'09 Toyota Prius with 465,000 miles Retired

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Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
My opinion:
The Prius driver should have gotten a VW TDI, he's still be driving it (assuming proper maintenance). Not to mention it could have easily done 20k mile OCIs, and no need to actively "hypermile" it. But whatever, to each his own.


The typical BITOG absurd and innorance of the facts. No matter how many times I checked, VW's TDI is very lacking in reliability and plagued by very expensive repairs.

You can clearly see it here: http://www.truedelta.com/Volkswagen-Jetta/reliability-280/vs-Prius-272

I have nothing against the diesel cars themselves. I used to have one myself in my previous life. But, truth should be told and lies should be exposed.



As much as I like diesels (I'd nearly kill for a sub 100k mile mint Mercedes W124) I have to agree. The VW TDI is prone to chewing up cam followers and some other issues that I can't easily recollect. I'm sure on the lunched cam followers, though.
 
IIRC the cam followers was on the older VE TDI's (pre-'04), and it was like after 150kmiles, and it's not all of them. Easily rectified at TB time, IIRC.

Some of the PD's ('04 thro '06) ate camshafts. Not all though. But a much more involved job to replace those camshafts. Knock on wood, mine is still fine.

Not sure what the latest models are doing, as I haven't felt like replacing mine with a newer model. I'm still peeved over the intake flap failure (twice!) and clutch failure; the turbo failure I'm ambivalent about.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
My opinion:
The Prius driver should have gotten a VW TDI, he's still be driving it (assuming proper maintenance). Not to mention it could have easily done 20k mile OCIs, and no need to actively "hypermile" it. But whatever, to each his own.


The typical BITOG absurd and innorance of the facts. No matter how many times I checked, VW's TDI is very lacking in reliability and plagued by very expensive repairs.

You can clearly see it here: http://www.truedelta.com/Volkswagen-Jetta/reliability-280/vs-Prius-272

I have nothing against the diesel cars themselves. I used to have one myself in my previous life. But, truth should be told and lies should be exposed.



Funny, I started to type a response to that and decided not to bother, but you're right... Anyone who thinks the maintenance costs on a VW TDI are going to be less than a Prius over 800K miles is seriously deluded. It's not like the 465K Prius is going to the scrap heap, it's consuming oil (and not even that much), and the guy wanted a larger car. Change the valve-stem seals and it'll probably resolve most/all of the consumption issues.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
IIRC the cam followers was on the older VE TDI's (pre-'04), and it was like after 150kmiles, and it's not all of them. Easily rectified at TB time, IIRC.

Some of the PD's ('04 thro '06) ate camshafts. Not all though. But a much more involved job to replace those camshafts. Knock on wood, mine is still fine.

Not sure what the latest models are doing, as I haven't felt like replacing mine with a newer model. I'm still peeved over the intake flap failure (twice!) and clutch failure; the turbo failure I'm ambivalent about.


The latest models seem to have problems with high pressure fuel pumps: http://jalopnik.com/5968228/are-fuel-pump-failures-sidelining-volkswagens-diesel-engines

this one poster explained what the problem is and nailed it on the head:

Quote:

I had a 2010 Jetta TDI that I sold after 29,xxx miles when the Mobil stations in Illinois stopped carrying the 5% or under biofuel blends that are required to run these cars in December of 2011. They were the only ones to ever carry D2 or B5 in my day to day life since I bought the car November of 2010 (with a 600 mile tank, you had plenty of time to drive by a tollway oasis). Even before that, most stations in Illinois carried the B20 (5-20% biofuel) blends and the last of the stations finally converted over due to tax incentives from the state of Illinois.

VW explicitly states in the manual that fuel containing >5% biofuel will void the fuel system and emission systems' warranty. The fuel system warranty is voided because the fragile fuel pump doesn't like the biodiesel (may explain the "miss-fillings" stated above instead of gasoline) and the emission system warranty was voided because of the increased regeneration schedule of the active diesel particulate filter that is in the exhaust system and what gives these the "Clean Diesel" name. The biofuel burns "greasier" than the standard D2 diesel and this causes the filter to clog faster and also takes longer to burn off the contaminates during an active regeneration (during the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valve is left open and a small amount of fuel is injected into the cylinder to be pushed down stream and into the DPF where it is hot and will burn off the soot that gets trapped there). This system replaces the Urea injection that BMW, Mercedes, and VW/Audi uses in their 6 cylinder+ diesels.

VW NA was little to no help in the situation. They apologized about the inconvenience of not being able to find the spec'd fuel for the car I bought and then just proceeded to repeat the warranty verbiage saying any other fuel will void the cars warranty. This didn't sit right with me and I decided to sell based on the cost of the components that fail ~$8000 for a fuel pump issue and ~$2000 for a DPF issue. If VW doesn't have the confidence to stand behind their product, why should I? Luckily they hold their value so I didn't really take a bath when I sold it. I'm not very angry with that part of it, but I am still angry about the way they are handling it.

Its a numbers thing.. there is such a small market in the US for diesels (albiet it is gaining solid traction now, until something like this makes news) that it most likely doesn't make sense for VW to make the change in policy/reengineer a solution for the 3 midwest states that run [censored] B20+ fuel.

I laughed when Jalopnik ran a story saying that VW was going to debut the new Beetle TDi in Chicago at the Chicago Auto Show... a market where not one of those customers can buy the fuel to keep their brand new car in warranty. I asked a senior level VW marketing REP (his title escapes me) about this very point at the auto show and he brushed it off as NBD and that they were currently doing testing to determine the effect of B20 and that a statement was on his desk to go out to owners soon. Did anybody receive that? I still get other VW mail sent to me. I took that as, we are testing to see how many components fail in the 36,000 or 50,000 mile warranties. The fact of the matter is, these weren't designed to burn corn and now people have to and it doesn't make financial sense for anyone to do anything about it... Just hope it doesn't affect you.

Honestly, I really enjoyed that car, and the thing I am most [censored] about is that they haven't actually fixed it yet... I would buy another one after this gets properly addressed and they earn my trust back.
 
Prius are exempt from smog checks in State of California (and many other states) but not VW TDI. All diesels manufactured after 1997 are required for smog check here in CA.

Don't know much about Diesel Exhaust Fluid, but I imagine it can be PITA when one have to add additional fluids on top of filling up the gas tank.

If I've take a pick, Prius is simply more "practical" & require less compromise.

The car has no power steering (its electric), alternator, starter are part of the hybrid synergy drive which is warrantied by Toyota for 8 yrs/140,000 miles.

No fan belt (electric), CVT Transmission has only 7 moving parts, so the factory recommended 100K fluid interval is very realistic & safe to follow.

Engine has no timing belt (chain), and regenerative braking system provide the majority of brake force, so the car rarely need brake pads.

No smog check, 48-51 mpg is very realistic if one simply cruise along with traffic.
 
Last edited:
Prius could be the last car one ever needs but not wants at least while gas still is attainable.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: uart
Originally Posted By: wally6934
I wondered about that statement about original brake pads. Does the Prius have some kind of electrical or re-genitive braking. 465K miles highway or not for brake pads is hard to belive.


Yep, regenerative braking is one of the features that contributes to the overall efficiency of the Prius. The regenerative braking can account for some of the braking effort or almost all of it, depending on terrain and how aggressive or how laid-back is your driving style. So it can vary a lot from one driver to the next, but the brake pads in a Prius can last a very long time.

I've got a 2005 Prius with 120,000 miles and all original pads. I checked them fairly recently and they had very little wear. I doubt that I'll ever need to change them.

I must be the only lead foot Prius driver on the road. My 2011 just turned 70k and my front pads are at 5mm, while my rears are still at 7mm. At this rate, I will be due for a set of front pads at 90-100k.


Don't you have a hilly commute? Try coasting/braking ahead, that will use more regenerative vs slamming on brakes that is mostly friction.

I really don't care about brake pad life since I am already getting 90-100k out of a set. I actually just returned from a 1200 mile road trip to Southern CA and only averaged 41 mpg. This figure is a bit lower than average so I do suspect an alignment issue of some sort (since the car also pull to the left).
 
RE: VW vs Toyota reliability - fair enough, VWs are maintenance hogs and Toyotas are not. BUT, have you DRIVEN a Prius? Have you DRIVEN a Jetta/Golf???

To me, it's worth the extra maintenance.
 
Originally Posted By: mva
The Prius with 465k miles was traded in on a new Prius V in jan 2012.

"2 fas 4 u" has already put 220,000 miles on the Prius V since jan 2012.

The original tires on the V were changed at 161k miles! Also, he only changed oil and filters up until just recently when he finally did the pcv, the tranny fluid and spark plugs.

http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-v-100-000-mile-club.102769/page-9


He also replaced a wheel bearing.

But reading his threads he only averages 41-45 mpgs! Hardly anything to write home about especially since a Corolla, Civic or most other cars in the compact segment can come really close to it.
Reading this guy's posts, with the wheel bearing going bad, he was struggling to break 40 mpgs on that car. Also reading Critic's experiments it seems that Prius is a very finicky car when it comes to mpgs. A lot of things can "upset it" and throw off the mileages, it seems. Most other cars are not affected that easily.

In other words, people saying that Prius is not all that great for mostly highway usage are right, IMO. Most compact cars today can get 40mpg highway or more, are cheaper to buy initially and as cheap to maintain, and most are certainly just better driving machines.
 
I average 48 MPG with a 70/30 HWY/CITY driving ratio.

Coming from. KIA Soul that was lucky to get 28 MPG, I have no complaints about my Prius other that it is a bore to drive. Of course my Corrolla was a yawner also but they are transportation to me and not extensions of my psyche like some make their cars out to be
 
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
RE: VW vs Toyota reliability - fair enough, VWs are maintenance hogs and Toyotas are not. BUT, have you DRIVEN a Prius? Have you DRIVEN a Jetta/Golf???

To me, it's worth the extra maintenance.


2010 Prius is my daily driver and I drive VW cars every time I travel to europe (a lot): VW, Audi, Skoda. All TDI, different engine sizes. I really don't know what that german driving excellence buzz is all about. I find TDI nothing special to drive.

Now, my V6 RAV4 with 269HP gas engine, that is exiting driving, the WOT is so quick, it's actually scary.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

But reading his threads he only averages 41-45 mpgs! Hardly anything to write home about especially since a Corolla, Civic or most other cars in the compact segment can come really close to it.
Reading this guy's posts, with the wheel bearing going bad, he was struggling to break 40 mpgs on that car. Also reading Critic's experiments it seems that Prius is a very finicky car when it comes to mpgs. A lot of things can "upset it" and throw off the mileages, it seems. Most other cars are not affected that easily.

In other words, people saying that Prius is not all that great for mostly highway usage are right, IMO. Most compact cars today can get 40mpg highway or more, are cheaper to buy initially and as cheap to maintain, and most are certainly just better driving machines.


You don't understand. To get 40 mpg in non-hybrid gas cars you have to baby it and drive slow. To get 40 mpg in prius you need to flog it and do at least 90 mph.

To do 200,000 miles in a 2010 car, this guy lives in it and drives as quick as he can. This is also Prius V that is much lager than regular Prius and the EPA MPG is much lower.

Mind you, I had corolla and have prius now. Doing 75-80 mph in corolla with AC on gave me low 30's MPG. Same in Prius gives me high 40's. Apples to oranges.

The biggest difference is in city (most of my driving). I get TWICE the mpg vs corolla (55 vs 27-28).
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: mva
The Prius with 465k miles was traded in on a new Prius V in jan 2012.

"2 fas 4 u" has already put 220,000 miles on the Prius V since jan 2012.

The original tires on the V were changed at 161k miles! Also, he only changed oil and filters up until just recently when he finally did the pcv, the tranny fluid and spark plugs.

http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-v-100-000-mile-club.102769/page-9


He also replaced a wheel bearing.

But reading his threads he only averages 41-45 mpgs! Hardly anything to write home about especially since a Corolla, Civic or most other cars in the compact segment can come really close to it.
Reading this guy's posts, with the wheel bearing going bad, he was struggling to break 40 mpgs on that car. Also reading Critic's experiments it seems that Prius is a very finicky car when it comes to mpgs. A lot of things can "upset it" and throw off the mileages, it seems. Most other cars are not affected that easily.

In other words, people saying that Prius is not all that great for mostly highway usage are right, IMO. Most compact cars today can get 40mpg highway or more, are cheaper to buy initially and as cheap to maintain, and most are certainly just better driving machines.


No, they aren't. The Prius V has roughly the same cargo capacity as a Toyota Venza, and slightly less than a CRV. This guy's lifetime mileage over 200K miles is 45mpg. Let me know what other cars with that much cargo capacity are remotely close. The TDI wagon is the only one. Comparing it to a Civic or Corolla really doesn't make a lot of sense, and in the usage that guy sees, no one is getting 45mph out of a Civic or a Corolla anyway. It seems people love to make up stuff to explain to other people why they should buy a hybrid? This guy put on over 400K on one and decided to buy another one. I'm guessing he was happy with it, and he certainly was familiar with the vehicle. For his use, I'm having a hard time thinking of a more suitable car.
 
Who's making stuff up? I never said that compact cars can match Prius in gas mileage, but they sure come close on pure highway trips, which is exactly what this guy does.
Perhaps if you did not take my post as Prius bashing (something that was definitely not my intention) you wouldn't be making stuff up
wink.gif

With my old tech Mazda 3 2.0, it constantly averages 37 mpgs on all my trips. The car is loaded with two adults, two kids, luggage and I always do 70-80 mph. A lot of new compacts can easily beat that and go over 40 mpgs.

And can someone explain why Prius is so easily thrown off with its gas mileage? How does it respond to being fully loaded?
The guy in that thread even mentions that he changed his tires and got bad gas mileage, so he got another set. That surely adds up to the total cost, doesn't it? I wouldn't want to play with tire types. What else can easily reduce gas mileage in this car? Again, don't take this as bashing, but those would be legitimate concerns, at least to me.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Who's making stuff up? I never said that compact cars can match Prius in gas mileage, but they sure come close on pure highway trips, which is exactly what this guy does.
Perhaps if you did not take my post as Prius bashing (something that was definitely not my intention) you wouldn't be making stuff up
wink.gif

With my old tech Mazda 3 2.0, it constantly averages 37 mpgs on all my trips. The car is loaded with two adults, two kids, luggage and I always do 70-80 mph. A lot of new compacts can easily beat that and go over 40 mpgs.


Because it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. A PriusV isn't in the same category of car as a Corolla or Civic, so why compare them? There are no cars of similar cargo capacity that come close to the highway mileage of the PriusV.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
And can someone explain why Prius is so easily thrown off with its gas mileage? How does it respond to being fully loaded?
The guy in that thread even mentions that he changed his tires and got bad gas mileage, so he got another set. That surely adds up to the total cost, doesn't it? I wouldn't want to play with tire types. What else can easily reduce gas mileage in this car? Again, don't take this as bashing, but those would be legitimate concerns, at least to me.


That's easy. Rolling resistance is a bigger percentage of the overall losses in a car with a more efficient drivetrain, plus, the car gets much higher fuel economy overall. Tire rolling resistance (or a bad wheel bearing) effects ALL cars, not just the Prius, and probably by a similar percentage. A 7% reduction in a car getting 28mpg isn't going to be as noticeable as a 7% reduction in a car getting 45mpg.

Sure, the tires are an expense, but it's not like other cars aren't equally affected as a percentage hit on FE. This isn't something that's specific to a Prius, it's just more noticeable in any car that gets really high FE.
 
I recently bought a CT200h which is pretty similar to Prius. I am getting 50+ overall. The advantage of Hybrid vs. gas is city mpg which seems getting ignored here. Also for me the carbon foot print was another consideration. I can easily pull 55 mpg in the city if not driving in traffic of rush hour. In stop and go this car mainly & mostly runs on battery.
 
Originally Posted By: CaspianM
I recently bought a CT200h which is pretty similar to Prius. I am getting 50+ overall. The advantage of Hybrid vs. gas is city mpg which seems getting ignored here. Also for me the carbon foot print was another consideration. I can easily pull 55 mpg in the city if not driving in traffic of rush hour. In stop and go this car mainly & mostly runs on battery.


They are ignoring the city mpg, because they are destined to find a reason to talk trash about the Prius.
 
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