0W20 vs 0W30

[KGMtech]

I wonder about the OP, for that matter any innocent newbie making their first post on BITOG and then after 80 replies wondering if it will ever be safe to come out from under the couch?

The Romans had their Theatre with humans slaughtered by lions, BITOG has something newer but no less threatening for the amateur.

 

[oilcandave]

We all start out as amateurs in the beginning. BITOG is a good place to grow thick skin..one should learn what they can from here and pay no attrention to the rest except for the entertainment value.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Interesting that a 0w30 from BG is suitable for recommended oem weights. I saw the very thing at Penrite with similar wording.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Is it advantageous for my twin turbo V6 Infiniti Q60 to use a 0W30 instead of 0W20 ?

I don't know, but 0w30 makes me feel better. Even better would be going to a Amsoil, Redline,etc 0w30. Whatever you use...change it religiously.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

First remove the CAFE factor from their brains before having a conversation with the people and team that made the engine.

No you wouldn't. More pseudo-physics misunderstanding related to oil grade.

My problem with this is you (both) seem to be saying that, because CAFE exists, what the engineers do is irrelevant. That seems like a discredit to them. I know you both are advocates for thicker MOFT oils, and that's fine; I tend to agree. But.. Are you saying they make their oil choices, only on CAFE compliance?

Or are you perhaps saying that they put the full range of what's okay in the owner's manual...

 

[ZeeOSix]

My problem with this is you (both) seem to be saying that, because CAFE exists, what the engineers do is irrelevant. That seems like a discredit to them. I know you both are advocates for thicker MOFT oils, and that's fine; I tend to agree. But.. Are you saying they make their oil choices, only on CAFE compliance?

Or are you perhaps saying that they put the full range of what's okay in the owner's manual...

They only put a large range of acceptable viscosity in OMs of vehicles with the same engines sold in other countries, but spec the lowest possible in the USA vehicles. What's that tell you?

It also says that engines are not "designed around" a viscosity, except in the case of engines specifying 0W-16 or less, as has been mentioned often why in these discussions. If a Ford Coyote was "designed around" an oil viscosity, Ford wouldn't spec 5W-20 and 5W-50 for the same basic engine (with the same bearing clearances) depending on what chassis it was installed in and meant to be used for - ie, Mustang GT (5W-20) vs Boss 302 (5W-50). Engine bearings work well over a whole range of oil viscosity, and will have more wear protection with higher HTHS viscosity.

 

[dihi22]

Is it advantageous for my twin turbo V6 Infiniti Q60 to use a 0W30 instead of 0W20 ?

Mobil 1 5w-30 EP for the win

 

[dihi22]

Makes zero sense to use use a 20wt. oil IMHO. I am really surprised that many very knowledgeable people here recommend it. Certainly am not throwing stones at them.

As a mechanical engineer and knowing a thing or two about lubrication and bearings I vote 30 wt all day long. Even as a trivial example I cite the Subaru FA engine. It is available in Turbo and NA. The turbo requires 30 wt the NA is 20 wt. The internals are identical. The NA puts out 205HP the Turbo 250+ HP. I think most reasonable people would use 30 weight in the NA engine. Sowhy not use it in any engine that calls for 20 wt.

But to the OP: Absolutely use 30 wt. If you live in Alaska use 0W-30 if Arizonja 10W-30. Any other location 5W-30.In most places 5W might be a better choice than 0W. 0W "could" break down a bit more.

careful on 10w-30, its now a legacy grade. API has a lower spec on their tests for 10w-30 than 5w-30. 5W is still a "modern" oil, 10w-30 is now allowed to be of 90s quality and is good for lawn mowers, and oil companies save money on 10w-30 with cheaper base oils and less additives.

In general you want a dexos or manufacturer cert, or api sp is fine if its 0w-16 to 5w-30

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

careful on 10w-30, its now a legacy grade. API has a lower spec on their tests for 10w-30 than 5w-30. 5W is still a "modern" oil, 10w-30 is now allowed to be of 90s quality and is good for lawn mowers, and oil companies save money on 10w-30 with cheaper base oils and less additives.

In general you want a dexos or manufacturer cert, or api sp is fine if its 0w-16 to 5w-30

So you’re saying a 10w30 synthetic that carries an API SP designation like the Mobil 1 below is only as good as oil from the 90s? Mmkay.
https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/na-xx-mobil-1-10w-30

 

[Revving2Redline]

They only put a large range of acceptable viscosity in OMs of vehicles with the same engines sold in other countries, but spec the lowest possible in the USA vehicles. What's that tell you?

It also says that engines are not "designed around" a viscosity, except in the case of engines specifying 0W-16 or less, as has been mentioned often why in these discussions. If a Ford Coyote was "designed around" an oil viscosity, Ford wouldn't spec 5W-20 and 5W-50 for the same basic engine (with the same bearing clearances) depending on what chassis it was installed in and meant to be used for - ie, Mustang GT (5W-20) vs Boss 302 (5W-50). Engine bearings work well over a whole range of oil viscosity, and will have more wear protection with higher HTHS viscosity.

Many always tell me that thinner oil gets to the bearings FASTER but like in a oil change , there is going to be oil STILL in the bearing unless so phenomenon happened where someone hooked up a commercial machine and flushed everything. HOWEVER...a thicker oil will have the ability to stay longer in a bearing. Its two-fold but to get to the point where one would work and the other won't would take a seriously heavy wt.
I'm sure 5w20 works, but if your going to truly drive it like Steve McQueen or Memphis Raines with Elanor then I would definitely want a 30 or 40 at least.
RANT OVER. We are a disposable society and most people throw away stuff including cars because that's the lack of respect or appreciation people have. So, if the 5w20 is preferred its probably knowing thar in 150,000 miles it will be wrecked or thrown away and there would be no reason to worry about it. You really think car companies want your car to last forever? Most dont.

 

[4WD]

careful on 10w-30, its now a legacy grade. API has a lower spec on their tests for 10w-30 than 5w-30. 5W is still a "modern" oil, 10w-30 is now allowed to be of 90s quality and is good for lawn mowers, and oil companies save money on 10w-30 with cheaper base oils and less additives.

In general you want a dexos or manufacturer cert, or api sp is fine if its 0w-16 to 5w-30

The Mobil 1 EP 10W30 (on my shelf) is GF-6 and SP …
The 10W30 that came with my Chonda generator is only compliant with the fence on my dog kennel (how it got used)
I have Redline ester/PAO in the 457cc instead - also 10W30 …

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Now this is just a thought and only that...could it be possible that the high hths would also lead to better sealing/compression and actually be less "sluggish"? Second of all, I thought that hths usually went to a lower value and miles,heat,etc went longer.

Low VM loading too. My current ford 2L DI seems to want a thicker oil than the 710 cap writing. The QS 10W30 surprisingly provided better low end chugging torque around town with the AT set at "eco" where the unit runs between 1500 and 2200 rpm. This was also confirmed with a LTFE improvement. And by LT read that as across the complete OCI.

On most of our other 4 cyl that scoffed at running a 30 grade in hypermiling commuter mode, they ALL had better "perceived" peak torque and upper RPM HP i.e., 4500-6500 rpm
and general "happiness" running near redline with the 30 grade. A "Cannonball" mode oil grade.

I just read the engine and give it what it wants. My Bullitt and many others just didn't want a thirty.

To your second point I don't grasp what you are stating there, though you were conversing with zed06

- Ken

 

[ARCOgraphite]

careful on 10w-30, its now a legacy grade. API has a lower spec on their tests for 10w-30 than 5w-30. 5W is still a "modern" oil, 10w-30 is now allowed to be of 90s quality and is good for lawn mowers, and oil companies save money on 10w-30 with cheaper base oils and less additives.

In general you want a dexos or manufacturer cert, or api sp is fine if its 0w-16 to 5w-30

My beloved QSFS 10w30 is API SP-RC on the Donut and ILSAC GF-6A.

it also has a pour point of -65F

It's special sauce. A special gift from Shell. Guaranteed to hunt and kill most other ILSAC 5w30.

 

[4WD]

I had previously listed the things GM changed between my 2010 and my 2018 5,3L before the switch to 0W20 and what features already supported the move … some folks here act like it’s all a paperwork exercise …
Having said that - it’s easy enough to reach the end of warranty and bump viscosity then …

 

[kschachn]

careful on 10w-30, its now a legacy grade. API has a lower spec on their tests for 10w-30 than 5w-30. 5W is still a "modern" oil, 10w-30 is now allowed to be of 90s quality and is good for lawn mowers, and oil companies save money on 10w-30 with cheaper base oils and less additives.

In general you want a dexos or manufacturer cert, or api sp is fine if its 0w-16 to 5w-30

Are you referring to some specific requirement in API 1509? Can you reference which one(s) please?

 

[Al]

My problem with this is you (both) seem to be saying that, because CAFE exists, what the engineers do is irrelevant. That seems like a discredit to them. I know you both are advocates for thicker MOFT oils, and that's fine; I tend to agree. But.. Are you saying they make their oil choices, only on CAFE compliance?

Or are you perhaps saying that they put the full range of what's okay in the owner's manual...

I would bet every cent I own that if the design team of a given engine speced for 0W-20 were asked whether their engine would run significantly longer (free of oil related failures) using a 30 wt. vs 20 weight they would ALL answer to the affirmative.

Will 20 wt do the job? "of course". Will 30 wt dp a better job? "of course". I find it hard that knowledgeable care to argue this point.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I would bet every cent I own that if the design team of a given engine speced for 0W-20 were asked whether their engine would run significantly longer (free of oil related failures) using a 30 wt. vs 20 weight they would ALL answer to the affirmative.

Will 20 wt do the job? "of course". Will 30 wt dp a better job? "of course". I find it hard that knowledgeable care to argue this point.

Example - Ford engineers went back to 5W-30 in the Coyote used in the Mustang and F-150 ... that's a lot of engines giving up CAFE credits. Now why would they do that? Apparently 5W-20 wasn't "making the grade" so to speak.

 

[PimTac]

Example - Ford engineers went back to 5W-30 in the Coyote used in the Mustang and F-150 ... that's a lot of engines giving up CAFE credits. Now why would they do that? Apparently 5W-20 wasn't "making the grade" so to speak.

Or the engine wasn’t up to par so to speak.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Many always tell me that thinner oil gets to the bearings FASTER but like in a oil change ,

Those are the many that don't understand how a PD pump force fed oiling system works. Pump moves the same volume per rev. If the pump isn't in relief then the oil gets to the force fed components just as fast. Only time this becomes a concern is during super cold starts where engine cranking and pumpability is borderline and the pump can't pump and/or is in relief.

there is going to be oil STILL in the bearing unless so phenomenon happened where someone hooked up a commercial machine and flushed everything. HOWEVER...a thicker oil will have the ability to stay longer in a bearing.

Possibly could give a few more seconds of protection after doing an oil change and getting the whole oiling system purged of any air during the initial "dry start".

 

[ZeeOSix]

Or the engine wasn’t up to par so to speak.

Nah, Ford has speced thicker than 5W-20 for the same basic engine (like the GT track pack or Boss 302 example) when it's expected use is more severe. I think they've finally realized (probably with field & warranty data) that 5W-20 isn't really that ideal for everyday use in that engine after specing 5W-20 for many years. Too many driving variables in those vehicles to live on the edge of HTHS/MOFT. Guess those engineers gave in to Tribology instead of CAFE, like it should be.