0W-40 Mobil 1 reviews?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

That's too bad. A lot of I/O's and inboards use bulk PCMO and the engines outlast the useful life of the boat.


In almost 40 years of boating, I've never seen ANYONE use bulk PCMO in a marine engine.

It's obviously a very different world up your way.


It sounds like it.

My grandfather would typically buy cases of whatever was on sale and brand-name. Be it Valvoline, Castrol....etc.

We've been on the Muskoka lakes since the 1860's.

Most leisure boaters/cottagers just grab what's on sale at Canadian Tire.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
many will read this as a biased Post of course. It is however meant to be a statement of facts!

1 - Porsche have used Mobil 1 0W-40 as THE Factory fill since January 2001. It still is! Dealer practiced Factory endorsed OCIs were - until the DI engines were introduced for MY08 engines - two years of 20kkms (12.5k miles). It is now 12 months and a similar distance

2 - A study of Porsche TISBs during that time have shown that there are no lubricant related issues with any Porsche engine family. Engine life has been exceptional in these cases

3 - Mobil 1 0W-40 is the only Factory endorsed lubricant to be used in the Cayenne twin turbo. It has been this way since the vehicle's introduction

4 - Mobil 1 0W-40 is used in the current Factory race cars and as well is endorsed by the Factory race Engineers I have been with

Some have been with Porsche as race car Engineers since the 1960s! They do NOT use Mobil 1 0W-40 in their old air-cooled engines although many people do

5 - Much of the above applies to Mercedes Benz too. In OZ the average OCI is around 17kkms (11k miles)

6 - I do not know of any lubricant related Warranty issues in either Benz (and AMG) or Porsche engines since using M 1 0W-40

7 - The ExxonMobil Add. Pack supplier's Engineers I have spoken with also endorse Mobil 1 0W-40 as being a wonderful and trouble free product

Some millions of engines Worldwide use it and many have done from new. I have yet to see any substantiated proof of a lubricant related engine failure where Mobil 1 0W-40 is a recommended product. This applies to excessive wear, reduced engine life or "unusual" component wear. I know of a number of engines with around 600kkms (375k miles) without a major component replacement

Mobil 1 0W-40 has the runs on the board - Worldwide!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
TeeDub - Some Manufacturer's Approvals cover petrol engines that are either turboed, have twin turbos or are supercharged. These Approval Tests are usually extensions of the ACEA Test protocols or have been devised in-house to suit a specific engine family (or families)

Of particular interest to Porsche for instance is the foaming issue. Many engines have scavange oil pumps (3 or more oil pumps) and dry sumps and this is a specific issue that also affects viscosity (permanent shear in particular). Most Porsche engines do NOT have roller valve actuators but they do have hydraulic lifters and electronic valve timing controls which are sensitive to oil thickening (and engine performance)

The CF API rating also covers the turbo and shearing points I believe

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't see anyone dismissing Mobil 1 0w-40 here, Doug (although I'm not going to reread the entire thread). It's a superb oil ..as the faith of the OEM's that spec it surely evidences. They wouldn't specify it if it didn't work. My comments were, more or less, stating that if you didn't need to meet all of those requirements, other oils could surely be used and perform as well.

Here's a comical oddity. Mobil 1 0w-40 has a A3/B3 A3/B4 rating ..which are:

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.
A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and direct injection diesel engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

While not being able to meet 0w spec's (and a few more, I'm sure) something like Delvac 1 would surely perform well in these same engines ..but it only has the "E" ratings.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Gary - Of course I agree with you

When I sought to use Delvac 1 5W-40 in my Boxster, Porsche queried the reason (not Officially Approved)

I said that I had had many years amd millions of miles experience with the product. They consulted with Mobil (who obviously know me) and permission was granted under the Factory Warranty. Why did I use it when the Add. Pack suppliers, Mobil's Engineers, and Porsche said to use Mobil 1 0W-40? Well, previous experience, and the desire to have a HTHS viscosity above 4 in the M96 engine really

Gary, in hindsight, and even though I live in the Tropics I was wrong - I now believe I should have simply used Mobil 1 0W-40
In this application it is a better product!

People also forget that Delvac lubricants are Commercial lubricants. They are sold into a world of "hard nosed" Commercial users (but you know the type aleady). To have Delvac 1 5W-40 tested to meet the "car" specs would be a costly waste. Instead I believe that it is sold under other Mobil 1 names (perhaps with a minor "tweak") that do have ACEA "car" Licensing and touch a much broader marketplace

And I compliment you again as ever - you do not "rubbish" a competitor's products but seek to know the "why" and "how" of it all - as I seek to do

 

[buster]

Look at it this way, if Porsche wanted a more shear stable oil or had issues with this oil, Mobil could have easily made or re-bottled Delvac 1 and made a 5w40 Porsche oil. They haven't done that. It's not that other oils are not better in some areas, but rather the 0w-40 does what it's supposed to do and can be accessed globally. You won't see deposits, and other types of wear through a $30 ICP report either btw.

The whole point of have testing and standards is so you know what you are getting and whether the product is ok to use in a particular application. It does not mean it's the best, but at least you know it meets a the test. Some oils such as Amsoil may greatly exceed the test requirements. They are the only boutique oil I would ever trust in a very expensive car.

Quote:
Porsche 996FL Engine test. This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 µm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method. Several mechanics told me that they were relying on “their own testing” to choose an oil. None of these mechanics showed me that their method came close to matching what Porsche does: running dozens of oils through the same 203-hour test, and comparing the results. This test has been designed by Porsche to guarantee the availability of test-proven oils for all Porsche since model year 1973: the letter (attached) given to oil manufacturers specifies that date. This oil testing procedure exists specifically to avoid the wear cam problems created by the fiasco of ILSAC GF-4 being recommended in Porsche by some distributors. Why not use the Porsche testing to


So, if you are so confident that you could possibly know that an oil that doesn't clearly state it passed this test, or that your $30 ICP report will tell you all of those things, go for it.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Buster - As a matter of interest Porsche in NA carried out an extensive UOA programme around 2001-2003 through their Dealerships. Any M96 engine failures were the subject of an engine exchange programme - the "new" engines having been shipped from Germany

No lubricant changes were every suggested

Further, Porsche's Approved lubricants TISB List shows;

8 lubricants;
2x 0W-40
5x 5W-40
1x 5W-50 (the only SAE50 on the List)

4 are Mobil 1 products;
2x 0W-40
2x 5W-40

If Porsche wanted to use a Mobil 1 5W-40 product they have two to chose from plus three others that are probably Group 3 semi-synthetics

 

[nascarnation]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead

The next time some lemming uses the lame "factory-fill" argument to extol the qualitative performance of an oil, I think I'm going to throw up.


Forget the Mobil then, go with Pepto Bismol in your sump.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Volvohead - You said this:
"The next time some lemming uses the lame "factory-fill" argument to extol the qualitative performance of an oil, I think I'm going to throw up."

Please do!

I for one an NOT a lemming - rudeness does NOT win friends on this or any other Forum

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
And I compliment you again as ever - you do not "rubbish" a competitor's products but seek to know the "why" and "how" of it all - as I seek to do


As always, Doug, it's a pleasure to see your contributions on the board. Your broad and in depth knowledge/experience base have given me much insight into a great many things.

 

[Volvohead]

I'll just use what works best for a particular application. For my engines, that is usually something other than the 0w-40. It is not the most shear stable oil if a 40 is genuinely desired. That is no knock on it, as it is a fine oil.

But I won't choose any oil simply because someone uses it as factory fill.

This is probably the most backhanded endorsement I've heard yet for the 0w-40, from Terry Dyson:

. . . the Mobil 1 0w40 which is still one of few Mobil 1 products that can perform reasonably well.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post981168

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary


I for one an NOT a lemming - rudeness does NOT win friends on this or any other Forum


Not trying to be rude, but what does anything you proclaimed about Porsche and MB testing and approvals of 0w-40 have to do with the OP's specific application, which is a field-built Twin Turbo ZO6 engine that the builder recommends a 40 or 50 weight oil for?

And that was my original point. Just because some lubricant has a laundry-list of OEM approvals and endorsements doesn't anoint it the best performing choice for every application.

I'm sure the 0w-40 will be fine in his engine. But there are likely better choices than 0w-40 in this specific instance.

That you took my admitted "rant" personally, even though it preceded your own post, seems a bit presumptuous.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Volvohead - Since joining this Forum - and for around 45 years before - I for one have been involved with Factory fill lubricants

I have also seen the results of dismissing the Technical arguments for the use of Factory Approved lubricants. Warranty tells many stories

It is also true that the Factory fill lubricants may NOT be the same formulation as the after market similar branded product. For obvious reasons

In any event for the others that have referred to Factory fill lubricants in this Thread and elsewhere I expect none are "lemmings" - that's why they contribute here!

The thread is titled "0W-40 Mobil 1 reviews" - some of us have attempted to review the product as requested!

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
The thread is titled "0W-40 Mobil 1 reviews"


Doug,

That may be the title of the thread. But that is not the body of the OP's inquiry, which described a particular custom engine build and asked of 0w-40, "Just figured I'd ask what you guys thought of this product. Is it a 'thick' 40 weight or a 'thin' 40 weight?"

In his application, it is rapidly neither. And his builder says to use at least a 40 weight. That is his "factory approved lubricant" specification.

So is throwing out all the anecdotal manufacturer approvals of the product REALLY helping the gentleman?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Volvohead - Oh well then we'll just leave the reviews to you then!

 

[Audi Junkie]

I understand that Prell Shampoo does well in the 4-Ball test. Soemthing to do with the phosphate content. Maybe we should use that.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
AJ - Sorry it is not of a sustainable SAE40 or SAE50 viscosity!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Volvohead - Since joining this Forum - and for around 45 years before - I for one have been involved with Factory fill lubricants

I have also seen the results of dismissing the Technical arguments for the use of Factory Approved lubricants. Warranty tells many stories

It is also true that the Factory fill lubricants may NOT be the same formulation as the after market similar branded product. For obvious reasons

In any event for the others that have referred to Factory fill lubricants in this Thread and elsewhere I expect none are "lemmings" - that's why they contribute here!

The thread is titled "0W-40 Mobil 1 reviews" - some of us have attempted to review the product as requested!


Doug:

Would you recommend something along the lines of an HDEO like Rotella or Delvac 1 for this application? I think of the insane cylinder pressures and turbo heat that the large diesels go through and figure that's why these oils typically yield such fantastic UOA numbers.

I have ZERO experience with the RLI stuff. Sounds like Terry REALLY likes it and has had fantastic results with it.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
OVERKILL - As the Owner says it is not a continuous WOT application (or some such moderate comment). This is a good clue

If it was mine I would use either Mobil 1 0W-40 or Delvac 1 5W-40 - both should eat the application as the Poster outlines

I have kept my supercharged Benz on Mobil 1 0W-40 even though I could have used Delvac 1 5W-40 - I still have a current stock

Of course Rotella T 5W-40 is an excellent lubricant too and would do well in this application as would some of the Amsoil products. However, the Poster asked the question of Mobil 1 0W-40

As most who know me on here will know, I have been a user of HD (HDEO) lubricants in petrol engines since the late 1950s!

At least you can purchase Mobil 1 5W-50 in Canada - it has been Mobil's largest seller here in OZ I believe for many years - it's a great product too

 

[TeeDub]

Getting back to the original question...

I think the Mobil 1, 0w-40 is just fine for this application for mild to cold weather use. I'd probably run the Amsoil 0w-30/SSO in this motor under those conditions, which is an even thinner ACEA A5/B5 product. However since the engine builder is specing a 40wt or 50wt, the Mobil 1, 15w-50 (which is an excellent product), or Delvac 1, 5w-40 is probably a better choice for the six warmest months of the year. Again, I'd run one of the beefier Amsoil xw-40 products (probably their 10w-40 Marine Oil or 10w-40 MC oil) for warm weather, given the engine builders recommendations.

As for the tired Porsche argument, those engines hold about 9-10 quarts of oil (even the Boxsters), so I'd hardly consider that a challenging street application. By contrast something like a Subaru STI with a 4.5 qt sump and 300 Hp beats up the oil much worse than any stock Porsche I've ever seen. I can tell you that the STI will absolutely shear any 0w-40 in several thousand miles. The new 2.0L, VW/Audi FSI engine is another small turbo that's terribly hard on oil, as the used oil analysis consistently indicate.

This really has nothing to do with Mobil, it's simply that it's impossible to make a really shear stable 0w-40 with todays base stock technology and sell it at a price anyone is willing to pay. The reason why you seldom see problems with this shearing is that these engines work just fine with a "thick" 30wt, which is essentially what all these 0w-40's really are in terms of HT/HS viscosity.