0w-8 vs 0w-30

[kschachn]

The various disaster scenarios that get concocted as to why these engines must use the recommended grade are sometimes humorous. A couple of things, if that were really the case then wouldn't there be dire warnings in the owner's manual saying that it's absolutely essential to use that grade? And what about the same model, same engine, same oil pump, same ECU being sold in other countries that recommend sometimes vastly higher grades? Wouldn't those grenade?

And what about here in the upper Midwest, or even worse in northern Minnesota during the winter? When we start an engine and often throughout operation the oil never reaches operating temperature. Are we grenading engines here at a furious rate? No.

And personally, I've used every grade from a -20 to a -30 to a -40 and even for a while a -50 in my Tiguan. And yet I'm over 100K with no insufficient flow as far as I know. Should I expect it to happen? If so, when? The oil is flowing just fine. And when I asked my dealership to use 504 00 oil instead of 508 00, were they deliberately sabotaging their product?

The whole thing is ridiculous on many levels besides the silly mechanics of the notion. There'd be dead engines everywhere.

 

[Plumb Bob]

or even worse in northern Minnesota during the winter?

In a cold, northern Minnesota winter, the viscosity of Mobil 1 0w-8 falls between that of Glue and Mayonnaise... And the engines are happy with it

 

[tired]

In a cold, northern Minnesota winter, the viscosity of Mobil 1 0w-8 falls between that of Glue and Mayonnaise... And the engines are happy with it

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Aren't both units in cSt? Am I missing something? Wouldn't it be between cream and vegetable oil?

 

[Azimuth]

Aren't both units in cSt? Am I missing something? Wouldn't it be between cream and vegetable oil?

I think he meant at -40C.

 

[Sacredheals]

I have used 0W40 in my Camry Hybrid with the A25A for a hot minute and it's been great..

I do plan on dropping down a grade to 0W30 with HPL I may use a different grade even 0W20 with it since the gas mileage will be a tiny bit better and I doubt HPL 0W20 is any worse than the 0W40 I use in it now on wear.. But no unless you're in one of the coldest parts of the earth 0W30 is going to be perfectly fine. Especially if it's a non Hybrid I'd assume there'd be 0 issues even with something thicker like a 50 weight.

My only concern with my car is it being a Hybrid in the middle of winter and it wants to turn off all the time cus I don't use heat.

 

[edyvw]

what do you think guys did Toyota think that when engine hits 200,000k that 4th owner might pick up some 10W40 to slow down probable consumption?
I think they did.

 

[ATex7239]

I have used 0W40 in my Camry Hybrid with the A25A for a hot minute and it's been great..

I do plan on dropping down a grade to 0W30 with HPL I may use a different grade even 0W20 with it since the gas mileage will be a tiny bit better and I doubt HPL 0W20 is any worse than the 0W40 I use in it now on wear.. But no unless you're in one of the coldest parts of the earth 0W30 is going to be perfectly fine. Especially if it's a non Hybrid I'd assume there'd be 0 issues even with something thicker like a 50 weight.

My only concern with my car is it being a Hybrid in the middle of winter and it wants to turn off all the time cus I don't use heat.

For every one A25A using 40 I’d say there probably are hundreds, if not thousands, using 20 or 30 since these are more common. And all are going right along without issues.

You could close your eyes and throw a baseball at your local Walmart oil aisle, only using whatever you hit, and the engine wouldn’t know the difference.

This whole viscosity thing is really a non-issue.

 

[Propflux01]

Rods tend to fly out the bottom. Steel toe shoes (metatarsals preferred) may also be called for.

Actually, most fly out the side. I think knee pads would suffice even better.

 

[Sacredheals]

The only thing I have against that is delivery driving like I do. Letting the car sit shut off for 5-25 minutes atleast a few times a day all day isn’t great for the engine with heavier weight oil when it’s 0f out.

 

[JavierH19]

The only thing I have against that is delivery driving like I do. Letting the car sit shut off for 5-25 minutes atleast a few times a day all day isn’t great for the engine with heavier weight oil when it’s 0f out.

I've changed my oil near night after letting it sit for just over 2 hours in the cool evening in the low 60's when I injured my hand once and had to one hand everything so to make it easier on myself I did it cold and there was still plenty of heat in the oil but the oil wasn't too hot. Oil isn't not gonna cool down much in 25 minutes in 0f weather unless it's extremely windy dissipating heat much faster than with little to no wind.

In 0f weather I don't see myself shutting a vehicle off that I'm gonna get back in a while later since I still want it to be warm even if it's mine. Do you have your own delivery business? If it's a company vehicle I'm letting it run. If it was mine maybe I'd shut it off if it's going to take more than 30 minutes though I've checked my fuel consumption in gph and my 6.0 v8 only burns about 0.5 gallons per hour idling so that would be 1/4 a gallon or 60 cents at $2.4 a gallon for a half hour of idling which isn't much.

Higher grade oil runs a little hotter than lower grade oil and the density is also higher and I think higher density oil retains more heat and heats up back again faster.

 

[JavierH19]

For every one A25A using 40 I’d say there probably are hundreds, if not thousands, using 20 or 30 since these are more common. And all are going right along without issues.

You could close your eyes and throw a baseball at your local Walmart oil aisle, only using whatever you hit, and the engine wouldn’t know the difference.

This whole viscosity thing is really a non-issue.

If one changes very frequently like 3k miles I'm inclined to agree. Threads have talked about how it's the hardcore 3k or less oil changers that have their engines even the known fragile ones last a very long time well beyond the rest even with thin oil if it's changed super frequently. Few engines badly need thicker like the ford 5.4 with insufficient oiling to rocker on cylinder 5 I believe and I think low hot idle oil pressure causing vvt issues on the early 5.0 dohc and any other engine. But if I was forced to use thin oil I would but I'd be dumping it out at 2-3k like clockwork.

 

[Patman]

If one changes very frequently like 3k miles I'm inclined to agree. Threads have talked about how it's the hardcore 3k or less oil changers that have their engines even the known fragile ones last a very long time well beyond the rest even with thin oil if it's changed super frequently. Few engines badly need thicker like the ford 5.4 with insufficient oiling to rocker on cylinder 5 I believe and I think low hot idle oil pressure causing vvt issues on the early 5.0 dohc and any other engine. But if I was forced to use thin oil I would but I'd be dumping it out at 2-3k like clockwork.

I fail to see the logic here, the thinner oils are generally going to hold their viscosity better, as long as fuel dilution isn’t involved. So there’s really no reason to dump it at only 3k.

 

[JavierH19]

I fail to see the logic here, the thinner oils are generally going to hold their viscosity better, as long as fuel dilution isn’t involved. So there’s really no reason to dump it at only 3k.

Not my words. I'll try to find the threads. I think it's fine abrasive particle accumulation even the best oil filters can't remove without a bypass system. Iirc larger particles can be broken down finer and finer by the mechanical action in the engine and that very fine abrasive builds up and is worst for things like chain links. Fragile timing chains like in early 3.6 usually wear except the ones clinebarger has seen.

There's gotta be more threads but I found these.

Thread 'Motor oil choices for optimum timing chain life'

Jul 2, 2021

This is my (probably very incomplete) summary of a bunch of threads here on BITOG regarding optimum practice for longest timing chain life.

Desirable Properties of Oil:
- As thick as possible for hot operating conditions (i.e. xW-40 > xW-30 > xW-20)
- As thin as possible for cold-weather starts (i.e. 0W-x > 5W-x > 10W-x > 20W-x)
- As little viscosity spread as possible (i.e. 5W-20 or 10w30 > 0W-20 or 0w30 or 0W-40 or 5w30 or 20W-50)

These properties are somewhat contradictory - an oil that's both thin enough for cold weather and thick enough for hot weather will have a large viscosity...

• Number_35
• Replies: 56
• Forum: Mechanical/Maintenance Forum

J

Thread 'Would a C3 Oil Protect a Timing Chain Better Than a C2 Oil?'

Mar 2, 2025

Hi all.

As the title says really. For vehicles that are known to be prone to timing chain issues, would it be worth switching from the often recommended C2 oil to a C3 oil? I ask this as the requirement for C2 oil HTHS is only a minimum HTHS of 2.9 whereas the C3 oil minimum is 3.6.

Do you think a change in HTHS would actually benefit preventing timing chain wear?

Cheers!

• jtay2024
• Replies: 42
• Forum: Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Vehicles

• 

C

Thread 'Euro Oils Timing Chain Protection ?'

Jul 31, 2024

Do current Euro oils have the same level of timing chain protection (or better) as do SP / D1 Gen 3 domestic oils call out ?

• ChrisD46
• Replies: 11
• Forum: European and Import Motor Oils

• 

 

[41an]

For some reason I run my 2018 Honda Fit GK5 (L15 engine) with Honda Ultra Next oil for more than 7 years and around 70k miles. Compared with those who use 0w30, I get much better engine condition and far better MPG. Even at a poor design that my 5MT gearbox made it 4k rpm at 75mph, it still works perfect. The only thing is, those thin oils such as Ultra Next themselves does not last long. You will certainly feel the difference after oil change @ 3k miles. I always do it @3k.

 

[TomYoung]

A used oil analysis will not show you much, if this is a short-term vehicle for whatever years less than 10, use whatever. If you want to keep this vehicle for longer than 10 years, go with Valvoline Restore and Protect. I would suggest 5W-30!

Just a gentle note to say that there is nothing about this brand that offers any known longevity benefits when compared to the many excellent mid priced synthetic brands available. It is worshipped by quite a few on BITOG, but its “bag” is cleaning out dirty engines after a few oil changes….

 

[kschachn]

For some reason I run my 2018 Honda Fit GK5 (L15 engine) with Honda Ultra Next oil for more than 7 years and around 70k miles. Compared with those who use 0w30, I get much better engine condition and far better MPG. Even at a poor design that my 5MT gearbox made it 4k rpm at 75mph, it still works perfect. The only thing is, those thin oils such as Ultra Next themselves does not last long. You will certainly feel the difference after oil change @ 3k miles. I always do it @3k.

Getting a better engine condition and feeling a difference are certainly laudable goals.

 

[STMech]

I would wear a helmet, preferably one with Kevlar protection. When the engine explodes due to 0W30, you don't want a flying rod bearing to hit your head.

Maybe we all need a helmet to protect us from precious entitled BITOG know-it-alls!

Sorry, I left out “smug”

 

[edyvw]

Maybe we all need a helmet to protect us from precious entitled BITOG know-it-alls!

Sorry, I left out “smug”

We all need protection from those who expect know it all’s to do their google search.