0W-20 vs 5W-20

[rraiderr]

Since they are both 20W oils why does Toyota make such a big stink that you have to run 0W-20 and not 5W-20 in the new FJ

They even go as far to say if you run 5w-20 it needs to be replaced with 0W-20.

How much real world difference is there between the 5W to 20W oil.

They are both 20 weight when hot.

Thanks

 

[sir1900]

This topic has been beaten to death but in the interest of answering your one question:

Real world difference? Negligible. The difference will be the flow rate at cold startup and a few MPG. The claim is that in 0W vs 5W you will see the savings in fuel, but one must factor in the cost of the oil over time.

Not exactly sure of your location, in the US, the savings may make sense. In Canada, perhaps less so seeing the cost of synthetic is double that of conventional (regular price vs regular price)

Do stick with the 0W to maintain the warranty.

 

[jrtribology]

I never have really understood the concept of 0W weight oil and probably wouldn't use it unless I was in a place like Barrow, Alaska, or upper Siberia where it's negative -34ºF

 

[crashtestdummy]

Read all the chapters on this article by Dr Haas.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

It will give you a better understanding.

 

[The Critic]

Supposedly on some models, the ECU programming has taken 0w20 into account and therefore, the VVT is programmed to operate accordingly.

One of my buddies who is a shop foreman at a major dealership says that he has seen start-up issues when 0w20 is not used.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: sir1900
This topic has been beaten to death but in the interest of answering your one question:

Real world difference? Negligible.


AGREE!

No need for these kinds of topics to get spread out into 10 or more pages.This happens wayy too much on these boards lately.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Supposedly on some models, the ECU programming has taken 0w20 into account and therefore, the VVT is programmed to operate accordingly.

One of my buddies who is a shop foreman at a major dealership says that he has seen start-up issues when 0w20 is not used.


That's total nonsense, since 5W20 is often much thinner than 0W20 depending on ambient temps--and some 0W20's are thicker than some 5W20's at operating temperatures. Your buddy should stop spreading misinformation.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Supposedly on some models, the ECU programming has taken 0w20 into account and therefore, the VVT is programmed to operate accordingly.

One of my buddies who is a shop foreman at a major dealership says that he has seen start-up issues when 0w20 is not used.


That's total nonsense, since 5W20 is often much thinner than 0W20 depending on ambient temps--and some 0W20's are thicker than some 5W20's at operating temperatures. Your buddy should stop spreading misinformation.


I'm personally skeptical, but this guy has never led me wrong...ever. He did say that he had one Gen III Prius in that had an issue with start-up rattle/noise, and it turned out that the last oil service had been done with 5w30 instead of 0w20; installing 0w20 cured the problem.

 

[JOD]

I get programming engine management systems around oil weight--but they're both 20W oils--and the 0W number doesn't relate to viscosity at typical temperatures. Regardless of his past recommendations, he's off base on this one.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: jrtribology
I never have really understood the concept of 0W weight oil and probably wouldn't use it unless I was in a place like Barrow, Alaska, or upper Siberia where it's negative -34ºF

Or in the middle of the Canadian prairies. Once January comes about -35 is a common morning temperature,it gets even colder than that in February.
A member can get the tgmo cheap,so that's going to be the next sump fill on the hemi.
To answer the OP's question in the real world I don't think there is much difference unless you experience severe cold temp's,as far as vvt goes I've read in many forums that some engines are sensitive and others aren't. If you have an engine that turns out to be sensitive then run what they tell you to run. If your under warrantee I'd just follow the oem's guidelines,if there is an issue(which I doubt)do you really need the headache fighting with them.

 

[tig1]

I use 0-20 year round. This last summer set records with many days well over 100F. I have seen no oil degradation(that I can detect) do to the high heat and or the 10K OCIs I do.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: tig1
I use 0-20 year round. This last summer set records with many days well over 100F. I have seen no oil degradation(that I can detect) do to the high heat and or the 10K OCIs I do.

I wish we could get you to do just one uoa. Your maintenance routine is consistent,always with the same oil. I'd love to see what kind of info we could glean from your service schedule.
It's obviously working since your engines haven't dissolved yet.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: sir1900
This topic has been beaten to death but in the interest of answering your one question:

Real world difference? Negligible. The difference will be the flow rate at cold startup and a few MPG. The claim is that in 0W vs 5W you will see the savings in fuel, but one must factor in the cost of the oil over time.

Not exactly sure of your location, in the US, the savings may make sense. In Canada, perhaps less so seeing the cost of synthetic is double that of conventional (regular price vs regular price)

Do stick with the 0W to maintain the warranty.

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: sir1900
This topic has been beaten to death but in the interest of answering your one question:

Real world difference? Negligible.


AGREE!

No need for these kinds of topics to get spread out into 10 or more pages.This happens wayy too much on these boards lately.

Did every one answer it the way you guys did previously or was it ever mentioned that one reason for mandating 0W might be simple, smart assurance of a minimum quality oil being used over a maximum interval.

In this case, the worst 0W is typically of MUCH higher quality than worst 5W. How many no-name 0W oils have you guys seen?

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Supposedly on some models, the ECU programming has taken 0w20 into account and therefore, the VVT is programmed to operate accordingly.

One of my buddies who is a shop foreman at a major dealership says that he has seen start-up issues when 0w20 is not used.


That's total nonsense, since 5W20 is often much thinner than 0W20 depending on ambient temps--and some 0W20's are thicker than some 5W20's at operating temperatures. Your buddy should stop spreading misinformation.


I'm personally skeptical, but this guy has never led me wrong...ever. He did say that he had one Gen III Prius in that had an issue with start-up rattle/noise, and it turned out that the last oil service had been done with 5w30 instead of 0w20; installing 0w20 cured the problem.



Was the oil filter replaced in each of these instances, as well?

Comparing 5w30 to 0W-20 isn't quite the same as 5W-20 to 0W-20.

Hydraulically operated systems can't be THAT sensitive to viscosity. It just doesn't make sense that oil wouldn't flow through and pressurize the applicable mechanism as soon as the solenoid energizes.

 

[[email protected]]

Im going to be draining the Mobil 1 5w30 out of my Prius at the 6000 mile mark (I know, premature but thats a different topic) and going with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20.

I aint skeered

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Did every one answer it the way you guys did previously or was it ever mentioned that one reason for mandating 0W might be simple, smart assurance of a minimum quality oil being used over a maximum interval.

In this case, the worst 0W is typically of MUCH higher quality than worst 5W. How many no-name 0W oils have you guys seen?


Without risking turning this thread into another 20 pages, I will say that recently we are seeing more 0W mandated by manufacturers in their newer vehicles. Give it time. No-name 0W oils are just around the corner.

Not bashing the use of 0W, but the truth is, this topic HAS been beaten to death.

 

[bar1]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Supposedly on some models, the ECU programming has taken 0w20 into account and therefore, the VVT is programmed to operate accordingly.

One of my buddies who is a shop foreman at a major dealership says that he has seen start-up issues when 0w20 is not used.


I'm personally skeptical, but this guy has never led me wrong...ever. He did say that he had one Gen III Prius in that had an issue with start-up rattle/noise, and it turned out that the last oil service had been done with 5w30 instead of 0w20; installing 0w20 cured the problem.


Toyota recommends 5w30 for that Prius (except US). Is ECU programming that different in the US?
Example lubematch from Shell, Mobil and Castrol:
http://lubematch.shell.com/recommendatio...5&brand=122
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...2&brand=137
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...e=5&brand=1

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I wish we could get you to do just one uoa. Your maintenance routine is consistent,always with the same oil. I'd love to see what kind of info we could glean from your service schedule.


I don't know if we can talk tig1 into it, but I agree. He does the same thing all the time, so it would be awesome to see.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: bar1
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Supposedly on some models, the ECU programming has taken 0w20 into account and therefore, the VVT is programmed to operate accordingly.

One of my buddies who is a shop foreman at a major dealership says that he has seen start-up issues when 0w20 is not used.


I'm personally skeptical, but this guy has never led me wrong...ever. He did say that he had one Gen III Prius in that had an issue with start-up rattle/noise, and it turned out that the last oil service had been done with 5w30 instead of 0w20; installing 0w20 cured the problem.


Toyota recommends 5w30 for that Prius (except US). Is ECU programming that different in the US?
Example lubematch from Shell, Mobil and Castrol:
http://lubematch.shell.com/recommendatio...5&brand=122
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...2&brand=137
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.p...e=5&brand=1


We here this "the VVT system wont work properly", "the engine will make noise" if its not run on 20w all the time.
Yet countries like Norway with much colder temps than much of the continental US seem to run 30w without any such trouble.
All you hear is "we are not in Europe, we re in the US" which is all well and good but you would think they would at least wonder why.

 

[tc1446]

Sir1900: the M1-110 & PL14610 cross ref to each other. Assume you use them interchangable on the two cars?

 

[bar1]

Originally Posted By: Trav

We here this "the VVT system wont work properly", "the engine will make noise" if its not run on 20w all the time.
Yet countries like Norway with much colder temps than much of the continental US seem to run 30w without any such trouble.
All you hear is "we are not in Europe, we re in the US" which is all well and good but you would think they would at least wonder why.


NAF (Norwegian Automobile Federation, equivalent to Germanys ADAC) hasn't recorded a single engine problem with the Prius since it was introduced in 2000. Prius are very popular among taxi companies/owners.