100 mpg car in the 70's. what happened with this?

Spazdog · Mar 16, 2012

Originally Posted By: eljefino

Smokey Yunick ? had a Fiero that ran on super lean fuel vapors by super heating the intake manifold.

Lot's of cars had heater grids under the carburetor in the '80s. The irony is that they probably consumed as much energy to heat the grid as much as they saved with any additional fuel vaporization.

Shannow · Mar 16, 2012

Smokey's hot vapor cycle used all of the heat in the coolant and exhaust to heat the fuel mixture to a vapour, and turbos to get it's volume back down...look for the patents online, they are interesting reading. (Henry Yunick will bring them up for you).

I doubt that in spite of it's economy, it would meet emissions.

One of my cars I spent ages arguing with the registration people that although my car produced more "parts per million" of NOx, it produces 50% less "million parts", by virtue of using way less fuel. That was 22 years ago, no way would I get through now.

Bennet ran into trouble as the standard used CO2 to "infer" CO...he had excess air, and thus less CO2, and therefore failed registration.

Spazdog · Mar 16, 2012

using waste heat? good idea.
using electricity? bad idea.

A lot of those grids ended up in the trash melted or damaged anyway.

IIRC, the 18:1 CVCC engines had significantly less emissions in every category except NOx

flacoman · Mar 16, 2012

This is where the ease of ignition of hydrogen can actually be of benefit...NASA did some testing with adding hydrogen and was able to lean aircraft engines out a fair bit. Let me see if the report server will point the way ... Hydrogen enrichment for ultra lean operation

Here's a similar setup with a 350 Chevy More hydrogen fun

urrlord · Mar 17, 2012

Some of the carbs that were said to produce hi mileage DID work back then,but will not work with modern gas formulation.

There was also a guy in North Carolina in the late 70's early 80's who put a marine diesel engine in a Mercury Capri 5 speed and ran it on an early version of bio-diesel.It got 75+ mpg.He got locked up by the feds for driving on public roads with untaxed fuel.In a bit of irony the city he was in now runs their bus fleet on bio-diesel.I read on a long article about him in a mens magazine.I think he was a race car builder/designer/engineer.

I honestly believe there are items out there that have been suppressed that would lessen our dependance on our present fuels.
I also think there are some processes out there which deliver higher mpg out of vehicles,but they require more tinkering and fine tuning than the average driver wants to get into .
MY 2 cents.

Jarlaxle · Mar 17, 2012

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Just an FYI, My Lycoming IO-360 powered Cessna 177RG "Cardinal" has controllable mixture. It also has huge pistons, air cooling and low RPM. These are all factors that result in stunning BSFC numbers. Better even, than a Prius. And, my engine was designed in the 1930's, updated over the years and manufactured in 1970.

I regularly "lean it out" in cruise flight, using proper instrumentation. Without getting into specifics, my Air/Fuel ratio in cruise is near 17 to 1. The result is significantly better range! (MPG's)

Yet, the EPA won't allow any automotive engines to operate in this mode. Which would clearly lead to better highway MPG's.

And also to high emissions...not to mention burned pistons if you're not careful!

Jarlaxle · Mar 17, 2012

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: eljefino

Smokey Yunick ? had a Fiero that ran on super lean fuel vapors by super heating the intake manifold.

Lot's of cars had heater grids under the carburetor in the '80s. The irony is that they probably consumed as much energy to heat the grid as much as they saved with any additional fuel vaporization.

They were for cold-start performance (choke comes off faster), preventing carb icing, and emissions, not milerage.

Al · Mar 17, 2012

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

They were for cold-start performance (choke comes off faster), preventing carb icing, and emissions, not milerage.

Exactly..My dad had an 82 Phoenix and when the heater filed it ran like [censored].

flacoman · Mar 17, 2012

urrlord said:
Some of the carbs that were said to produce hi mileage DID work back then,but will not work with modern gas formulation.

There was also a guy in North Carolina in the late 70's early 80's who put a marine diesel engine in a Mercury Capri 5 speed and ran it on an early version of bio-diesel.It got 75+ mpg.He got locked up by the feds for driving on public roads with untaxed fuel.In a bit of irony the city he was in now runs their bus fleet on bio-diesel.I read on a long article about him in a mens magazine.I think he was a race car builder/designer/engineer.

Ralph Moody (of Holman & Moody)

carwreck · Mar 17, 2012

Appanenty the oil companies must have of done a lousy job of hiding this 100mph carburator, since the US patent can be viewed online for any one to copy.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4177779.pdf

Note: If you read his entire patent, and cross check it with other patents listed, you will find that patent really looks to be copy of pieces of bunch of other patents, and some items in the other patents were used on cars for emsssions equipment.

Basically, the patent looks like a "Rube Goldberg" invention:

1. Move the throttle body linkage from carburator to inside the top of gas tank.
2. Replace fuel line with pipe from top of gas tank to engine.
3. Run heater hose from radiator to bottom of gas tank.
4. Hot antifreeze from radiator heats the gas tank, causing the gas to convert to gas vapor, gas vapor goes from top of gas tank to engine, engine vacuum draws in the vapor, and engine then runs on gas vapor.

Minor problem with this patent: There is no way that a 70's V8 cold engine could start with arraragement.

Spazdog · Mar 17, 2012

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: eljefino

Smokey Yunick ? had a Fiero that ran on super lean fuel vapors by super heating the intake manifold.

Lot's of cars had heater grids under the carburetor in the '80s. The irony is that they probably consumed as much energy to heat the grid as much as they saved with any additional fuel vaporization.

They were for cold-start performance (choke comes off faster), preventing carb icing, and emissions, not mileage.

They won't prevent carb icing. They were underneath the carburetor. That's what the flexible tube from the exhaust manifold to the air-cleaner was for. If you've ever driven a Toyota 20R in high humidity/low temperature conditions without the carb pre-heater tube, then you are familiar with carb icing. You stall, the heat from the engine from underneath the carburetor melts the ice in the venturi and you start up and drive again. That little grid would not have helped a bit.

If that was what they were designed for, it was a complete failure...well, it was a complete failure regardless but especially for carb icing prevention.

Garak · Mar 17, 2012

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Oil is the flavor of the century..or two. In the past it was gold or other precious items, or power of commerce or armies or even population. Until a more broad picture is processed we will continue to repeat.

And we used to have charlatans try to make gold out of lead, or claim they could do so. They've just moved onto the 100 mpg carb, now.

morris · Mar 17, 2012

traxxas just came out with a new radio control car that goes a real 100 mph, out of box

friendly_jacek · Mar 17, 2012

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
We do know that detroit big three and big oil companies bought rights to large format NiMH batteries to sabotage electric cars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries

That doesn't make sense. GM currently sells and Ford will soon sell an electric car. They both also sell hybrid cars using NiMH batteries. They aren't sabotaging the technology, they are actively producing cars with it and trying to profit from it. The problem is a skeptical public not buying the cars they are making.

OK, they sell it NOW. The battery shenanigans happened almost 20 years ago. GM's CEO used to publicly state that they would never make a hybrid car. Nat much later, they went bankrupt, so he was kind of right. The new GM is a different company as everyone knows (Government Motors).

hattaresguy · Mar 18, 2012

Cause the 100mpg car in the 70's is a story and nothing more, it never existed.

100 mpg car in the 70's. what happened with this?

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