12% are paying $1,000+ a month for car loans ...

Spent 40 years on my life on the South Shore of Nasssu County. Small world and you know what the expenses are.
I was in the Bellmore, Wantagh. Seaford, Massspequa area.
I would not have traded anything in the world growing up there and even my young adult life.
It was great and so was boating on the great South Bay between Jones Inlet and Fire Island Inlet and at times fishing outside of New York Harbor where the Ambrose light/navigation for the huge ships, Which I think I’ve read was now past it’s time and just demolished about a decade ago, I think it was in about 90 feet of water but I can’t remember and also off the New Jersey Highlands.
Back then we used the compass, no GPS and no radio beacon sometimes in boats as small as 18 feet LOL and no land in sight.
I wouldn’t trade those times for anything.
But that was then and now going back two decades, the congestion, urbanization and overall quality of life was not for me and the best decision we made was to move south.

I had a family member with a waterfront home on the bay his taxes were over 18,000 a year plus calculate around $4000 a year in insurance.

Nothing is for everybody though, left behind a lot of lifelong friends going all the way back to elementary school, we still talk sometimes and still miss them at times.

I’m sure you remember the whole Shoreham of nuclear power plant debacle which led at the time to some of the highest electric rates because of building a $5 billion plant and taking it out of commission after low power testing before commercially producing power for the residents.

Oh I got off topic sorry about that. But if you know the area you also know those people in those areas I mention, buy lots of toys and lots of expensive things but I can tell you right now even though their incomes are high the quality of life isn’t any higher and most of those toys I supported by second mortgages and taxes/expenses can suck the life out of some.
We have a lot in common. I fished the Ambrose Channel, and saw the tower up close. I fished Reynolds Channel etc, and made several trips out of Debs inlet to fish wrecks offshore. Also long before GPS existed. Lets just say a lot has changed. Shoreham, yep that too. Regarding the toys, expenses etc. I follow a very simple rule, if I can't afford it I don't buy it. It kept me out of trouble and I have excellent credit as a result.
 
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Things are so bad - that the Yukon Denali is the new Escalade around here 😷
(our former ALL GM dealership has dropped Cadillac) …
In fact - my airport limo’s are now Suburban - moved off Escalade too …
They may have dropped Cadillac because the ownership didn't want to do the EV thing. That's was GM's stipulation to keep Cadillac if I understand things correctly.
 
They may have dropped Cadillac because the ownership didn't want to do the EV thing. That's was GM's stipulation to keep Cadillac if I understand things correctly.
Yes - that crossed my mind - it’s rare to see an EV here - but in Houston (1 hour) there are decent numbers …
 
We have a lot in common. I fished the Ambrose Channel, and saw the tower up close. I fished Reynolds Channel etc, and made several trips out of Debs inlet to fish wrecks offshore. Also long before GPS existed. Lets just say a lot has changed. Shoreham, yep that too. Regarding the toys, expenses etc. I follow a very simple rule, if I can't afford it I don't buy it. It kept me out of trouble and I have excellent credit as a result.
No way!
How cool. I used to love the the tower, sticking up out off the ocean like a small oil platform with a ladder going to the top.
It was almost a failsafe place to catch bluefish. We would literally circle the tower and cast right next to the pilings with large Crocodile lures let it sink down and reel it up lightening quick, stop for a split second and then fast against and bam ... you would get anything from a 5 to 10, 12 pound blue on lighter (but not light) gear. Sometimes we would also see them right on the LCD depth finder. You could literally be on one side of the tower and not get anything, then go around to the other and BAM. I loved fishing with spinning rods>

Equal if not most other times we also trolled the areas mentioned off the Highlands. I remember one time when I learned real quick what a tug boat with a brightly lit white cross meant. It meant it was towing a barge about a 1/4 mile back. I'll never forget seeing the cable however thick it was cutting through the waves. It took a second to realize what was going on when I changed course quickly. I think they were dumping silt (or garbage from NY harbor, all I remember is the bluefish were going nuts in the silt.
Another place was the Cholera Banks for trolling.

Before we went out there and many times otherwise I would get the tower waves heights and sea conditions.
We used to Bluefish out there a lot, some big fish. I never much cared for the taste of them though and would sell them to a local fish market AND depending on the year sometimes would have a full size garbage pail of them, big ones, we always iced them down once inside the inlet we would back our boat up to the Jones Beach fishing piers close enough to throw them all up on the pier for the people fishing there.
That was a great feeling they really appreciated it. We never would keep fish and let them go to waste and we did this quite often for the people on the piers.

Of course much of our fishing was inside the inlet, Fluke fishing was great, right inside the inlet near the Short Beach Coast Guard Station, Flounder in the spring in the bays of Massapequa and we tried many times fishing live eels tied up to the parkway bridges in the middle of the night, caught some interesting things but never really got the striper thing down.
Reynolds channel was soooo well known in the fishing reports, being we were more in the Seaford area where we kept our boat we fished the channels closer there and around the state channel by Zach Bay which was our daytime partying place and many nights. *LOL*
I think when I was younger my dad took us to Reynolds and I still fished their once in a while just cant remember the details.

Of course we knew Valley Stream, how could you not? it was always a stop on the LIRR when we were heading into the city.
I also had some limited real estate transactions there from people moving out my way. But the biggest 20s memory was going to the Valley Stream Multiplex to see the movie Arthur, we were partying before that and well, I think I fell asleep during the movie and remember the song playing at the end, its embedded in my brain. *LOL*

Yes, excellent credit lowers costs for all things dramatically most notably insurance of all kinds. The savings over lifetime is amazing, I never heard anyone who pays less than me for insurance. Dont get me wrong I am not the only one of course. People dont realize how important a FICO score is.

Your words things arent the same, no, but boy when I type this stuff I do miss those times. I no longer miss NY though, the mom and pop marinas are LONG GONE. The memories priceless.
Most areas turned into condos on the water, or homes, a few big ones left that are so expensive it ruins the whole experience, if even they exist anymore, property worth so much money. My father had me fishing my whole life and when I became a young adult at the age of 18 or so I bought my first boat by myself with my own money from working. It was then I could actually keep it in the water for the summer at a mom and pop marina in Seaford at a reasonable cost. Gosh I loved that boat, was so proud of it.
Later on we got lucky and got the lottery at Wantagh park marina which is Nassau County owned and an incredible deal.
Yeah, things are changed.

and ... full disclosure, my life at a pretty early age got what some might consider lucky, ended up in a small business partnership making more money than I ever thought possible back then, not a crazy lot, but I was living like no tomorrow, enough to qualify for a couple boat loans along the way, so maybe way bigger than I should have bought, I always paid my debts and on time, but I soon realized the true cost of that debt when with some business purchases and amortization sheets I saw at an early age what this debt actually does cost.
The business purchases were perfect (and lucky and very smart) but the stupidity of buying boats the size I did at my age was stupid before buying a home.
The business was always good but not like it used to be decades back, freaking regulations are incredible to keep up with, taxes and fees crushing small businesses is incredible, people never really will understand that and understand the fact that huge corporations love it in a way, it crushed small business because they dont have the unlimited resources like a corporation to handle regulations this gets rid of small business competition because they cant afford to stay in business.
Im out of that business now but its still there, sold my partnership a long time ago and its still there but I dont think anything like the old days.

So when I see the cost of this debt $1000 car loans? Really? gosh, cars are the worst thing to have a loan on, I do know for some its a nothing but I bet the vast majority have no clue what the true cost of that debt is and today its all around us, we just cant say no, been conditioned to if you can afford the payment its affordable but its not affordable because you cant buy it unless you ask someone to lend you the money and boy when you do, most have no clue to the true cost.
 
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No way!
How cool. I used to love the the tower, sticking up out off the ocean like a small oil platform with a ladder going to the top.
It was almost a failsafe place to catch bluefish. We would literally circle the tower and cast right next to the pilings with large Crocodile lures let it sink down and reel it up lightening quick, stop for a split second and then fast against and bam ... you would get anything from a 5 to 10, 12 pound blue on lighter (but not light) gear. Sometimes we would also see them right on the LCD depth finder. You could literally be on one side of the tower and not get anything, then go around to the other and BAM. I loved fishing with spinning rods>

Equal if not most other times we also trolled the areas mentioned off the Highlands. I remember one time when I learned real quick what a tug boat with a brightly lit white cross meant. It meant it was towing a barge about a 1/4 mile back. I'll never forget seeing the cable however thick it was cutting through the waves. It took a second to realize what was going on when I changed course quickly. I think they were dumping silt (or garbage from NY harbor, all I remember is the bluefish were going nuts in the silt.
Another place was the Cholera Banks for trolling.

Before we went out there and many times otherwise I would get the tower waves heights and sea conditions.
We used to Bluefish out there a lot, some big fish. I never much cared for the taste of them though and would sell them to a local fish market AND depending on the year sometimes would have a full size garbage pail of them, big ones, we always iced them down once inside the inlet we would back our boat up to the Jones Beach fishing piers close enough to throw them all up on the pier for the people fishing there.
That was a great feeling they really appreciated it. We never would keep fish and let them go to waste and we did this quite often for the people on the piers.

Of course much of our fishing was inside the inlet, Fluke fishing was great, right inside the inlet near the Short Beach Coast Guard Station, Flounder in the spring in the bays of Massapequa and we tried many times fishing live eels tied up to the parkway bridges in the middle of the night, caught some interesting things but never really got the striper thing down.
Reynolds channel was soooo well known in the fishing reports, being we were more in the Seaford area where we kept our boat we fished the channels closer there and around the state channel by Zach Bay which was our daytime partying place and many nights. *LOL*
I think when I was younger my dad took us to Reynolds and I still fished their once in a while just cant remember the details.

Of course we knew Valley Stream, how could you not? it was always a stop on the LIRR when we were heading into the city.
I also had some limited real estate transactions there from people moving out my way. But the biggest 20s memory was going to the Valley Stream Multiplex to see the movie Arthur, we were partying before that and well, I think I fell asleep during the movie and remember the song playing at the end, its embedded in my brain. *LOL*

Yes, excellent credit lowers costs for all things dramatically most notably insurance of all kinds. The savings over lifetime is amazing, I never heard anyone who pays less than me for insurance. Dont get me wrong I am not the only one of course. People dont realize how important a FICO score is.

Your words things arent the same, no, but boy when I type this stuff I do miss those times. I no longer miss NY though, the mom and pop marinas are LONG GONE. The memories priceless.
Most areas turned into condos on the water, or homes, a few big ones left that are so expensive it ruins the whole experience, if even they exist anymore, property worth so much money. My father had me fishing my whole life and when I became a young adult at the age of 18 or so I bought my first boat by myself with my own money from working. It was then I could actually keep it in the water for the summer at a mom and pop marina in Seaford at a reasonable cost. Gosh I loved that boat, was so proud of it.
Later on we got lucky and got the lottery at Wantagh park marina which is Nassau County owned and an incredible deal.
Yeah, things are changed.

and ... full disclosure, my life at a pretty early age got what some might consider lucky, ended up in a small business partnership making more money than I ever thought possible back then, not a crazy lot, but I was living like no tomorrow, enough to qualify for a couple boat loans along the way, so maybe way bigger than I should have bought, I always paid my debts and on time, but I soon realized the true cost of that debt when with some business purchases and amortization sheets I saw at an early age what this debt actually does cost.
The business purchases were perfect (and lucky and very smart) but the stupidity of buying boats the size I did at my age was stupid before buying a home.
The business was always good but not like it used to be decades back, freaking regulations are incredible to keep up with, taxes and fees crushing small businesses is incredible, people never really will understand that and understand the fact that huge corporations love it in a way, it crushed small business because they dont have the unlimited resources like a corporation to handle regulations this gets rid of small business competition because they cant afford to stay in business.
Im out of that business now but its still there, sold my partnership a long time ago and its still there but I dont think anything like the old days.

So when I see the cost of this debt $1000 car loans? Really? gosh, cars are the worst thing to have a loan on, I do know for some its a nothing but I bet the vast majority have no clue what the true cost of that debt is and today its all around us, we just cant say no, been conditioned to if you can afford the payment its affordable but its not affordable because you cant buy it unless you ask someone to lend you the money and boy when you do, most have no clue to the true cost.
I'm going to switch over to PM, not to totally hi-jack this thread.
 
I gave some very specific examples from the 80's vs now. We could go back to the horse and buggy if you want, but that's going to be a bit of an unnecessary detour. How about working with the examples I provided?

Sure, if we go back far enough. Again, let's deal with the examples as I've given them instead of trying to build a strawman about "back in the day we walked in 20 feet of snow, uphill both ways, then came home, hand-cranked a tractor and liked it because that's the way things were. Then we threw a cow on our backs, took it into the kitchen, milked it on the table, and drank milk straight from the udder. Then we went and shovelled 14 tons of coal to heat the shack for the night."

And those things are optional today (lane departure and navigation). Again, I provided a couple of very specific examples, let's look at the RAM 2500 one, with crank windows, manual locks, manual seats, no navigation...etc. It's more than double the inflation-adjusted price for its mid-80's equivalent.

I again, gave a very specific example of the house I grew up in that was purchased for ~$60K and is now worth 800K. My sister owns a bungalow similar to what you are describing, it's worth $550K and she paid $425K for it. So no, housing is not "much the same". Have you actually looked at the prices of houses in many markets lately, for the type of house you are describing?

That sounds like condescending judgement rather than empirical data. While consumerism is definitely a problem, both housing and transportation have become significantly more expensive, and well beyond the inflationary effect.

I think we can both agree that transportation and lodging are both "needs". Yes, Walmart, Amazon...etc all cater to consumerism (the "want") but that doesn't mean there isn't a separate and very valid discussion to be had about the examples I've provided on both housing and transport.

Adjusted for inflation, that 1973 Maverick is $17,135.00. Slightly more expensive than a brand new 2022 KIA RIO. And the KIA RIO has all sorts of mandated safety features, fuel injection, TPMS...etc. Again, it's not those things driving up the price of vehicles.

Consumer buying power has changed, particularly in regards to housing and transportation. Electricity is also going up, food prices have gone up. Life has become more expensive and all of this at a rate that wage growth has not matched.

That's a separate discussion from poor consumer decisions made regarding debt, financing things they don't need and buying the latest trinket every other week.

I'd appreciate it if we could have a productive discussion on those things, but if this is going to devolve into more whataboutisms, I'm going to cut my losses.
Some of the stuff you write is really funny but so true. When I read it it takes back to 50's and 60's and I get it.
 
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