'09 Toyota Prius with 465,000 miles Retired

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Best F100
I recently stumbled upon a 35 page conversation on the priuschat website. It was designated for Prius owners with over 299,999 miles. You can google it for all the details.

Some of you may have interest in a particular '09 Prius owner, from Florida who recently traded in his Prius for a new Prius V. His occupation, as a medical supply courier, allowed him to travel, on average, 3,100 miles/week. Here are some details about that particular car:

* At 465,000 miles> Used Mobil 1 0W30 for the first 100,000 miles. Used Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage for at least 200,000 miles (not sure as to how long). Went to Royal Purple which he liked better because it slowed the excessive oil consumption. Used a Purolator 14477 filter. Oil Change intervals of 10,000 miles in all highway
driving.

* Car started burning oil at 390,000 miles (3/4 qt/1,000 miles in a 3.9 qt oil sump) at which point, Royal Purple was used. Car used to burn 1 qt/1900 miles.

*Car averaged 47 mpg over 70mph, 48-49mpg over 60 mph.

*Transaxle fluid was changed at 125K, 235K, 355K intervals. Had oil changes 2 times/month. Car went through 3 sets of spark plugs in that 465,000 miles. Still on original struts, original brakes, 12 volt battery was replaced at 175,000 miles (still on the original hybrid battery), original inverter fluid. Had to buy a new set of hatchback pistons.

*Owner replaced this car because of the excessive oil consumption, plus wanted more room in the new Prius V.
There was another owner at this forum with a Prius with over 500,000 miles, but had to replace the original tired engine at 400,000.

I found this all interesting because I have a 2010 Fusion Hybrid with just under 90,000 miles. I am averaging 45 mpg this summer (range of 41-52), depending on how fast I drive. I hope to keep it, until it has 400,000 miles. This gives me some indication as to how long hybrid vehicles can last. I am using Motorcraft 5W20 FULL Synthetic during summer and Toyota 0W20 during winter @ 5,000 mile intervals. Ford Escape Hybrid taxis in New York City were retired with over 400,000 miles with original components, engine and batteries.

Question: Do you think, this owner could have increased the engine longevity at less than 10,000 oil change intervals/or using something other than Mobil 1 0W30 and Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage? I think it turned out pretty well.

Only 465,000 miles? Aren't Toyota's supposed to last 1,000,000 miles?

He should have used Toyota 0W-20 as recommended. It wouldn't die at 450k then.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Donald
But remember 1000 miles in a Prius is not the same number of engine hours as 1000 miles in my Jeep. I would think engine hours would be important. But number of starts is probably also important.


Actually I'll bet it is quite similar to your jeep. Hybrids are not EVs. The engine is running, and given the highway use, any delta would merely be a few stoplights or traffic jams. Situations where lots of AC is required, or there is a lot of electric load would still leave the engine running. Cruising on the highway, the engine runs. The hours amass just like on a normal car, just the power is augmented, and absorbed.

Given that hybrids use only around 10% of the battery charge, it can't do much without the engine, but of course MPGs sure benefit.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Wonder if he was using Royal Purple Synerlec?


Frankly he could've used almost any oil and been fine.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Wonder if he was using Royal Purple Synerlec?

Frankly he could've used almost any oil and been fine.

Exactly.
I would have used TGMO 0W-20 initially, but once he racked up some high mileage on the car and the oil mileage became high I'd have switched to the cheapest bulk dino.
When the oil consumption dropped to 2k/qt I'd stop changing the oil entirely, just the filter every 25,000 miles or so.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Best F100
* Car started burning oil at 390,000 miles (3/4 qt/1,000 miles in a 3.9 qt oil sump) at which point, Royal Purple was used. Car used to burn 1 qt/1900 miles.

Actually 3/4 qt per 1,000 miles, while a lot, isn't considered as excessive oil consumption. You should still change your oil at regular intervals.

I would have switched to 10W-40 or even 15W-40 dino, which would decrease the consumption to about half (more so with 15W-40) and save money on makeup oil. Chances are that use of synthetic in this engine had no effect on longevity.

Chances are that the excessive consumption is a result of worn valve-stem oil seals -- about a $1,000 repair if you can't do it yourself. Rubber parts fail long before metal parts in these extremely well-machined Japanese engines of post mid-1980s.

 

[Thermo1223]

Anytime you go over 30MPH the engine will turn on, sure you can hypermile it a bit but unless you like being the rolling roadblock I don't advise it.

This is my personal experience at least. It will always be on at anything above 40MPH unless coasting downhill but in some situations if the battery charge is high it will bleed off momentum by using the engine itself as a brake(think a manual car in gear coasting).

So if he worked a 50hr in car driving week and his avg. was 3,100 miles. His avg speed was 62mph which means the engine was always doing the bulk of the work. The battery was hardly used if you compare it to a normal car battery at least. Using electricity when idling/coasting to a stop was it's worst use and even that was small compared to highway travel.

A decent feat for any car.

 

[surfstar]

Anyone racking up anywhere near that kind of mileage at that fast of a rate, should definitely be driving a Prius. The gas savings alone would pay for the next car.


At work I drive a 2010 Fusion Hybrid (like the OPs car), but with many cold starts, the avg mpg is only 36.0 currently. I can break 40 on trips, but too many cold starts really cuts it down. It can also go up (or coast) to 47mph on electric alone. Comfy hwy cruiser on longer trips, but way overpriced IMHO.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

In the words of my father....

Diesel Motors and Hybrids will get better gas mileage....

But unless you drive and drive and drive and drive.... you won't get your money back.

 

[dino33]

True that. The guy on the Priuschat thread used his car for delivery of medical products, so, it was his livelihood, which is why he probably decided it was time for something newer...

 

[WMSmotorhead]

My late friend had a sales biz, and he drove and drove and drove... he had a Chevy Trailblazer... I put him on M1 EP.. and we were changing it at 15K... I think someone switched him to Amsoil for a time...

That motor made it to 300K before getting a death tick. He put a rebuilt motor in it and kept on going.

Right around 2003 or so, I really saw a shift in Ford Motor. Crown Vic's and their clones were known to last... as were Escorts.... But in the last 10 years, Ford Motor has impressed me at the longevity of their vehicles. It is quite possible to get ridiculous miles out of the Fusion in question... however it's going to need to be on the road speeding along for many years to get to that point.

Things that shorten a cars life:
1. Sitting around
2. Idling
3. Corrosion (Thanks Ohio for your salt)
4. Neglect

My 2001 Focus is still running fine... the Engine/Trans is healthy... But the Corrosion is taking its toll.. heat shields are loose and rattling.. but what the heck.. it runs right, shifts right, and steers right... so I just keep driving it.

 

[uart]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Anytime you go over 30MPH the engine will turn on

With the older (gen2) prius the engine *has* to turn (dictated be the transmission) whenever you're at 43 MPH or greater. You can actually be driving fully electric when you're over 43 MPH, but the engine will still be turning without fuel injection. With the newer 2010+ prius that limit has been increased to somewhere about 53 MPH.

Whatever the fine details though, I agree with you. Anyone doing mostly freeway miles is going to have the engine running most of the time. Some trips around town however, particular where the speed limits are low, you can have the engine usage down around 60%.

 

[uart]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Anyone racking up anywhere near that kind of mileage at that fast of a rate, should definitely be driving a Prius. The gas savings alone would pay for the next car.
Yeah somewhere in that thread the guy added up all the saving that he'd made in both fuel and maintained (compared to his previous car) and it came to *more* than the new Prius purchase price.

The Prius can work out an incredibly good economic prospect for anyone who wants to rack up a lot of miles in a relatively short span of years. If on the other hand you want a car to keep for 25 years and rack up perhaps 100,000 miles total, then a Prius is probably not ideal.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: Best F100
I recently stumbled upon a 35 page conversation on the priuschat website. It was designated for Prius owners with over 299,999 miles. You can google it for all the details.

Some of you may have interest in a particular '09 Prius owner, from Florida who recently traded in his Prius for a new Prius V. His occupation, as a medical supply courier, allowed him to travel, on average, 3,100 miles/week. Here are some details about that particular car:

* At 465,000 miles> Used Mobil 1 0W30 for the first 100,000 miles. Used Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage for at least 200,000 miles (not sure as to how long). Went to Royal Purple which he liked better because it slowed the excessive oil consumption. Used a Purolator 14477 filter. Oil Change intervals of 10,000 miles in all highway
driving.

* Car started burning oil at 390,000 miles (3/4 qt/1,000 miles in a 3.9 qt oil sump) at which point, Royal Purple was used. Car used to burn 1 qt/1900 miles.

*Car averaged 47 mpg over 70mph, 48-49mpg over 60 mph.

*Transaxle fluid was changed at 125K, 235K, 355K intervals. Had oil changes 2 times/month. Car went through 3 sets of spark plugs in that 465,000 miles. Still on original struts, original brakes, 12 volt battery was replaced at 175,000 miles (still on the original hybrid battery), original inverter fluid. Had to buy a new set of hatchback pistons.

*Owner replaced this car because of the excessive oil consumption, plus wanted more room in the new Prius V.
There was another owner at this forum with a Prius with over 500,000 miles, but had to replace the original tired engine at 400,000.

I found this all interesting because I have a 2010 Fusion Hybrid with just under 90,000 miles. I am averaging 45 mpg this summer (range of 41-52), depending on how fast I drive. I hope to keep it, until it has 400,000 miles. This gives me some indication as to how long hybrid vehicles can last. I am using Motorcraft 5W20 FULL Synthetic during summer and Toyota 0W20 during winter @ 5,000 mile intervals. Ford Escape Hybrid taxis in New York City were retired with over 400,000 miles with original components, engine and batteries.

Question: Do you think, this owner could have increased the engine longevity at less than 10,000 oil change intervals/or using something other than Mobil 1 0W30 and Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage? I think it turned out pretty well.


Have you seen these articles? Impressive stuff,
Ford claims not one battery cell issue since 2007!

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1063...most-taxi-miles

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1020...0000-plus-miles

 

[Spector]

Original brakes, very unlikely!

I have a Ford product hybrid, 2012, averaging around 38 or so. I find that cold temperatures and very hot temps significantly affect the mpg, extreme heat seems to decrease the mpg more than cold.

As to the Prius, remember, at highway speeds the gas engine is ALWAYS running, maybe only 2000 or so RPMs but always running so not too much of an affect to say that engine hours are less than a regular car at 490,000 miles mostly highway

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: uart
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Anytime you go over 30MPH the engine will turn on

With the older (gen2) prius the engine *has* to turn (dictated be the transmission) whenever you're at 43 MPH or greater. You can actually be driving fully electric when you're over 43 MPH, but the engine will still be turning without fuel injection.


That's interesting because 43 mph is also the point at which the gas engine will stay on in the two 2011 Fusion Hybrids we have at work. 42 mph or below, the engine will stay off if the conditions are right. 43 mph or above, the engine will stay turning at all times, even coasting down an infinitely long hill.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: uart
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Anytime you go over 30MPH the engine will turn on

With the older (gen2) prius the engine *has* to turn (dictated be the transmission) whenever you're at 43 MPH or greater. You can actually be driving fully electric when you're over 43 MPH, but the engine will still be turning without fuel injection. With the newer 2010+ prius that limit has been increased to somewhere about 53 MPH.

Whatever the fine details though, I agree with you. Anyone doing mostly freeway miles is going to have the engine running most of the time. Some trips around town however, particular where the speed limits are low, you can have the engine usage down around 60%.


Well I wonder if my aunt's nagging MIL lamp had something to do with it or just by foot. I also wonder if she ever had the 12v lead acid replaced because it's mileage was a little off.

I thought I felt the gas engine actually fire off anytime over 30 mph but then again I was new to such a device. I actually told her Deka makes an AGM battery specifically for Prius's now just in case.

I should have got my wife it or something similar since the woman likes driving as much as I like shopping.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I think it's more time than anything that wears out the hybrid batteries.

It is the number of charge/discharge cycles that wear out the hybrid battery, not necessarily miles or age. This guy drove all highway miles (note the fact that he still had the original brake pads on the car). On the highway the Prius engine runs full time and the electric hybrid system is used very little. Running 3k miles a week on the highway, the hybrid battery saw very few charge/discharge cycles, far fewer than the average driver would subject it to during the same 4 year time span, regardless of miles.
No doubt about it, the Panasonic EV NiMH hybrid battery is a very well engineered very high quality product. Toyota has had virtually NO problems of any kind with them. They have had far more problems with the inverters than the batteries.

 

[wally6934]

I wondered about that statement about original brake pads. Does the Prius have some kind of electrical or re-genitive braking. 465K miles highway or not for brake pads is hard to belive.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: wally6934
I wondered about that statement about original brake pads. Does the Prius have some kind of electrical or re-genitive braking. 465K miles highway or not for brake pads is hard to belive.


Yep, it has regenerative braking. That's how the battery charges itself (after all, there's no plug-in). So, the brake pads don't see much actions. Between that and all of the highway miles, it's not really a surprise that he's on the original brake pads. 465K on a 2009 car, he hasn't been doing much stopping!

 

[surfstar]

I got 340k+ miles out of original rotors and one pad change (@ 132k) on a '93 Mazda MX6 (and original clutch). I could see a Prius lasting longer on the factory brakes easily.