10,000 miles on Amsoil 0-30W in Ls400

[Gebo]

My post somehow got erased from last nite, so let's start over. I have a Lexus V8 with 60,000 miles that has run Amsoil 0-30w from 1000 miles til now. I do a minium daily 8 mile one way commute to work 5 days/week (4000 miles/yr) with my total mileage at 25,000 miles/year. I use the Amsoil SDF 34 and stock Toyota Air Filter. Here are the results I just got from Oil Analyzers, Inc.

Iron 13
Chro 1
Lead 29
Cu 11
Al 5
Si 17
Boron 1
Na 12
Mg 336
Ca 2757
P 1149
Zn 1355

Vis @ 100c 11.29

TBN 2.69
Oxid 12.0
Nitr 18.0

Please help with interpretation? Please explain your thinking if possible? I am a very loyal AMsoil user (20 years) and I'm sort of disturbed at the low TBN. I did run almost 1 gal of Toluene through my fuel as a cleaner.

[ December 19, 2002, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Gebo ]

 

[TooSlick]

Gebo,

The OA tests are now being run by Cleveland Tech Center - CTC, so the data will look different from that generated by OA. OA is an R & D lab and they have simply been overwhelmed by the # of oil samples they have been receiving. The new setup with CTC is supposed to allow for on line viewing of the analysis results the day they are generated, once the system is fully in place.

The slightly different, ASTM test protocol used by CTC results in a total base number - TBN - that is about 2.0 points lower than you are used to seeing from Oil Analyzers. More specifically, they are using a different type of acid to perform the titration of the used oil samples. As a result, CTC normally uses a lower cutoff of 2.0 for TBN. The numbers that CTC generates for oxidation/nitration aren't directly comparable either - they are not expressed in terms of the percentage of the allowable limit. What they are showing is the raw data from the FTIR - Fourier Transform Infared Radiography - I forget offhand what the units are for this, but Terry Dyson would know. I recently got back an analysis that had 10's for Oxid/Nitr and a TBN of 3.96, so yours look about right. I have no idea how long you ran the previous samples, which could affect the results somewhat? This is a big engine with lots of wearing parts in the valvetrain, so the wear metal levels look normal. The lead level may be on the high side, but I haven't seen enough data from these Toyota V-8's to say for sure .... The viscosity is spot on for fresh oil of this particular formulation - ie, no shearing as in the Camry V-6.

I'd recommend NOT using the toluene the next time around, which is a strong solvent! ...if you feel the need to use fuel injector cleaner, the Amsoil PI gas additive does an excellent job and does not interact with the crankcase oil. I use 1-2 ounces with every tank of fuel and I've never had to touch an injector in over twenty years of using the stuff. I'd sample again after 10,000 miles and if the results are repeatable, I'd say this is the drain interval to stick with. The short trip driving to work isn't helping things in this particular situation, but it does sound like you do quite a bit of highway driving besides.

If you have previous oil analysis data from this same engine/oil combo, it would be very helpful to post that. I'd be glad to look at it privately as well ....I hope you find this helpful.

regards,

TooSlick

 

[Patman]

We lost a few posts yesterday with our server problems, so it's nothing personal.

Amsoil 0w30 starts out at 11.3 cst at 100c, so this oil stayed perfectly in grade after 10k, that's very good! That TBN definitely is not as low as it shows though.

[ December 18, 2002, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[TooSlick]

Patman,

It's 4:40 am here in Huntsville, Alabama ...don't you EVER sleep?

TS

 

[Patman]

Hehe, I'm an early riser!

Without an alarm, I wake up everyday (including weekends) at about 4:30am. I don't even need to leave for work until about 7:30 to 8am either. There's just too much good info on here that keeps me coming back all day long!

 

[Gebo]

TooSlick,

Who does your analysis? If I understand you properly, some of the results don't mean what they say. Is there a consensus as to a lab that does give "more accurate" numbers?

I do understand how different labs give different results. I used to sell Cow Feed and I learned how to interpret feed analysis depending upon who and how it was analyzed. I learned that this one particular lab tended to give higher "TDN" (total digestible nutrients) than others so I learned how to "fudge" the numbers over time. Is that what you are doing when interpreting the "TBN" in this sample?

[ December 18, 2002, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Gebo ]

 

[Gebo]

Oh, yeah, what about the Silicon value? DOes my oil have silicon in the raw sample? Has anyone done the analysis of unused Amsoil 0-30W? I couldn't find it.

AS to the Touluene, I do use PI. And I used 1 1/2 qts of Toluene per tank of gas twice in this 10,000 mile interval. Does "anal" seem appropriate in describing me?

 

[Spector]

My posts were lost in the process. Two comments. First, to pull the Amsoil chain this oi is supposed to go 35,000 miles in a mechanically sound engine. The wear metals and all indications are that this engine is sound so why the rapid depletion of the TBN? Again, my point is that Amsoil needs to fess up and say that 25-35,000 miles is only realistic in ideal circumstances and with analysis. Second, I sort of disagree with Bob, (his post on this sample was lost also but he noted high levels of lead,iron and silicon) to me the lead,iron and silicon are not too high, especially if you look a the ppm/1000 miles. I have at least a dozen samples of analysis with levels higher then that and the engines are fine. My 150,000 mile enigne has had those levels its entire life. If I changed the filters and cleaned the intake areas every time I had 25 ppm of silicon I would have done it 20 times by now. For my Camry these levels are normal. My point is we need TREND ANALYSIS not one sample does any opinion make. This may be perfectly normal for this engine and driving style.

Last, I sent a sample of the Amsoil 0W30 in today from a 4 cyl Mystique. Oil has 9100 miles on it and has been in there one year with a filter at 6 months. Previous samples have shown levels similar to what is reported above, again, to me normal for my engine but I will post the results of this 9000 mile 0W sample when received. Given the season it will probably be Jan before I get results.

Under the virgin oil section a sample of the 0W results are there. No silicon. About 5 or so years ago Amsoil did use silicon in its 10W about 10-15 ppm if I recall coreectly. Not sure of current use.

[ December 18, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[Gebo]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Gebo,

If you have previous oil analysis data from this same engine/oil combo, it would be very helpful to post that. I'd be glad to look at it privately as well ....I hope you find this helpful.

regards,

TooSlick

---

This is my first sample. I just did it because i happened to see I had a coouple of the old kits laying around....

I didn't include any test that was "0"

So if yu don't see it, it had "0" for results.

[ December 18, 2002, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Gebo ]

 

[Pablo]

Up here early also.

Gebo - thanks for reposting - this one I knew for sure got "lost".

As I wrote before - your wear numbers are pretty darn good. The TBN bugs me too - but we need to find out more. I mean if the labs are using different acids - then they can present the numbers they get - but need to also calculate the TBN as based on a simple acid. I am NOT familiar with the ASTM.

TooSlick - excellent post!! As for the Nit. and Oxd. numbers - I have seen the % scale and the 1-199 scale - is this one yet different? I mean Gebo's numbers look pretty good on either of the scales I mentioned.....You seem to have some inside scoop on this OAI "subcontractor" - keep us informed (AL don't tell us Jack)

 

[Pablo]

No Si to speak of in raw 0W-30. The analysis was what? 17 ppm? That could be from alloys, gaskets, some very tiny air/vacuum leaks - but at 10K miles NOT a problem.

Your viscosity is near perfect as are the other indicators.

 

[Gebo]

Pablo,

I just switched to an ITG foam filter. Amsoil doesn't make the round one for this car. I'm curious as to what numbers look like next time. I even used some plumbers putty to seal the air filter edges

 

[MavRick]

Did you drain this oil or did the lab recommend draining? What good is a lab if it can't report the TBN properly? I'm surprised that OA didn't qualify them for TBN testing since Amsoil is used for extended drains and this number is critical!

 

[Gebo]

Giles,

Yeah, I did this while I was draining the oil. Like I said, I was just using some old sample bottles I had purchased years ago. I routinely change the 0-30W and filter every 10,000 miles.

 

[Jay]

If what TooSlick says about OAI is true then I'm seriously considering changing labs. I really liked OAI because they do a lot of testing for the money and the data I've gotten from them has always been consistent and believable. But if the contract lab isn't using the same standards and methods as OAI and OAI is putting their name on the results-- thats BS! OAI had better get their contractor on the same page and they'd better do it quick because I need more kits.

 

[TexasTDI]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:
First, to pull the Amsoil chain this oi is supposed to go 35,000 miles in a mechanically sound engine. The wear metals and all indications are that this engine is sound so why the rapid depletion of the TBN? Again, my point is that Amsoil needs to fess up and say that 25-35,000 miles is only realistic in ideal circumstances and with analysis.

---

Amsoil claims 25k and 35k mile oil change intervals with their oil and oil filters being used. Gebo used an OEM Toyota oil filter instead of an Amsoil oil filter.

Gebo, start using an Amsoil oil filter and see if your oil analysis doesn't improve. I don't know what year your LS400 is, but the oil filter P/N should be SDF57.

[ December 29, 2002, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TexasTDI:

Originally posted by Spector:
[qb] Gebo used an OEM Toyota oil filter instead of an Amsoil oil filter.

Gebo, start using an Amsoil oil filter and see if your oil analysis doesn't improve. I don't know what year your LS400 is, but the oil filter P/N should be SDF57.

Chris Thornton
Amsoil Dealer #1098500

---

Not true IMO. The warranty says good for 35,000 if used in a mechanically sound engine and filter changed at 12500 miles or 6 months if Amsoil or if other filter in accordance with owners manual

Further, the wear metals were good, it it the TBN which is not really related to the wear metals that is low for this oil and the brand of filter should not have a bearing on that result! That SDF 57 is the same of all Toyota V6 since 1992, at least that is what is recommeded for mine as well and there is a larger one if you wish. Again, the filter will not affect these results IMO

 

[Patman]

Changing oil filters isn't really going to drastically improve the oil analysis results, and like Spector says how would a filter affect the TBN for instance? It simply won't.

Even Terry Dyson admits that he sees very little difference between a super fine filter and an OEM oil filter on the analysis reports he interprets. Those comments he made are part of the reason I am using the K&N oil filter, which isn't a super low micron filter or anything, just a well made high flowing filter.

[ December 19, 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Gebo]

I used the Amsoil SDF 34 (bigger oil filter)and the stock Toyota "Air" filter.

 

[buster]

As usual, Tooslick is making some excuse for the fact that the oil cannot go the distance that Amsoil claims. Amsoil reps need to live up to the fact that there oil is not as good as claimed. On every test in the forum, there is no way shape or form that Amsoil should be claiming the drains they do. How many of there cusotmers are going to run bypass filters? NONE. And who the hell is going to do oil analysis? Not your average customer. I'ts a joke. Amsoil has no where else to go simply bc there oil is not leaps and bounds better then any other and you can't buy any of it at convient auto store, therefore they make these ridiculous 25k/35k mile claims...I've yet to see Amsoil even hold a TBN > 7 after 10K miles. Spector is right.

[ December 28, 2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: buster ]