0W-16 Oil....... Really ??

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Errtt
When I 1st heard of 0w-20 I was like "What!"
I think I had the same reaction 1st hearing of 0w-16. ...

Much ado and panic in this and many similar threads about nothing, or barely more than nothing. 0W-16 is not as radically thinner than (for example) 10w30 as people imagine. Look at the actual HTHS minimums before assuming the viscosity is somehow proportional to the grade designation. "-16" is just a category name (based on physical measurement), not a physical measurement in itself. Same for "0W."

Yup, people panicked when 10w30 multigrade oil was introduced. They then panicked when 5w30 was introduced. They then panicked when 5W-20 was introduced. They then panicked when 0W-20 was introduced. You get the idea.

If it's what's recommended in the owner's manual, that's what you should use. I run 0W-20 in my 1985 Toyota Corolla engine that recommends 10w30 (not even 5w30) and it runs perfectly with nearly zero oil consumption and the used oil analysis turn out great. So, I'm sure a 2018 Toyota Camry engine will be just fine with 0W-16.




Spot on. Good to see you here Gokhan.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: billt460
https://www.ebay.com/i/263247431319?chn=ps&dispItem=1

It seems expensive

Expensive? Do you have any idea how much does it cost to ship six quarts of oil? It's not to mention that eBay also charges 10% of the sale price to the seller.


That's why I said it seems expensive. Oil is not something I would purchase mail order. With all the shipping cost, along with everything else, I would simply buy it from the dealer if I absolutely had to. The price, along with the shipping is ridiculous. If I can purchase a good brand and grade of 0W-16 locally over the counter, then that is what I will use. If I can't I'll use 0W-20 per the Toyota manual, which allows that substitute without any risk of warranty interference. That weight of oil I know is available everywhere, including Wal-Mart.

I only change oil twice a year. So between the oil the car was delivered with, and a mid Summer oil change of 0W-20, it will be a year from now before I change it a second time. By then I'm sure 0W-16 will be available most everywhere. Especially when you factor in the amount of vehicles Toyota sells every year that require it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
If I can purchase a good brand and grade of 0W-16 locally over the counter, then that is what I will use. If I can't I'll use 0W-20 per the Toyota manual, which allows that substitute without any risk of warranty interference. That weight of oil I know is available everywhere, including Wal-Mart.


Please post a shot of that section of your manual, stating exactly that.

I'll add it to my collection of Manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Errtt
When I 1st heard of 0w-20 I was like "What!"
I think I had the same reaction 1st hearing of 0w-16. ...

Much ado and panic in this and many similar threads about nothing, or barely more than nothing. 0W-16 is not as radically thinner than (for example) 10w30 as people imagine. Look at the actual HTHS minimums before assuming the viscosity is somehow proportional to the grade designation. "-16" is just a category name (based on physical measurement), not a physical measurement in itself. Same for "0W."

Yup, people panicked when 10w30 multigrade oil was introduced. They then panicked when 5w30 was introduced. They then panicked when 5W-20 was introduced. They then panicked when 0W-20 was introduced. You get the idea.

If it's what's recommended in the owner's manual, that's what you should use. I run 0W-20 in my 1985 Toyota Corolla engine that recommends 10w30 (not even 5w30) and it runs perfectly with nearly zero oil consumption and the used oil analysis turn out great. So, I'm sure a 2018 Toyota Camry engine will be just fine with 0W-16.


All true. If you believe the whole "thicker is better" crowd, along with why this is all happening. Then you also have to buy into the believe the government, along with the EPA and the CAFE people, are all having secret meetings in the basement of the Pentagon. All to determine the best way to increase wear in new car engines, so the Daisy's will continue to bloom every Spring in an untarnished environment.

And unless these auto makers strike the fear of God into the consumers of their products, by forcing them to follow along lock step, by threatening revoked warranties. The top brass of said corporations will be all rounded up and shipped off to work camps. And the consumers of their products will have no choice but to worry in constant fear, that the engines in their brand new vehicles are grinding themselves into dust, by being horribly under lubricated with these "new" thin oils, that simply do not protect the way they should. While the black helicopters circle over the Toyota dealerships.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460

All true. If you believe the whole "thicker is better" crowd, along with why this is all happening. Then you also have to buy into the believe the government, along with the EPA and the CAFE people, are all having secret meetings in the basement of the Pentagon. All to determine the best way to increase wear in new car engines, so the Daisy's will continue to bloom every Spring in an untarnished environment.

And unless these auto makers strike the fear of God into the consumers of their products, by forcing them to follow along lock step, by threatening revoked warranties. The top brass of said corporations will be all rounded up and shipped off to work camps. And the consumers of their products will have no choice but to worry in constant fear, that the engines in their brand new vehicles are grinding themselves into dust, by being horribly under lubricated with these "new" thin oils, that simply do not protect the way they should.


You are one precious little buttercup aren't you..."tell me what to believe"

Now, the photograph of your manual please, stating that...an increase in viscosity over the 0W16 grade is entirely allowable, and warranty is not affected.

 

[Dallas69]

If you want to see what viscosity is best for the engine, just look at the severe service in the OM.
If you want to see what is best for the car company to meet cafe, look at the normal service.
Going up a grade will never hurt anything.Engines are not that picky for 99% of the cars.
Has anyone here actually know anyone who had any oil related warranty claims?and denied because of using wrong oil?

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
.....If it's what's recommended in the owner's manual, that's what you should use.


Oh, come on! Where did you ever get such a fool notion like that? Can't you, "think for yourself"?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
.....If it's what's recommended in the owner's manual, that's what you should use.


Oh, come on! Where did you ever get such a fool notion like that? Can't you, "think for yourself"?

And you are currently stating that YOUR manual lets you go "up a grade" to 0W20, without any warranty implications...

Put it up...pics of that statement, in your manual.

Please...focus...back to what you have told us is true.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
If you want to see what viscosity is best for the engine, just look at the severe service in the OM.
If you want to see what is best for the car company to meet cafe, look at the normal service.....


If you want what's best for your engine, the first thing you should do is throw your owners manual in the garbage. Because it was all printed under government duress by the manufacturers. Then go on line and consult with an "engineer" as to what's best to protect the engine in your vehicle. It's the only way you'll ever get the truth.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Now, the photograph of your manual please, stating that...an increase in viscosity over the 0W16 grade is entirely allowable, and warranty is not affected.


Originally Posted By: Shannow
Please post a shot of that section of your manual, stating exactly that.


Originally Posted By: Shannow
And you are currently stating that YOUR manual lets you go "up a grade" to 0W20, without any warranty implications... Put it up...pics of that statement, in your manual.


Here you go cupcake. Just for you:

"Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
SAE 0W-16 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting
in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-16 is not available, SAE
0W-20 oil may be used. However,
it must be replaced with SAE 0W-
16 at the next oil change."

Page 543.

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM06139U/pdf/OM06139U.pdf

 

[billt460]

I guess that finally shut him up.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I guess that finally shut him up.


LOL...so you finally read the manual...nice work.

 

[Shannow]

Now go back to post one if YOUR thread, and see jow far you have come (backpedalling 101)

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: billt460
I guess that finally shut him up.


LOL...so you finally read the manual...nice work.


No, I read the manual before I posted 0W-20 was permissible. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. And not only that, it was posted by hatt way back on page 3 of this same thread. You would have seen it the same as I did, if you spent more time reading instead of typing.

Originally Posted By: hatt
From your manual:
Quote:
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
SAE 0W-16 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting
in cold weather.

Quote:
The 16 in 0W-16 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the
oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher
value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or
under extreme load conditions.
Toyota allows other oils to be used.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: billt460
... it was posted by hatt way back on page 3 of this same thread.

Originally Posted By: hatt
From your manual:
Quote:
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
SAE 0W-16 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting
in cold weather.

Quote:
The 16 in 0W-16 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the
oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher
value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or
under extreme load conditions.
Toyota allows other oils to be used.


Key word in the owner's manual is "recommended" ... not "required".

Even Toyota knows that thin oil doesn't give as much engine protection under high temperature conditions as a thicker oil. That's also been shown over and over with many technical references throughout all the threads discussing "thin vs thick" oils. As said before, 0W-16 should be fine as long as the vehicle is driven in a benign way on the public streets, and no undue extended periods of stress is put on the engine.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: billt460
I guess that finally shut him up.


LOL...so you finally read the manual...nice work.


No, I read the manual before I posted 0W-20 was permissible. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. And not only that, it was posted by hatt way back on page 3 of this same thread. You would have seen it the same as I did, if you spent more time reading instead of typing.

Originally Posted By: hatt
From your manual:
Quote:
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
SAE 0W-16 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting
in cold weather.

Quote:
The 16 in 0W-16 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the
oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher
value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or
under extreme load conditions.
Toyota allows other oils to be used.


I read what Hatt said, and was in full agreement with it...

I know that you consider this "finger painting" (presumably because you can't interpret it), but it's exactly my point here.

The OEM's know their market and know that the AVERAGE US driver will be fine with these recommendations...drivers in other countries more variable, thus specifying higher grades.

AND therefore the comment that certain operating conditions may require a higher viscosity...a point that you vehemently disagreed with.

Now you agree with Hatt, so what is it?

But that's CLEARLY not the same as what you are now claiming, which is the use of 0W20 if, and only if 0W16 is not available, and MUST be changed back at next OCI.

Originally Posted By: billt460
"Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
SAE 0W-16 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting
in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-16 is not available, SAE
0W-20 oil may be used. However,
it must be replaced with SAE 0W-
16 at the next oil change."


Print both statements out, place them side by side and read them together.

Are they the same ?

No, just Backpedal Bill in action.

 

[4wd]

Now for page 16 on 0w16 … what oil will you run? 16 at first and maybe switch to 0w20 once it has some wear?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Now for page 16 on 0w16 … what oil will you run? 16 at first and maybe switch to 0w20 once it has some wear?


I've said it before...

Given what we've seen of current 0W16s like Ravenol, all the tweaking that the Japanese OEMs did to achieve their economy gains with 0W20, I'd run 0W16 over TGMO, HGMO, Mazda, or Sustina...any day.

 

[PimTac]

Shannon, on your graphic it shows the US circle ending out around 3000rpm which is indicative of a normal urban grocery getter. These studies however try to lump everyone into a certain range. For a driver living in the Rockies, the southwest desert, the farm areas of the Midwest and lots of rural places in between, driving patterns are completely different than in say Orange County CA. Higher speeds and engine loads would place it closer to the autobahn.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Shannon, on your graphic it shows the US circle ending out around 3000rpm which is indicative of a normal urban grocery getter. These studies however try to lump everyone into a certain range. For a driver living in the Rockies, the southwest desert, the farm areas of the Midwest and lots of rural places in between, driving patterns are completely different than in say Orange County CA. Higher speeds and engine loads would place it closer to the autobahn.


It's Honda's data, from field tests.

It's a probabalistic chart, showing the frequency of time that engines spend at RPM and load points...if more people spend their time at 1,500 RPM and 70kPa then that's where the cluster is.

Yes, there are people in the rockies, how many motor vehicle minutes are spent at those loads RPM, compared to the bulk of American Motoring ?

I could posit, but it's a WAG, that that little cluster at 3,000RPM wide open throttle contains those users and those hills...it would make sense.

Which is why with high confidence, they can specify certain grades in the US. Note that it's revs that make oil temperature, not load (revs contribute more, they aren't exclusive), knowing that the vast average of the time is in those ranges...then have

Originally Posted By: hatt
From your manual:
Quote:
The 16 in 0W-16 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the
oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher
value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or
under extreme load conditions.


To allow the outliers in terms of operation.

Note that Honda, when using the same assemblies for road and outboards spec 0W20 for the road vehicle, and 10W30 for the outboard, with a minimum HTHS (after use) of 3.3.