. The vin number for our emissions test shows it as a 5.5 Litre, which could have originally been the 327 or 343.

It's more likely though that the previous owner bought it from an AMC car collector that lives pretty close to me, and that he had lost the papers for the car, but had the title from another car in his backyard. I can't see why someone would go from a 327 to an inline 6. It's just what i've been reading on the internet my first letter of the VIN is Z, and that is an eight cylinder. But I could be wrong, I haven't found the service manual yet.

I'm going to be having a little bit of work time on this car after the long weekend, might even get some good ol HDEO Rotella in there.

 

[Gary Allan]

More

I seem to recall some oddball Pontiac setup where (thinking)

It went something like P-D-2-1-R (I don't recall where "N" was) ..but I'm not sure if it was a 3 forward range select. It may have been P-N-D-L-R. The only time I saw it I recall thinking it was a very unwise arrangement.

60's Cadillac's (the ones that I recall) had two dots with DRIVE between them and "L". It kinda gave me a "take your pick" impression.

 

[XS650]

If that was the old 4-speed Hydramatic, one D was 1-3 and the other was 1-4. On some cars there was an S and a D with S being the 1-3. 4 was direct, not an overdive.

On the Ford-O-Matics in 1957, the only D was 2-3 and 1st was normally only manually selected. On the 1957 and I think also 1955,56 there was little know feature where you got first gear if you floored it in D below about 25 mph. It was the same circuit that caused a kickdown to 2nd for highway passing.

 

[demarpaint]

I wish I could remember I could swear it was PRNDL? IIRC is was a 3 speed AT, very basic, but it was a 1962.

 

[labman]

My dad had several Ramblers and I don't remember how theirs worked. The PRNDL was common then, but I think GM put R at the right. What I remember was the push buttons in his 59. The N button doubled as a start button. By the time he traded it on a 62, I had my own car and avoided driving his as much as I could.

 

[Gary Allan]

Like I said, it gives you that "take your pick" impression

 

[dnastrau]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Like I said, it gives you that "take your pick" impression

Ah yes - a mid '60's Cadillac! Another example that added to the confusion.

Unlike the Rambler and Ford, this Turbo Hydramatic equipped Cadillac, which shows two "Drive" ranges, is actually the standard "P R N D 2 1" in disguise. The first drive position in this car is the "normal" Drive position - like a new car. The second Drive position starts in first, shifts to second and stays in second - just like the "2" position on a new car. Cadillac kept this shift quadrant marking up into the early 1980s on all of their three speed Turbo Hydramatic models.

I guess the bottom line is, use the drive position in your older three speed automatic car that allows it to shift twice.