1950 vs 2013
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A manager in a Honda dealership found the exact first car he ever owned a 76 Honda Civic Wagon. He put it in the shop for a tune up. The certified Honda mechanic had a problem. He set the timing right on the mark. Then he adjusted the points and the timing changed. He was completely stumped. He read the manual to find out what ignition points were and how to adjust the dwell but could not understand what was happening. The older parts manager had to go out into the shop and explain what was going on and how to fix the problem. Different times, different skills.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Would the men of 1950 be more mechanically savvy in fixing the family cars of 1950's then the men of 2013 . Examples: engine rebuilding, tuneups, transmissions, radiator replacements, fenders, bumpers, etc.
The family cars of the 'fifties required a lot more fixing than those of today and they were pretty simple by current standards.
The average car of the past thirty years will could reach an easy 150K with no more than quick oil change outlet maintenance and probably one brake job and a couple of sets of tires.
No bulky ignition points to service and replace anymore, no carbs requiring adjustment and rebuilding, and with modern platinum plugs, plug replacement is usually more a matter of removing them while they'll still come out than real need.
Modern oils combined with modern engine management systems have also played a role in increasing engine life, so there's typically no need to do a field overhaul of an engine.
Cars are far more complicated now than then, but they also need much less attention on a regular basis to run reliably.
If the impecunious or the curious needed to learn the skills of yesteryear, they would.
Modern cars have made those skills largely irrelevant.
My take is that men of today have far less need than did the men of then to acquire mechanical skills to keep their ride to work running than was the case sixty years ago.
Would the men of 1950 be more mechanically savvy in fixing the family cars of 1950's then the men of 2013 . Examples: engine rebuilding, tuneups, transmissions, radiator replacements, fenders, bumpers, etc.
The family cars of the 'fifties required a lot more fixing than those of today and they were pretty simple by current standards.
The average car of the past thirty years will could reach an easy 150K with no more than quick oil change outlet maintenance and probably one brake job and a couple of sets of tires.
No bulky ignition points to service and replace anymore, no carbs requiring adjustment and rebuilding, and with modern platinum plugs, plug replacement is usually more a matter of removing them while they'll still come out than real need.
Modern oils combined with modern engine management systems have also played a role in increasing engine life, so there's typically no need to do a field overhaul of an engine.
Cars are far more complicated now than then, but they also need much less attention on a regular basis to run reliably.
If the impecunious or the curious needed to learn the skills of yesteryear, they would.
Modern cars have made those skills largely irrelevant.
My take is that men of today have far less need than did the men of then to acquire mechanical skills to keep their ride to work running than was the case sixty years ago.
50's guy had to have more mechanical aptitude.
2013 "tech" has to be more ECU/electrical knowledge.
Both are great in their own space and time. In NO way am I slamming either era wrench.
2013 "tech" has to be more ECU/electrical knowledge.
Both are great in their own space and time. In NO way am I slamming either era wrench.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A manager in a Honda dealership found the exact first car he ever owned a 76 Honda Civic Wagon. He put it in the shop for a tune up. The certified Honda mechanic had a problem. He set the timing right on the mark. Then he adjusted the points and the timing changed. He was completely stumped. He read the manual to find out what ignition points were and how to adjust the dwell but could not understand what was happening. The older parts manager had to go out into the shop and explain what was going on and how to fix the problem. Different times, different skills.
Honda still used points in 1976?!?! Wow. Just...wow.
A manager in a Honda dealership found the exact first car he ever owned a 76 Honda Civic Wagon. He put it in the shop for a tune up. The certified Honda mechanic had a problem. He set the timing right on the mark. Then he adjusted the points and the timing changed. He was completely stumped. He read the manual to find out what ignition points were and how to adjust the dwell but could not understand what was happening. The older parts manager had to go out into the shop and explain what was going on and how to fix the problem. Different times, different skills.
Honda still used points in 1976?!?! Wow. Just...wow.
Jarlaxle, points-style ignition has been used up until fairly recently and you still run into distributor caps on little Civics up to around 2001 I believe.
I was very surprised by that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVv_57uSrUQ
I was very surprised by that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVv_57uSrUQ
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A manager in a Honda dealership found the exact first car he ever owned a 76 Honda Civic Wagon. He put it in the shop for a tune up. The certified Honda mechanic had a problem. He set the timing right on the mark. Then he adjusted the points and the timing changed. He was completely stumped. He read the manual to find out what ignition points were and how to adjust the dwell but could not understand what was happening. The older parts manager had to go out into the shop and explain what was going on and how to fix the problem. Different times, different skills.
Honda still used points in 1976?!?! Wow. Just...wow.
That was about the time that AMC switched to that horrible Prestolite design. (they later switched to the good ol' Blue Grommet Motorcraft Duraspark)
GM had just switched over to HEI the year before.
Ford's Duraspark was only about 2 years old.
Chrysler's Electronic Spark control was only about 3 years old.
To be fair, Harley Davidson was the only American manufacturer still using points in 1976. But the other domestic manufacturers had just switched in 1976. I think by 1980, all Honda motorcycles had switched to CDI ignitions and I think all Honda cars had switched to electronic ignitions by 1978.
Honda used some of the same contact breaker points that Isuzu and Mitsubishi used. I remember selling them. Isuzu and Mitsubishi held onto points until the early '80s. You need points for your 1980 Chevrolet LUV? I got 'em but I do not have them in genuine AC Delco.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A manager in a Honda dealership found the exact first car he ever owned a 76 Honda Civic Wagon. He put it in the shop for a tune up. The certified Honda mechanic had a problem. He set the timing right on the mark. Then he adjusted the points and the timing changed. He was completely stumped. He read the manual to find out what ignition points were and how to adjust the dwell but could not understand what was happening. The older parts manager had to go out into the shop and explain what was going on and how to fix the problem. Different times, different skills.
Honda still used points in 1976?!?! Wow. Just...wow.
That was about the time that AMC switched to that horrible Prestolite design. (they later switched to the good ol' Blue Grommet Motorcraft Duraspark)
GM had just switched over to HEI the year before.
Ford's Duraspark was only about 2 years old.
Chrysler's Electronic Spark control was only about 3 years old.
To be fair, Harley Davidson was the only American manufacturer still using points in 1976. But the other domestic manufacturers had just switched in 1976. I think by 1980, all Honda motorcycles had switched to CDI ignitions and I think all Honda cars had switched to electronic ignitions by 1978.
Honda used some of the same contact breaker points that Isuzu and Mitsubishi used. I remember selling them. Isuzu and Mitsubishi held onto points until the early '80s. You need points for your 1980 Chevrolet LUV? I got 'em but I do not have them in genuine AC Delco.
The problem with modern cars is although they POSSIBLY could last without a lot of maintenance it isn't as cut and dry and you might think..... The worst issue with modern cars is that the complexity of electronics and amount of "stuff" packed into the car is so vast that often times even a trained, skilled "technician" will often times NOT be able to find the root cause of an issue without a LOT of time involved. Frankly the complexity has become ridiculous, and it has also priced cars so high that affording them on a typical wage that is DECREASING is becoming more and more of an issue.
I think the typical 50s man had something so important that has been lost....
good deductive, reasoning, and related skills. It doesn't matter if it is electronic OR mechanical, you NEED to have these skills.
Actually I find the abilities I mentioned above to be increasingly RARE even among well educated types.
I think the typical 50s man had something so important that has been lost....
good deductive, reasoning, and related skills. It doesn't matter if it is electronic OR mechanical, you NEED to have these skills.
Actually I find the abilities I mentioned above to be increasingly RARE even among well educated types.
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: jcwit
My dad talked of replacing rod or main bearings in a model (?) Ford along side the road.
Now I'd like to see the avg. guy do the same in a like engine today.
Most today can't even sharpen their own lawn mower blade.
Good thing most cars of today would never NEED to have rod bearings changed out on the side of the road.
While this is true, again the average man today likely could not do it even on the Model (?) Ford my dad had. That is the crux of the matter.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
My dad talked of replacing rod or main bearings in a model (?) Ford along side the road.
Now I'd like to see the avg. guy do the same in a like engine today.
Most today can't even sharpen their own lawn mower blade.
Good thing most cars of today would never NEED to have rod bearings changed out on the side of the road.
While this is true, again the average man today likely could not do it even on the Model (?) Ford my dad had. That is the crux of the matter.
Modern cars are built better and don't break like they used to.
Turning over 100k used to be a big deal, the odometers didn't even count that high.
Turning over 100k used to be a big deal, the odometers didn't even count that high.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Modern cars are built better and don't break like they used to.
Turning over 100k used to be a big deal, the odometers didn't even count that high.
Really? All of mine did, starting with a 1950 Studebaker Champ.
Modern cars are built better and don't break like they used to.
Turning over 100k used to be a big deal, the odometers didn't even count that high.
Really? All of mine did, starting with a 1950 Studebaker Champ.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: jcwit
My dad talked of replacing rod or main bearings in a model (?) Ford along side the road.
Now I'd like to see the avg. guy do the same in a like engine today.
Most today can't even sharpen their own lawn mower blade.
Good thing most cars of today would never NEED to have rod bearings changed out on the side of the road.
While this is true, again the average man today likely could not do it even on the Model (?) Ford my dad had. That is the crux of the matter.
Te modern man couldn't fix a 1950s Ford because he's never had to. Could a 1950s man set up a secure wireless hotspot?
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: jcwit
My dad talked of replacing rod or main bearings in a model (?) Ford along side the road.
Now I'd like to see the avg. guy do the same in a like engine today.
Most today can't even sharpen their own lawn mower blade.
Good thing most cars of today would never NEED to have rod bearings changed out on the side of the road.
While this is true, again the average man today likely could not do it even on the Model (?) Ford my dad had. That is the crux of the matter.
Te modern man couldn't fix a 1950s Ford because he's never had to. Could a 1950s man set up a secure wireless hotspot?
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Modern cars are built better and don't break like they used to.
Turning over 100k used to be a big deal, the odometers didn't even count that high.
Really? All of mine did, starting with a 1950 Studebaker Champ.
Almost every car I have seen built before the mid-late 80's had an odometer that would go to 99,999.9 and then it would "rollover".
I have never been in a 1950 Studebaker Champ (I didn't even know that was a car) so I can't comment on that particular model.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Modern cars are built better and don't break like they used to.
Turning over 100k used to be a big deal, the odometers didn't even count that high.
Really? All of mine did, starting with a 1950 Studebaker Champ.
Almost every car I have seen built before the mid-late 80's had an odometer that would go to 99,999.9 and then it would "rollover".
I have never been in a 1950 Studebaker Champ (I didn't even know that was a car) so I can't comment on that particular model.
Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: jcwit
My dad talked of replacing rod or main bearings in a model (?) Ford along side the road.
Now I'd like to see the avg. guy do the same in a like engine today.
Most today can't even sharpen their own lawn mower blade.
Good thing most cars of today would never NEED to have rod bearings changed out on the side of the road.
While this is true, again the average man today likely could not do it even on the Model (?) Ford my dad had. That is the crux of the matter.
Te modern man couldn't fix a 1950s Ford because he's never had to. Could a 1950s man set up a secure wireless hotspot?
To answer your question, he never had to.
But this is really now the question, the question is the ability and know how to get the feat accomplished.
Many of our graduates today can't even read, but they sure know how to play electronic games. Don't believe it? Check out the drop out rate of high school kids.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: jcwit
My dad talked of replacing rod or main bearings in a model (?) Ford along side the road.
Now I'd like to see the avg. guy do the same in a like engine today.
Most today can't even sharpen their own lawn mower blade.
Good thing most cars of today would never NEED to have rod bearings changed out on the side of the road.
While this is true, again the average man today likely could not do it even on the Model (?) Ford my dad had. That is the crux of the matter.
Te modern man couldn't fix a 1950s Ford because he's never had to. Could a 1950s man set up a secure wireless hotspot?
To answer your question, he never had to.
But this is really now the question, the question is the ability and know how to get the feat accomplished.
Many of our graduates today can't even read, but they sure know how to play electronic games. Don't believe it? Check out the drop out rate of high school kids.
I know my father (age 70) is "naturally" better at working on cars than me (age 36). He has been involved in mechanical stuff all his life. Cars, airplanes (in the AF) and older computers. I have the advantage of youtube which helps a lot. Yes, my dad can use youtube but I don't think he ever will. For whatever reason, my mechanical experiences have been much more limited.
One learns to do what needs to be done...or pays someone to do it for them.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Falken
A man who can hang off the side of a ship and weld all day was probably a lot less nervous around a ratchet than someone who studies high math.
Not necessarily true.
Some of the smartest folks I know do their own wrenching, at least as far as time allows...
And I think that the time dynamic is as much a part of it as anything. Computer diagnosis is one thing, but for the other parts, time is a big player.
A man who can hang off the side of a ship and weld all day was probably a lot less nervous around a ratchet than someone who studies high math.
Not necessarily true.
Some of the smartest folks I know do their own wrenching, at least as far as time allows...
And I think that the time dynamic is as much a part of it as anything. Computer diagnosis is one thing, but for the other parts, time is a big player.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Many of our graduates today can't even read, but they sure know how to play electronic games. Don't believe it? Check out the drop out rate of high school kids.
The dropout rate is at historic lows. More kids today graduate high school in four years than at any time since 1970.
The dropout rate (3.4%) has been declining steadily for at least 42 years.
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/college_b...82_percent.html
Calculated by decade, the dropout rate in 1960 was quadruple what it was in 2010.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html
No matter what you think or feel kids today are far better educated than they have ever been.
Many of our graduates today can't even read, but they sure know how to play electronic games. Don't believe it? Check out the drop out rate of high school kids.
The dropout rate is at historic lows. More kids today graduate high school in four years than at any time since 1970.
The dropout rate (3.4%) has been declining steadily for at least 42 years.
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/college_b...82_percent.html
Calculated by decade, the dropout rate in 1960 was quadruple what it was in 2010.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html
No matter what you think or feel kids today are far better educated than they have ever been.
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Originally Posted By: AlienBug
No matter what you think or feel kids today are far better educated than they have ever been.
Or are they....
If you look at the content of that education and the difficulty involved folks from years ago were in fact much better educated because the curriculum was much more involved and demanding in many ways. Years ago it wasn't just about rote learning either the schools stressed other critical skills that contributed to a
"well educated" individual.
My own personal experience when dealing with different generations is that more recent grads from HS or even college have LESS ability or desire to use independent, and critical thinking skills which in the past were very strongly stressed even in ordinary public schools. This is NOT the case today.
Problem solving is one of THE most important skills you need to know. I don't believe the modern schools are doing a good job of inculcating this aspect into the youth today.
Before I get slammed for making that observation let me say that I am generalizing and I have come across some younger folks that have all those skills, but just not that many as you would have found say 25 years ago or more.
No matter what you think or feel kids today are far better educated than they have ever been.
Or are they....
If you look at the content of that education and the difficulty involved folks from years ago were in fact much better educated because the curriculum was much more involved and demanding in many ways. Years ago it wasn't just about rote learning either the schools stressed other critical skills that contributed to a
"well educated" individual.
My own personal experience when dealing with different generations is that more recent grads from HS or even college have LESS ability or desire to use independent, and critical thinking skills which in the past were very strongly stressed even in ordinary public schools. This is NOT the case today.
Problem solving is one of THE most important skills you need to know. I don't believe the modern schools are doing a good job of inculcating this aspect into the youth today.
Before I get slammed for making that observation let me say that I am generalizing and I have come across some younger folks that have all those skills, but just not that many as you would have found say 25 years ago or more.
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