10 fuel efficient vehicles on the horizon

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Despite my high miles, I still do a significant amount of urban driving, which really makes the hybrid shine. This week, including the urban driving, I kept it over 50 mpgs.

FE and safety are both top priorities for me.

My G was a 2004. I can't say I had any real problem with my VQ. It used zero oil that I could measure. I did occasionally have some very minor timing chain rattle for a second or so on startup. TCR is a known annoyance issue in some VQs. Overall, a very, very nice engine -- but a thirsty one...
 
Originally Posted By: Chuck1986
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Chuck1986
...
May I ask why you went from a G35 to a Prius? I personally would've kept the G35 cuz it's safer, sexier and faster. But that's just me
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Sure. I determined that I'd be driving between 35k-45k miles per year for the next several years. I liked the G35, but the sexier and faster parts are not that important to me. Safer? What's your basis for that claim. According to the IIHS ratings, the Prius should actually be slightly safer than the G. Are you laboring under the belief that the Prius is a "tiny" car? It's not. It actually weighs about 3000 lbs, and is much closer to the size of a Camry than a Corolla. The short nose is an illusion too; you're really not much closer to the front bumper than you are in any mid-size car. The base of the windshield is much further forward than it is in more conventional cars. The flat space on top of the dash is vast. I don't see any reason why the Prius is any less safe than any other car of similar size.
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Gotcha. And yes, you're right, it's not a good idea to generalize as diesel being better than hybrid. Although I would like to see some effort made with biodiesel technology - I think diesel and CVT technology shows some promise.
If you're doing that much driving in a year, fuel economy would seem like your #1 priority (or maybe #2 behind safety.)
So what year was your G35? Did ya like it? Have any problems with oil burning? I know some of the VQ35s had oil burning issues.


Neither hybrids or diesels are good with mixed driving. Hybrids, the more city driving the better. Diesels, the more highway the better.

Diesels + CVTs = not good. Better learn to shift a manual with diesel (not a bad idea), because they don't like load following. i.e. driving like we do in the US, not planning ahead or driving with momentum, kills diesel mileage. Only really large diesels in pickups (Cummins Dodge or Duramax, etc) go well with automatics to spool the torque converter with gobs of torque. CVTs and automatics with small diesels don't do well on mpgs.

Eventually, diesel hybrids with capacitor buffers and clutch gearboxes will solve this, but there's lots to invent and costs to reduce. Toyota, Honda, Peugeot, VW-Audi, Renault-Nissan, GM, Ford, MB, and BMW are all working on this.

I don't believe the safety issue. The #1 thing you can do to reduce your risk is to drive better yourself. Gas prices will get rid of the SUV fear.

Which vehicle would you like on a twisty switchback road through a canyon?

A: Buick LeSabre
B: Dodge Durango
C: Ford Focus 5-speed
D; Motorhome

Easy choice.

Also, not all drivers are interested in an appliance. It IS possible to be a performance driver who values the driving experience while getting great mileage. You can't sell a car in Europe in large volumes if it isn't fun, doesn't have to be thirsty.
 
Originally Posted By: ffracer
...
Neither hybrids or diesels are good with mixed driving. ...


I don't know about diesels, but I can tell you that at the moment, my car is sitting the garage showing an average of just over 50 mpg after a week of -- you guessed it -- more than 400 miles of very mixed driving.

Here's the pattern. I live in Pensacola, and do a lot of work here, which requires a fair amount of urban moving. Very good for the Prius. My main office is in the town of Milton, a 17.5 mile drive to the east, from my house, mostly down I-10. I also drive around Milton a bunch.

I drive a very mixed profile, not at all exclusive urban driving, and still do very well with the hybrid.
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These things are always "on the horizon".

These super diesels were supposed to be waiting on the docks for ultra low sulfur fuel to become available in 06/07. Where are they?

I give them as much "vaporware" status as a microsoft product coming out on time, and working as advertised.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
These things are always "on the horizon".

These super diesels were supposed to be waiting on the docks for ultra low sulfur fuel to become available in 06/07. Where are they?

I give them as much "vaporware" status as a microsoft product coming out on time, and working as advertised.


Good call. I remember reading about the solar-powered car way back in '96 when I was in fourth grade. 12 years later and it's still as much of a concept as it was back then! Even if some of these 'wonder cars' actually come out (ie. the VentureOne), they'll probably be like the second coming of Yugos - they'll break down, frustrate many people and quickly go out of production!
 
Wow you guys are pessimists. Don't forget that 5 of the 10 are already in production. It would be great if some of the wilder ones are produced and catch on in a meaningful way, if nothing else just to get manufacturers to think outside the box. The distinction between "independent" manufacturers and "established" ones like Toyota and VW may be the biggest factor as to what actually hits the market.

If that venture one existed and performed as advertised, I would buy it in a second. The reason is because it would be supposedly the most fun car to drive out there (watch the video reviews of the carver, the car that it is based on) at http://www.flytheroad.com/ and then the crazy mileage and plug in ability are secondary benefits. This car leans up to 45 degrees around corners. Wild.

I also like the subaru diesel because as someone said it is the best of all worlds, versatile, economical, AWD, and gas subarus are pretty bullet proof so a diesel should, in theory, be even more reliable long term.

I'm a big fan of VW but while they are considered dependable in europe and other parts of the world, they have sort of a bad rap here. A bluemotion polo diesel would sell like mad if they offered it here IMO.

I didn't link the civic diesel that is available in Europe because I don't think it will make it here but that thing would sell like crazy if honda ever pulled there head out and made it avail. here. Maybe they don't want to mess with the U.S. low-emissions diesel laws?

link for civic diesel review

http://jalopnik.com/356307/2007-honda-civic-22-i+ctdi

What about that aptera car? It looks like it is pretty far along and the idea is amazing but I don't know if I could stomach being seen in that thing.
 
http://www.greencarcongress.com/ might be interesting to you guys?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237945.html new diesels

http://www.corbinsparrow.com/
another electric 3-wheeler

http://www.bmw120d.com/
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_..._test_road_test
will BMW bring small diesels to the US?

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/12/05/european-ford-focus-diesel-fuel-economy-rated-at-42-mpg/
why not here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_up!
they're talking about making this and a "small Beetle" on the same mid-engine chassis

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/revealed-volksw.html
VW Golf diesel/hybrid
I think the Polo will be the smaller "up!" chassis.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/23/vw-diesel-hybrid-is-doa/
they're not going to make it anyhow?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=125673
Mahindra is talking diesel-hybrid

http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/SsangYong_news.html?id=7899
SsangYong?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/25/finally-take-a-look-at-fiskers-hybrid/
and you thought a Tesla was expensive?
ps. Tesla is suing Fisker over stolen tech

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070725/FREE/70725004/-1/newsletter01
when's the Mercedes Dies-Otto coming out?

http://tatanano.inservices.tatamotors.com/tatamotors/
lol
 
Nobody has mentioned Honda's "Global Small Hybrid", which is surprising since it seems like the only product in this thread that can actually be purchased from a dealership in early 2009.

This new Prius-fighter (published term, not my own) will be powered by a revised IMA powertrain with a new engine control unit and electric motor (speculated 170-185 volts) that boasts reduced overall size and weight in comparison to the Civic Hybrid's IMA system. The car will utilize NiMH batteries since Honda feels Li-Ion will need more time to prove itself. By controlling total curb weight, the GSH will deliver better gas mileage than the Prius while being priced "well below $20,000". Honda estimates worldwide sales of 200k units per year, 100K of which will be shipped to the US (since it will be manufactured in Suzuka, Japan).

They have also stated that a "hybrid sports model", currently dubbed the CR-Z, will debut in the near future. As Honda junkies have hoped for, it is the spiritual successor to the CR-X. CEO Takeo Fukui said "this will be a sporty hybrid unlike anything currently on the market."

Honda is keen on making the most affordable hybrid in the world. Toyota is going to build a heavier Prius, slap a Lexus emblem on it, then sell it for more money. For shame.
 
Originally Posted By: saaber1
I didn't link the civic diesel that is available in Europe because I don't think it will make it here but that thing would sell like crazy if honda ever pulled there head out and made it avail. here. Maybe they don't want to mess with the U.S. low-emissions diesel laws?

link for civic diesel review

http://jalopnik.com/356307/2007-honda-civic-22-i+ctdi

Honda is reluctant to bring the 2.2L i-CTDi over to the U.S. for a myriad of reasons. There are definite plans, however, to bring the i-DTEC engine to America, almost certainly to debut in the Acura TSX.

Honda ain't afraid of no low-emissions diesel laws. This "clean diesel" engine meets EPA Tier II Bin 5 standards without needing to inject urea. What do you think about that, Dr. Dieter Zetsche? Back to the drawing board for you.

There's some debate over why Honda chose to debut such a fuel-sipping motor in an Acura (with a generally wealthier clientele) as opposed to a Honda (whose customers are more economy-oriented). The only logic I can gather is that they wanted to stuff their high-end technology into their high-end cars, then allow it to trickle down.
 
Originally Posted By: Chuck1986
I wish people wouldn't overrate econoboxes..I could never see myself driving one.
1) They have the speed of an octogenarian pushing himself in a wheelchair. (I've never owned a car that's been rated less than 190 horsepower.)


I never owned a vehicle with more than 150hp and always drive at the general speed of traffic. This morning I was around 70mph in the left lane using 100hp engine. It didn't blow up :)

My top speed was over 100mph using a 50hp engine, Kawi Ninja ZX500
Later I went up to 80hp, Ninja ZX6E and passed plenty of 200hp+ cars :)
If you *REALLY* care for speed instead of using bigger engines simply use a smaller machine. They are plenty safe when you are faster than everyone else on the road.

Originally Posted By: Chuck1986

2) Many of them are extremely unsafe. Get in a bad accident and you'll be glad you saved on gas so you can apply the savings towards the co-pays on opiod analgesics, physical therapy and cervical vertebrae surgeries. Oh gosh, imagine if a drunk driver in a Ford Explorer smashed into that VentureOne - then the gas savings can go towards your funeral.


No accidents yet. I was broadsided on a bicycle year back right in front of my university entrance. She went through red light. Learned not to trust drivers and traffix signals. Now I check all the angles all the time. 2 year ago approaching an intersection I see a pickup from other street NOT slowing down for stop sign. I DID see it because my training is to watch for unusual things, so I was not even close (simply slowed down). However he did hit car in front of me going at about 50mph. It ended fine. Still, when you see such an impact from side it is clear that car size doesn't matter. Side impact from a pickup will do just about the same damage to econobox as any bigger car. My *REAL* defense is not car size but avoiding such situations. Best of all, I'll choose lower risk roads.

Originally Posted By: Chuck1986

3) Better hope the battery never breaks. To replace it you'll be paying far more than the $$ you saved on gas.


Better hope transmission never breaks. Better hope head gasket doesn't fail. Better hope ...
What exactly is the difference? There are expensive failures and repairs on any vehicle. If anything, electric vehicles have less parts to fail.

Originally Posted By: Chuck1986

4) Contrary to popular myth, they're actually very bad for the environment. Refining the zinc/nickel for the batteries produces many toxic chemicals that destroy the environment. And disposing of those batteries will do further damage to the environment, not to mention the recycling fee.


There is plenty of zinc and nickel in use today. It will be processed anyway. And how do you compare that damage to all the oil needed for ICE? Look at ALberta oil sands, the massive tailings ponds. There is plenty of damage being done today, not to mention wars. There is no comparison.
 
Originally Posted By: Chuck1986


WOW. Did you really think I was referring to regular car batteries? No, I was referring to the battery used in powering a hybrid. They didn't have them 58 years ago. How old are you anyways?


Well the new battery technology is so much better than old led acid. Your old led acid will fail far sooner than the new ones. And how good is led for the environment?
 
Originally Posted By: Chuck1986
Diesel sounds like much more promising technology than hybrids. Disiel engines will likely last exponentially longer, you don't have to worry about that battery and they can be decently fast (most hybrids I see on the road are extremely slow, heck they probably couldn't go a quarter mile in less than 18 seconds). The 2010 Maxima is supposed to have a 3.0L diesel that makes 400 lb/ft torque!


Except there is a shortage of diesel now. Since Europe is already diriving on diesel and just about all of the industrial machinery is on diesel, then power generators, etc. There are way too many diesel consumers.

Hence, my last heating oil bill had it cost almost as much as gasoline (used to be much cheaper).

So it doesn't matter how much you like diesel because there will be none available for your fuel tank to fill.
 
Originally Posted By: televascular
Nobody has mentioned Honda's "Global Small Hybrid", which is surprising since it seems like the only product in this thread that can actually be purchased from a dealership in early 2009.....


I haven't seen any info on it. Got any links with details?
 
Originally Posted By: televascular
Honda is reluctant to bring the 2.2L i-CTDi over to the U.S. for a myriad of reasons. There are definite plans, however, to bring the i-DTEC engine to America, almost certainly to debut in the Acura TSX.

Honda ain't afraid of no low-emissions diesel laws. This "clean diesel" engine meets EPA Tier II Bin 5 standards without needing to inject urea. What do you think about that, Dr. Dieter Zetsche? Back to the drawing board for you.

There's some debate over why Honda chose to debut such a fuel-sipping motor in an Acura (with a generally wealthier clientele) as opposed to a Honda (whose customers are more economy-oriented). The only logic I can gather is that they wanted to stuff their high-end technology into their high-end cars, then allow it to trickle down.

I was a Bosch/Honda demo car at the ALMS race at Laguna Seca a couple years. It was a Euro Accord wagon, but... the Euro Accord is the same body as our Acura TL.


I completely forgot about the CRX/CRZ hybrid. If they make it bigger than the Insight then it might sell ok in the States.
Fit hybrid is interesting. I wonder if they'll try to copy Toyota's data screen?


What is a Lexus Prius going to get that the Prius Touring model doesn't already have?
leather, HID's, nav, larger wheels?
It's got those already...
 
Originally Posted By: bob_ninja
I haven't seen any info on it. Got any links with details?

Here is a breakdown of future Honda products as provided by Vtec.net (a reliable Honda source, by the way). These are spyshots of the Airwave/Fit frankenmule testing the GSH powertrain, courtesy of Ms. Priddy. This is a transcript of Takeo Fukui's speech to the Foreign Correspondents Club of Japan earlier this year. He talks about the GSH and CR-Z near the last few paragraphs.
 
Originally Posted By: gtx510
It was a Euro Accord wagon, but... the Euro Accord is the same body as our Acura TL.

Actually, the Euro Accord is the same as our Acura TSX. However, the Acura TL does share its chassis with the Honda Legend (aka Acura RL) and previous-gen Accord (USDM)/Inspire (JDM).

I am very hopeful that the CR-Z will deliver enough performance to be worthy of its rumored sportiness. If it's a hatchback, I may consider getting one after my current Honda dies. In twelve years.
 
It's a misconception that the Prius is only spectacular in mixed driving. The Prius is a lightweight, aerodynamic car with a small gas engine. It will can achieve great economy in any driving permitting it is driven wisely.

As for those on this thread with stars in their eyes over a six figure income, you'd be surprised how broke you can feel with a family income well into the six digits. I don't try and save gas because I have to. I try and save gas b/c I want to and it's one less thing I have to spend all that money on. Not to mention how much more generous Uncle Sam feels you should be now that you're "well off." Heck, having money has made me ten times the cheapskate I was when we were in a credit-card induced near-death spiral.

Friendly rant over.
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I'd love a next-gen Prius or anything economical I can cram a family of 5 in. But I'm still keeping the CR-V. I wouldn't have made it home with the crew in the giant flash flood last night without it.
 
anyone mention that kia will put a hybrid in the kia rio? I think mpg is supposed to be close to 45mpg.
 
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