10 Reasons Why Volkswagen Can't Succeed In America

[surfstar]

The current TSI engine is a Ward's top ten
http://wardsauto.com/2015/2015-winner-vw-18l-turbocharged-dohc-4-cyl

and the current MK7 Golf lineup was Motor Trend's car of the year, and has received many rave reviews. The same [MQB] A3 platform underpins the new Golfs.

You can get the same platform, an award winning engine, and Germanic driving dynamics plus interior quality, for under $20k. Thanks to dieselgate, VWs are an exceptional value right now (and have been since November).


Newer engine and platform has unknown long-term reliability, and is the only thing that gave me pause. Drove one, and knew it was worth the risk.


"extra" maintenance? Look at this summary: http://shopdap.com/service-schedule-for-mk7-gti-2015-2016/
and that's for GTIs - my S has longer spark plug intervals.

 

[VeeDubb]

I would say the Golf (along with the GTI and Beetle) still offer something unique. I just don't see a reason for the Passat, CC and even the Jetta (aside from the GLI) to exist in their current form.

The Passat is trying to out Camry the Camry which is not going to happen. The CC is trying to out A4 the A4 which is also not going to happen.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

I hope VW leaves and takes Chrysler/Fiat with them. No loss at all.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I am comparing apples to apples in that we are talking about base models

My main point is that the price gap between these two VAG products are insufficient to justify the VW brand product. I'll take the Audi even minus the navigation system without thinking twice. Make the CC $24-$28K and then I'll consider it over the Audi.

If you are comparing base models, then there is a base model CC that costs $31.5K, and I'd expect you can get a better discount on a CC than you can get on an A4.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
The CC is trying to out A4 the A4 which is also not going to happen.

The CC has more rear legroom than the A4. You'd have to get the A6 to get the same amount of rear legroom as the CC. So again, these are not exactly comparable.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I am comparing apples to apples in that we are talking about base models

My main point is that the price gap between these two VAG products are insufficient to justify the VW brand product. I'll take the Audi even minus the navigation system without thinking twice. Make the CC $24-$28K and then I'll consider it over the Audi.

If you are comparing base models, then there is a base model CC that costs $31.5K, and I'd expect you can get a better discount on a CC than you can on an A4.

That base model doesn't seem widely available. VW even advertises the CC as 34K and up.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
That base model doesn't seem widely available.

Now you are nitpicking.

$37K A4s aren't widely available either. Most of the stuff on dealer lots has extra options/packages that brings their prices well into the $40Ks, because a typical Audi buyer wants these niceties. They don't want a stripper.

If you want a bare bones A4, you are going to have to order it, just like a bare bones CC.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
The CC is trying to out A4 the A4 which is also not going to happen.

The CC has more rear legroom than the A4. You'd have to get the A6 to get the same amount of rear legroom as the CC. So again, these are not exactly comparable.


So do you think CC buyers share similar demographics with a4 buyers or a6 buyers? I know many people that are simultaneously shopping CC and a4s (neither are ideal family cars). I don't know anybody that cross shops the CC and A6.

I would think if rear leg room is a deal breaker, somebody in the CC price range would look at the Passat over the CC.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
So do you think CC buyers share similar demographics with a4 buyers or a6 buyers? I know many people that are simultaneously shopping CC and a4s (neither are ideal family cars). I don't know anybody that cross shops the CC and A6.

If somebody wants an Audi, they are not going to look at a VW at all, IMO.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
That base model doesn't seem widely available.

Now you are nitpicking.

$37K A4s aren't widely available either. Most of the stuff on dealer lots has extra options/packages that brings their prices well into the $40Ks, because a typical Audi buyer wants these niceties. They don't want a stripper.

If you want a bare bones A4, you are going to have to order it, just like a bare bones CC.


Go to the VW website. Hit the CC link. What is the starting price point? Do the same thing on the Audi. Yes, buried deep somewhere is a CC "available" at $31K.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Go to the VW website. Hit the CC link. What is the starting price point? Do the same thing on the Audi. Yes, buried deep somewhere is a CC "available" at $31K.

The point is, it's available if you want it.

All you have to do is click on "TRIMS".

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
So do you think CC buyers share similar demographics with a4 buyers or a6 buyers? I know many people that are simultaneously shopping CC and a4s (neither are ideal family cars). I don't know anybody that cross shops the CC and A6.

If somebody wants an Audi, they are not going to look at a VW at all, IMO.



So the bottomline is you think the CC is good product placement?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
So do you think CC buyers share similar demographics with a4 buyers or a6 buyers? I know many people that are simultaneously shopping CC and a4s (neither are ideal family cars). I don't know anybody that cross shops the CC and A6.

If somebody wants an Audi, they are not going to look at a VW at all, IMO.



So the bottomline is you think the CC is good product placement?

Personally, I don't care about the CC. I was just trying to point out to you that the difference in price between the CC and the A4 is larger than what you initially stated.

On top of that, they are not really comparable, IMO.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
So do you think CC buyers share similar demographics with a4 buyers or a6 buyers? I know many people that are simultaneously shopping CC and a4s (neither are ideal family cars). I don't know anybody that cross shops the CC and A6.

If somebody wants an Audi, they are not going to look at a VW at all, IMO.



So the bottomline is you think the CC is good product placement?

Personally, I don't care about the CC. I was just trying to point out to you that the difference in price between the CC and the A4 is larger than what you initially stated.

On top of that, they are not really comparable, IMO.


I'm asking you from the perspective of good business strategy on VWs part.

And even if you can get a CC for nearly 10k lower right now at this moment, part of the reason is that there is so little demand for that car that dealers are practically begging you to take one. In other words, it driven by an ill conceived business plan that will not contribute to VWs long term viability.

 

[KrisZ]

Very unlikely VW will exit NA or US. Their sales would have to approach those of Suzuki and Mitsubishi. And Mitsu is still hanging in there.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I'm asking you from the perspective of good business strategy on VWs part.

I think only VAG can answer that. Sometimes companies have ulterior motives that the consumers may not be aware of. Such was the case with Phaeton.

 

[Shrubitup]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
One example is the VW CC starts at $34k. The new 2017 A4 starts at $37. Gotta be crazy to take the CC.

But you need to compare apples to apples. That $34K CC includes some features that you would have to pay extra for on the A4, for example: navigation. That alone will cost you an extra $3K.





Huge LOL on the navigation. $3,000 will buy you a nice iPhone 6 Plus (plus) some leftover G's for hookers and blow.

 

[Garak]

I may be accused of sounding like Pop, but I'd just get maps, and forego the navigation and the stupid phone.

Obviously, Quattro Pete is right that there are a lot of nuances to optioning out an A4 versus a CC. However, the original point is valid, that a CC does get into some pretty rarefied pricing territory. Someone spending that kind of money may very well look at both cars, whereas someone shopping for a basic Golf won't be likely looking at getting an R8.

 

[KrisZ]

Yeah, but isn't the CC the European Passat? Something that most reviews and internet Monday quarter backers were bellyaching about when VW introduced the Americanized Passat version. So they gave what apparently a lot of enthusiasts wanted, the European Passat, and apparently it's too expensive.
I guess the expectation was that it would've been priced like a Camry LE, and even then they would find something to gripe about.

Car enthusiasts, for the most part, are the worst group to take advice on which models will be popular or not. They will be chest thumping how they would buy that manual, 300hp sports wagon in a heart beat if it was only available, only to have pathetically dismal sales when such a model arrives. But of course, reading the magazines and forum, one would thing it would sell like hot cakes.

 

[Garak]

Or listening to car writers "love" a car and its stiff suspension and minimal option during the first road test, and then swear about it when they're saddled with the thing for a long term test, i.e. BRZ.