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How do the oil manufactures determine a baseline of 0w anything? In fact, what is 0w? There has to be science behind what 0w actually is
0w8?
- Thread starter 1978elcamino
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Cruising youtube and came across some videos with discussion of oil companies developing 0w8 oil. Any truth to this?
Yes and it will cause widespread engine destruction unless a 0w40 is used. It's meant to implode engines right after the warranty to encourage built in obsolescence.
Gee....this sounds like something I would post!
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Cruising youtube and came across some videos with discussion of oil companies developing 0w8 oil. Any truth to this?
Yes and it will cause widespread engine destruction unless a 0w40 is used. It's meant to implode engines right after the warranty to encourage built in obsolescence.
Gee....this sounds like something I would post!
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Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
How do the oil manufactures determine a baseline of 0w anything? In fact, what is 0w? There has to be science behind what 0w actually is
0W is defined in the J300 table I posted earlier. It must meet the CCS and MRV requirements for the designation.
How do the oil manufactures determine a baseline of 0w anything? In fact, what is 0w? There has to be science behind what 0w actually is
0W is defined in the J300 table I posted earlier. It must meet the CCS and MRV requirements for the designation.
Got dang water oil.
Used to run SAE50 in my first car and change it every 300 miles!
Used to run SAE50 in my first car and change it every 300 miles!
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Miller88
Got dang water oil.
Used to run SAE50 in my first car and change it every 300 miles!
I wish I could ask my dad what he ran in his Model T...bought it used from his brother for something like $14 when he was 12 years old. No such thing as a driver's license and insurance back then.
He said the first thing he did was jump in with a friend and drive it from Chicago to a lake up in WI where the family had a cabin...the top was shot, so the both used umbrellas.
I would guess they used something pretty close to crude oil, or at least the heavier fractions?
Got dang water oil.
Used to run SAE50 in my first car and change it every 300 miles!
I wish I could ask my dad what he ran in his Model T...bought it used from his brother for something like $14 when he was 12 years old. No such thing as a driver's license and insurance back then.
He said the first thing he did was jump in with a friend and drive it from Chicago to a lake up in WI where the family had a cabin...the top was shot, so the both used umbrellas.
I would guess they used something pretty close to crude oil, or at least the heavier fractions?
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Guess there are applications where they are willing to risk engine failure on a short run for that tiny bit of extra power....
It's much too thick for that. To get any extra power out of an oil that thick, it would require cutting it 50/50 with Kerosene. It's the main reason Royal Purple is working on a 0W-4 as we speak.
Guess there are applications where they are willing to risk engine failure on a short run for that tiny bit of extra power....
It's much too thick for that. To get any extra power out of an oil that thick, it would require cutting it 50/50 with Kerosene. It's the main reason Royal Purple is working on a 0W-4 as we speak.
Originally Posted by diyjake
Never seen or heard about it but sounds like a crazy idea to me.
You don't think that a car maker with a reputation to preserve just ordered up a batch of new oil filler caps and owner's manuals that say 0w-8 on a whim, do you? Yes, yes, I get the whole CAFE pressure thing, and that's undoubtedly a factor in this gradual move toward lower viscosity oils. That said, the car and engine makers have well educated, experienced engineers, AND you can be sure that they've carefully validated the use of these oils through extensive testing as well. This isn't to suggest that engineering changes don't ever have unintended consequences (just look at what's happening to Boeing and their 737 at the moment. . .).
Of course, one should not use an oil that's inappropriate for the application, whether that means too high or low a viscosity, or incorrect specifications. Using incorrect oil, especially nowadays with all the differing specs and viscosities, is what's really "crazy," not using a low vis oil, where that's what's been validated and is specified.
Never seen or heard about it but sounds like a crazy idea to me.
You don't think that a car maker with a reputation to preserve just ordered up a batch of new oil filler caps and owner's manuals that say 0w-8 on a whim, do you? Yes, yes, I get the whole CAFE pressure thing, and that's undoubtedly a factor in this gradual move toward lower viscosity oils. That said, the car and engine makers have well educated, experienced engineers, AND you can be sure that they've carefully validated the use of these oils through extensive testing as well. This isn't to suggest that engineering changes don't ever have unintended consequences (just look at what's happening to Boeing and their 737 at the moment. . .).
Of course, one should not use an oil that's inappropriate for the application, whether that means too high or low a viscosity, or incorrect specifications. Using incorrect oil, especially nowadays with all the differing specs and viscosities, is what's really "crazy," not using a low vis oil, where that's what's been validated and is specified.
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
. . .
I wish I could ask my dad what he ran in his Model T...
When I was in high school (the mid 1970s), my next-door neighbor had a restored Model-T. Neighborhood kids occasionally crowded around when he was tinkering with it. I'm nearly certain he used a 20w-50, though it may have been a straight 50wt. IIRC (and that WAS a long time ago...) I was surprised, since I'd never until then heard of oil of that high a viscosity. Apparently, the clearances in that engine were wide enough that it still consumed a lot of oil -- I remember him commenting about having to be careful about letting it get low. Still, it was a beautifully redone car. No, I would not recommend trying a 0w-8 (or 16 or 20...) in THAT engine!
. . .
I wish I could ask my dad what he ran in his Model T...
When I was in high school (the mid 1970s), my next-door neighbor had a restored Model-T. Neighborhood kids occasionally crowded around when he was tinkering with it. I'm nearly certain he used a 20w-50, though it may have been a straight 50wt. IIRC (and that WAS a long time ago...) I was surprised, since I'd never until then heard of oil of that high a viscosity. Apparently, the clearances in that engine were wide enough that it still consumed a lot of oil -- I remember him commenting about having to be careful about letting it get low. Still, it was a beautifully redone car. No, I would not recommend trying a 0w-8 (or 16 or 20...) in THAT engine!
Originally Posted by Propflux01
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
amazing how mineral oil thinned the gasoline has lubed millions of outboards, motorcycles etc.
Rod
Lemme know how many of those motorcycles went over 100k on a regular basis, and outboards the equivalent hours on the same......
I agree...and the fuel was the delivery system, not the lubricant per se...anyone whose pulled apart a two stroke knows that it's lubricated, and there's oil-oil in the rings and grooves.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
amazing how mineral oil thinned the gasoline has lubed millions of outboards, motorcycles etc.
Rod
Lemme know how many of those motorcycles went over 100k on a regular basis, and outboards the equivalent hours on the same......
I agree...and the fuel was the delivery system, not the lubricant per se...anyone whose pulled apart a two stroke knows that it's lubricated, and there's oil-oil in the rings and grooves.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Cruising youtube and came across some videos with discussion of oil companies developing 0w8 oil. Any truth to this?
Yes and it will cause widespread engine destruction unless a 0w40 is used. It's meant to implode engines right after the warranty to encourage built in obsolescence.
Sounds like we found our first volunteer to "test it out".
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Cruising youtube and came across some videos with discussion of oil companies developing 0w8 oil. Any truth to this?
Yes and it will cause widespread engine destruction unless a 0w40 is used. It's meant to implode engines right after the warranty to encourage built in obsolescence.
Sounds like we found our first volunteer to "test it out".
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
amazing how mineral oil thinned the gasoline has lubed millions of outboards, motorcycles etc.
Rod
Whole different engine design meant for low levels of lubrication ... needle and roller bearings are used instead of journal bearings.
amazing how mineral oil thinned the gasoline has lubed millions of outboards, motorcycles etc.
Rod
Whole different engine design meant for low levels of lubrication ... needle and roller bearings are used instead of journal bearings.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Cruising youtube and came across some videos with discussion of oil companies developing 0w8 oil. Any truth to this?
Great for "racing"! Just read the bottle.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/03/full-68869-30990-0w_8_racing_oil.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Racing a 1/4 mile at a time, and rebuilds after every mile of racing.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Cruising youtube and came across some videos with discussion of oil companies developing 0w8 oil. Any truth to this?
Great for "racing"! Just read the bottle.
Racing a 1/4 mile at a time, and rebuilds after every mile of racing.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
amazing how mineral oil thinned the gasoline has lubed millions of outboards, motorcycles etc.
BUT - most of the gasoline (& other solvents in the oil) has turned to a vapor by that point, leaving an oil that's actually pretty "thick" relatively speaking
amazing how mineral oil thinned the gasoline has lubed millions of outboards, motorcycles etc.
BUT - most of the gasoline (& other solvents in the oil) has turned to a vapor by that point, leaving an oil that's actually pretty "thick" relatively speaking
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Jumping to conclusions ... I'd say it's more along the lines of inadequate pilot training and skill, not a design problem.
That's not what I'm hearing:
https://www.680news.com/2019/03/12/pilots-have-reported-issues-in-us-with-new-boeing-jet-2/
Jumping to conclusions ... I'd say it's more along the lines of inadequate pilot training and skill, not a design problem.
That's not what I'm hearing:
https://www.680news.com/2019/03/12/pilots-have-reported-issues-in-us-with-new-boeing-jet-2/
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Jumping to conclusions ... I'd say it's more along the lines of inadequate pilot training and skill, not a design problem.
That's not what I'm hearing:
https://www.680news.com/2019/03/12/pilots-have-reported-issues-in-us-with-new-boeing-jet-2/
Obviously it all needs more investigation, and time will tell. But this stuff was reported a year or more ago so I'd bet Boeing engineers have been looking into it pretty seriously. The article also said: ""Best guess from me is airspeed fluctuation" due to a brief weather system overwhelming the plane's automation." Who knows if changes have been made since then to take some of the sensitivity of the system to weather out of the equation.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Jumping to conclusions ... I'd say it's more along the lines of inadequate pilot training and skill, not a design problem.
That's not what I'm hearing:
https://www.680news.com/2019/03/12/pilots-have-reported-issues-in-us-with-new-boeing-jet-2/
Obviously it all needs more investigation, and time will tell. But this stuff was reported a year or more ago so I'd bet Boeing engineers have been looking into it pretty seriously. The article also said: ""Best guess from me is airspeed fluctuation" due to a brief weather system overwhelming the plane's automation." Who knows if changes have been made since then to take some of the sensitivity of the system to weather out of the equation.
Originally Posted by yowps3
Meanwhile at Hyundai/Kia they now recommend to use 5W40 instead of 30 on their T-GDI motors
At least the engineers have the upper hand over the marketing dept at Hyundai/Kia
Taking a "hit" in CAFE/EPA fuel mileage numbers is a LOT cheaper than replacing 1xx,xxx+ engines under "warranty"
Meanwhile at Hyundai/Kia they now recommend to use 5W40 instead of 30 on their T-GDI motors
At least the engineers have the upper hand over the marketing dept at Hyundai/Kia
Taking a "hit" in CAFE/EPA fuel mileage numbers is a LOT cheaper than replacing 1xx,xxx+ engines under "warranty"
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