10 yr old V8 BMW: M1 0w40 or M1 10w40 Hi Mileage?

[fdcg27]

Based upon my sample of one, I might consider the Ford Aerostar to be an example of superior engineering, for its long and reliable service in our hands.
I might also consider the e36 318i to be an example of superior engineering, based upon its trouble free reliability in my hands, even as a fairly old car.
We've had good experieince with the seven Hondas we've owned, but we've also had good experience with the four old Mercedes cars we've had.
I doubt that there is anything superior about Japanese engineering, unless one considers their superior ability to engineer all of the driver involvement out of a car.
Incidentally, many owners use ordinary API spec oils in their German cars in this country, and the engines do just fine on these oils for the driving conditions and drain intervals that are typical in the US.
Also, BMW didn't even have an oil spec until 1998.
Prior to that, BMW recommended mostly thick grades of API spec oils.

 

[FoxS]

I actually have a very balanced view about these things.

I appreciate something in almost all brands. BMW's are clearly great driver's cars, Mercedes have a distinct luxury feel to them, Audis feel like they are here and now, ready for the future, very contemporary, and I love Jaguars for their style and particular driving feel.

But I also find something to appreciate in Lexus and other Japanese vehicles. Once upon a time I had a business interest that required me to spend some more time than normal travelling on freeways. If that had been a bit more permanent, I could have seen myself going for an LS at that time.

I also posted up several links to reliability data. Of course there are exceptions but reliability data in a large scale is telling, whether it means you avoid certain Japanese models in certain years or pick German cars in particular years only.

And that's precisely how I use it, with no bias. I won't automatically buy a Lexus or other Japanese car, and if I settle on a European car I look at the risk reward carefully.

That's why when I was in the market for a particular Mercedes, I increased my original budget and went with something a year old instead of two years old because of what the reliability data told me. As it turned out, it meant I avoided having a particular engine code that turned out to be part of an acknowledged problem area after owners had spent thousands to fix the issue.

I don't see the LFA as a halo car. The original LS was an effort to learn how to exceed the current standards of luxury and what they established went into other Lexus models. What they learnt in terms of fit and finish and reliability went into other Toyotas too. Lexus have learnt a lot from the LFA just as Honda did from F1.

And lastly this bashing me about opinions and choosing facts is ridiculous.

I posted up the reliability data from the US and also from the UK that shows that the Japanese reliability is superior. Of course there are going to be exceptions. Listing them out doesn't change the statistics about reliability.

Now I'm not saying that Japanese cars are better. Better is a personal thing. But I find it strange how sensitive folks are to discussing some nuances. After all, my interpretation of better engineering is related to things such as reliabity and elegant, simple, efficient design. Yours seems to be related to the driving experience.

If I look at reliability in the overall data, if I look at how simply and elegantly things are put together, how the details all work well, how the user interface works, then the Japanese cars have superior engineering.

If you value other things more, such as the driving experience (which btw I do too), then you might say German engineering is superior.

One thing on BITOG I notice is the inability to interpret the views of others and resort to condescending statements such as someone has believed the marketing and if that is my perception it is real for them. I don't make these comments about other posters personal preferences, but its a sure way to start a personal argument, which I'm not going to get drawn into.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: Capa

Fdcg27, very interesting that you have noticed oil leaks with your German cars and their thicker oils and not with Japanese cars and their thinner oils.


Also bear in mind that Japanese cars have virtually no special oil requirements, yet they are the most reliable compared to European and domestics which are less reliable and run on the most engineered oil.

I'm convinced that their engineering is superior. It comes from an obsession with detail and quality. Just go and watch videos on the methods Lexus uses for things like the engine on the LS for example.

The engine in my Lexus was on Wards best list and 6 years after it was introduced, the other manufacturers have only just begun to match its performance, fuel economy, refinement. And it was happy to run conventional 5w30.


Oil leaks are far from a German car problem.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

2003 Toyota Corolla (newer than the OP's BMW)

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Check out the Toyota Nation board, they have a forum specifically for Corolla, by year. You can search "oil leak" for DIY's.


Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Hello,
The valve cover gasket and the Oil Control Valve for the vvt-i system are common leak points for the 1zz-fe. The OCV is located rear left passenger side.

As Trav stated, tighten both of them. Then replace the gaskets if necessary. Both are easy fixes on that engine.


COMMON leak points? On a Toyota? Impossible

 

[fdcg27]

Overkill, IIRC, you have oil leaks with your M5.
It won't just be valve cover gaskets either.
In my experience, oil leaks are far more common with BMW and Mercedes cars than they are with Hondas.
Oil leaks are more of a problem on German cars than they are on Japanese ones.
This is more of a cosmetic issue than a serious one, but let's not be disingenuous.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Overkill, IIRC, you have oil leaks with your M5.
It won't just be valve cover gaskets either.
In my experience, oil leaks are far more common with BMW and Mercedes cars than they are with Hondas.
Oil leaks are more of a problem on German cars than they are on Japanese ones.
This is more of a cosmetic issue than a serious one, but let's not be disingenuous.


I had a weeping valve cover gasket, but it self rectified

LOL!

My point was simply that leaks are not a German-only problem, I think we can agree on that

 

[fdcg27]

We can, but I've seen more oil leaks with the German cars we've owned than I have with the Japanese ones.
Glad to hear that your oil leaks took care of themselves.
That's always a nice thing, much better than having to remove the valve covers, which is probably quite a task on your car.
That does sometimes happen, especially when you bring a car into regular use that has languished unused for some time.
Was that the case with your M5?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We can, but I've seen more oil leaks with the German cars we've owned than I have with the Japanese ones.
Glad to hear that your oil leaks took care of themselves.
That's always a nice thing, much better than having to remove the valve covers, which is probably quite a task on your car.
That does sometimes happen, especially when you bring a car into regular use that has languished unused for some time.
Was that the case with your M5?


Quite likely. It had 140,000Km on it, which is only about 12K a year. I put that on it the first two months I had it, LOL!

May also have been a chemistry change from the dealer BMW (Castrol) 5w30 to M1 0w40.

And to answer your question, yes, of all of the jobs that are easy on my car, the valve cover gaskets, due to their proximity with the master cylinder and other items makes them fall outside of that category. They are a royal PITA, unlike doing one on the M54, which is a 20 minute job.

 

[Noobie]

I own 2 BMW 5 series . . . an E39 (MY2003) and an E60 (MY2010).

The E39 has been quite a challange since it was a very very very very very neglected car, on the other hand the E60 which is still like brand new . . . still have not shown any issues at all after these couple years.

I have a Toyota story for you!

Two years ago i had a friend that bought a BRAND NEW Toyota RAV4. He got the keys on September 2010 . . . on December 22 2010 we were going to a party and he had to pick up his girl . . . since he didn't know where she lived exactly he followed me with his RAV4 while i was driving my BMW . . . Now what happens is that the girl's house was on a slightly inclined street so after he picked her up, we got ready to go but when he was getting out of the street his car LOST the BRAKES . . . he ended up crossing to the opposite lane and a car T-boned his RAV4, the girl got out of this with a broken neck but he didn't suffer any injuries.

He said to me that he almost rear ended my car. (I got out of the street quickly since there was no incoming car)

Lesson here: He bought the RAV4 because of Toyota's well known "reliability".

 

[Capa]

Individual examples of Toyota having issues does not negate the fact that Lexus and Toyota are, as a whole, more reliable than BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, etc. JD Powers and Associates and Consumer Reports as well as other sources prove this year in and year out. And while we can agree that in many thing Lexus have copied their German counterparts the converse is true as well, as noted by Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, etc. For example, Lexus intense pursuit for perfection in eliminating NVH has been copied by the Germans. No one here is pretending that a Lexus drives better than a BMW (for a man at least), however, the facts are facts and Lexus are more reliable.

 

[il_signore97]

Firstly, not to totally derail this thread anymore than it already has been, my opinions for the OP is that he continue to use the Mobil 1 0W40 as it is BMW LL-01 approved, and is the appropriate oil for the car. Just keep topping it up until the valve cover gaskets can be fixed. But, on the other hand, I doubt that there is really any problem with trying the High Mileage oil. Not that I think it will work, but there really isn't much to lose, especially if the OP gets those gaskets fixed and switches back to M1 0W40 after. However, if using a NON LL-01 approved oil, the OP must change oil more frequently because it cannot be determined if the oil can go the distance recommended by BMW for that vehicle.

Now onto this other fun stuff about reliability... Nothing personal here, so please don't take it that way. I realize that we all own certain vehicles and obviously bought them for a reason, but aside from that, here are my thoughts.

Between me, my immediate family, and my close friends, I have had personal experience with many cars from all places in the world. My family has owned domestics, asian, and european cars. I have serviced and worked on all types of cars. Having said that, I can give you all kinds of examples of which cars were good and which ones were not in my experience. Obviously, a handful of cars doesn't constitute statistical evidence, but its enough to open my eyes to the inconsistencies in the statistics and authoritative reports, such as Consumer Reports, JD Power, and the likes.

When you go through the ratings, you will find many inconsistencies if you have a watchful eye and some experience with the particular brand of vehicle that you are looking at. One point about my last car, a Nissan Altima powered by the 3.5L VQ V6 engine, it was rated above average by Consumer Reports in almost every category. I had very few problems with that car until I sold it, when I suspected that the famous timing chain issues were about to surface their ugly head (at 220,000 km). Looking at the Nissan Maxima of the same year, with the exact same engine (literally identical), it had completely different ratings. The engine reliability was below average, but how can that be when the same engine in the Altima was above average? It makes no sense, and I have seen many examples like this with other brands as well. That is why I don't regard those reliability reports as anything but a starting point. They are based on surveys and an angry owner or a respondent ignorant of automotive knowledge can very easily skew the results.

I can personally give you examples of some very dissatisfying experiences with Japanese vehicles that I personally have owned, and I can also tell you about my spare workhorse vehicle (a 2002 Chevy Venture) that just runs and runs everyday despite the use and abuse it receives. I can tell you about my friend's 1999 Mercedes S500 that never had an oil leak or any major repairs in all of the years he's had it up to now (with over 300,000 km on it at this point). I'd say that his Benz is far more reliable than the Honda that my fiance had that just about fell apart before it even hit 140,000 km. That car cost us so much money, we could have bought another car if we had just got rid of it long ago.

My point... I doubt the Japanese have any superior engineering to other manufacturers. Even a meat and potatoes company such as GM has had countless innovations over the years. I think we all forget that after the engineering stage in a vehicle design cycle, comes the bean counters and the reality check. Some companies just cost-cut better than others, and the final ability of a vehicle to please its owners depends solely on the balance that a manufacturer strikes between quality and price.

 

[maxell0405]

I have an 04 BMW 330i with 125k and have used both Mobil 0w40 and 10w40HM. Both are very good oils and it won't make much difference which Verite uses. The HM is a bit thicker when cold, but has better shear stability at high temperatures. It has a bit more zddp and costs less. It has a higher TBN but a lower VI. The 0w40 by consensus around here is primarily a Group IV PAO basestock, and the HM is primarily a Group III. I don't know what "seal conditioners" they use in the HM, as they don't seem to show up on UOA's, as far as I can tell, anyway.

As for the valve cover gasket on my car: I changed it when I did the plugs at 120k. It wasn't leaking, but at almost 8 years and with the reputation of these things (not if but when), I thought it was a good idea. That thing was so soft and compliant it was indistinguishable from the new one. i lifted it at one corner and it came off in a single piece with almost no effort at all. I actually considered keeping it as a spare. My guess? Regular oil changes with quality product.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
When you go through the ratings, you will find many inconsistencies if you have a watchful eye and some experience with the particular brand of vehicle that you are looking at.


Agreed. If you want the best "reliability" data, I suppose the data that the automakers have on repairs and warranty claims at their dealers would be the best. Good luck getting all that information, though.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: il_signore97
When you go through the ratings, you will find many inconsistencies if you have a watchful eye and some experience with the particular brand of vehicle that you are looking at.


Agreed. If you want the best "reliability" data, I suppose the data that the automakers have on repairs and warranty claims at their dealers would be the best. Good luck getting all that information, though.

Go to the reliabilityindex.com website I linked to earlier.

That data comes from warranties in the UK.

Honda, Suzuki, Toyota are top 3 of 35.

VW 24, BMW 26, Audi 29, MB 31. Well at least they beat Alfa Romeo and Jeep.

But Porsche were at 34 of 35.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: il_signore97
When you go through the ratings, you will find many inconsistencies if you have a watchful eye and some experience with the particular brand of vehicle that you are looking at.


Agreed. If you want the best "reliability" data, I suppose the data that the automakers have on repairs and warranty claims at their dealers would be the best. Good luck getting all that information, though.

Go to the reliabilityindex.com website I linked to earlier.

That data comes from warranties in the UK.

Honda, Suzuki, Toyota are top 3 of 35.

VW 24, BMW 26, Audi 29, MB 31. Well at least they beat Alfa Romeo and Jeep.

But Porsche were at 34 of 35.


Yet there's a Honda Pilot with a deconstructed V6 in the thread below this one. Go figure........

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Individual examples of Toyota having issues does not negate the fact that Lexus and Toyota are, as a whole, more reliable than BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, etc. JD Powers and Associates and Consumer Reports as well as other sources prove this year in and year out. And while we can agree that in many thing Lexus have copied their German counterparts the converse is true as well, as noted by Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, etc. For example, Lexus intense pursuit for perfection in eliminating NVH has been copied by the Germans. No one here is pretending that a Lexus drives better than a BMW (for a man at least), however, the facts are facts and Lexus are more reliable.


Did you know that when Porsche were going bankrupt they called in Toyota?

The chief engineer of Toyota came in and straight away saw the mess on their factory floor.

They introduced Toyota's LEAN methods and had a turnaround.

Google "Porsche Lean"

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Yet there's a Honda Pilot with a deconstructed V6 in the thread below this one. Go figure........


So there's data from 50000 policies and you cite a post on BITOG as a rebuttal?

I admire you bravado!

I would have expected something like well its the UK, the owners and dealers don't service the vehicles properly, or there is a statistical bias in the data or the index is flawed in how it's calculated.

But "there is a post beneath this one where a Japanese car has not been reliable"?

Even by BITOG standards that is amazing rebuttal!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: Capa
Individual examples of Toyota having issues does not negate the fact that Lexus and Toyota are, as a whole, more reliable than BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, etc. JD Powers and Associates and Consumer Reports as well as other sources prove this year in and year out. And while we can agree that in many thing Lexus have copied their German counterparts the converse is true as well, as noted by Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, etc. For example, Lexus intense pursuit for perfection in eliminating NVH has been copied by the Germans. No one here is pretending that a Lexus drives better than a BMW (for a man at least), however, the facts are facts and Lexus are more reliable.


Did you know that when Porsche were going bankrupt they called in Toyota?

The chief engineer of Toyota came in and straight away saw the mess on their factory floor.

They introduced Toyota's LEAN methods and had a turnaround.

Google "Porsche Lean"


Did you know that when Toyota first manufactured cars they used GM's Stovebolt engine?

Google Toyota's history, or better yet, just read the bloody WIKI on Toyota, which gives a run-down as to what got them started - General Motors.

Porsche is now part of the VAG group. You know that VW was essentially a Nazi invention? One of Hitler's talking points was a car for every German. Of course the "bug" was that car.

BMW was originally an airplane manufacturer. Mercedes manufacturers most of the vehicles for the 3rd Reich.

What does ANY of this have to do with a thread regarding oil choice for a 540i? I'm not sure...... This thread has less direction than Rosie O'Donnell on crack-cocaine at this point. We are now apparently discussing the relevance of Porsche's financial past with respect to Toyota...........

WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Yet there's a Honda Pilot with a deconstructed V6 in the thread below this one. Go figure........


So there's data from 50000 policies and you cite a post on BITOG as a rebuttal?

I admire you bravado!


Rebuttal? No, I found it funny. Apparently you missed the memo.

 

[FoxS]

I was only directing my reply and info to Capa, I'm sorry that you don't like members posting to each other to share information. For some reason it seems to upset you.

Look just believe what you want, I'm not out to change your mind. Like I said, I appreciate something in many brands from all countries. I have owned and do own German cars.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
I was only directing my reply and info to Capa, I'm sorry that you don't like members posting to each other to share information. For some reason it seems to upset you.

Look just believe what you want, I'm not out to change your mind. Like I said, I appreciate something in many brands from all countries. I have owned and do own German cars.


And I'm Mary Poppins.

You've trolled this thread HARD with posts that have ZERO relevance to the OP's question about oil choice for his car. I posted relevant information, because I own the same body style of car with an engine in the same family. Somehow this devolved into some Pro-Nippon anti-German car reliability rant that you ACTIVELY participated in, all the while tipping your hand trying to make it "all good" by saying you've owned and do own German cars. And I have the Bismark in my back yard and the Enterprise is being retired to serve as my private Yacht sir.

Feigning innocence and pretending you have no agenda or bias here? I may be many things sir, but a fool isn't one of them.