09 Acadia with a 25k OCI = sludge

[21Rouge]

In the following thread, there is discussion of this car in which the owner used Amsoil, went to 25k with the result being sludge and wrecked timing chains. This has all the makings of a very sad car story but according to the OP GM is going to foot the bill for a new engine!

http://www.acadiaforum.net/forum/index.php?topic=8869.0

 

[chubbs1]

GM wouldn't foot the bill if it were any other oil w/o a warranty like Amsoil. 25k on ANY oil is abuse but Amsoil backs it up (as long as you meet their qualifications for extended drain). I wouldn't go 25k with anything, shoot, I change the oil 9-10 times in a 25k span....too much!

 

[electrolover]

well it aint too swooft to run any oil 25k.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

A 25,000 mile OCI, missing antifreeze with no leaks, and there's sludge?

Gee, who'd a thunk it.

I personally think that GM is far to generous for covering this. The owner should have made a big deal of the missing antifreeze and made the service department find and fix it, had the oil tested for coolant contamination, and changed the oil frequently.

I have no problem with long OCI's, but doing it blindly on an engine that is "missing antifreeze" is dumb. Truly dumb.

 

[ahoier]

The only reason I could see them "footing the bill" would be since the sludge is in correlation with the coolant/water leak, getting into the oil, which then obstructed the timing chain.....

Strange, I'd be interested to know what comes of this.....but we all know, someone will be forced to "hush hush" about this....so Owner's can't "read between the lines" and purposely destroy their engines and have GMC replace them under warranty.....heh.

 

[demarpaint]

25,000 mile OCI, many times can be flirting with disaster. One thing to keep in mind the Anti-Freeze doesn't always leak into the engine. It could have been slowly leaking onto a very hot engine part and burnt off unnoticed. This is another example of a consumer reading a label or a website and diving into an extended OCI blindly. You still have to pop the hood and check things like oil level, coolant level, and get a UOA report to be certain you can actually run the extended drain. Live and learn as they say.

Also note Amsoil said there was no problem with the oil, so if the coolant leaked into the oil they'd know. Also no problems with the oil yet sludge? I'd send it to a lab of my own choice too.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit


I personally think that GM is far to generous for covering this. The owner should have made a big deal of the missing antifreeze and made the service department find and fix it, had the oil tested for coolant contamination, and changed the oil frequently.


But the OP in that referenced thread does not say that coolant was found in the oil. And as one who is very familiar with the Lambda vehicles I have not read of one instance of a head gasket leak for these engines.

I have no idea why GM is choosing to cover this obvious neglect by the owner.

 

[mpvue]

I read that whole thread and still don't see how GM would cover this.
I would expect them to:
a. deny based on not following OLM
b. deny based on non-approved oil
c. blame the oil

as is usually the case w/ internet quarterbacking, we don't have all the facts. but from what we have, I would think amsoil should be on the hook for this one.

 

[hounddog]

Is not UP TO 25k OCI with oil analysis? Isn't that stated in Amsoil literature? I also would like to see the TECH BULLITIEN that is being referred to. Its mentioned several times but does not say what it is. Seems really odd that GM would repair on their dime a engine that had gone 25k on oil.Anybody's oil.

 

[Pablo]

He used a Wix filter and didn't change it.

I would love to see the actual UOA did he or did he not have an internal coolant leak?

It's the internet - dunno who to believe. But 25K is not recommended in this engine.

 

[demarpaint]

It is very possible as I mentioned the coolant was leaking externally and burning off. A slight leak can easily go unnoticed if it burns off. The UOA should have shown it if it was leaking internally. It should also show if the coolant level was low enough to stress the oil from too much heat. Amsoil said the oil was fine, obviously a UOA can't detect sludge. I'd love to see pictures and the inside of the oil filter. I'd also love to see another lab report. Clearly the owner couldn't follow directions, he's lucky GM is so kind.

 

[KrisZ]

And how do we know that Amsoil did not contact GM and they worked together on this matter? Perhaps that's how they resolved who covers the repairs?

Also, I don't see owner's neglect, READ THE THREAD PEOPLE. OP in that thread clearly states he changed the oil at 25k or one year as per Amsoil's recommendations. He also used Wix filter, not the Amsoil filter that was no longer approved, and changed it at 12k miles. He also said that he was only adding something like 0.5 of a quart during the 25k OCI.


So yea it really sounds like a guy neglecting his vehicles

He also stated repeatedly, to the people accusing him of neglect, that he has several high mileage cars, two of them with over 200k on the clock using exactly the same routine.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
And how do we know that Amsoil did not contact GM and they worked together on this matter? Perhaps that's how they resolved who covers the repairs?


We don't. And neither do you, so it's foolish to speculate that it happened.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Also, I don't see owner's neglect, READ THE THREAD PEOPLE. OP in that thread clearly states he changed the oil at 25k or one year as per Amsoil's recommendations. He also used Wix filter, not the Amsoil filter that was no longer approved, and changed it at 12k miles. He also said that he was only adding something like 0.5 of a quart during the 25k OCI.


So yea it really sounds like a guy neglecting his vehicles

Yeah, knowing you're losing coolant and not pushing the issue with a dealership that "can't duplicate the issue" sure isn't neglect.

Sure, going 25,000 miles on engine oil without evidence that it can or should go that far isn't neglect. Blindly following marketing hype isn't neglect.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

He also stated repeatedly, to the people accusing him of neglect, that he has several high mileage cars, two of them with over 200k on the clock using exactly the same routine.


Right. Just because it worked on other older vehicles means it should work on this one. I used to use 10W-40 in some of my older vehicles and ran them to 150K+. By your logic I should be fine doing the same with my newer, completely different engines, right?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
And how do we know that Amsoil did not contact GM and they worked together on this matter? Perhaps that's how they resolved who covers the repairs?

Also, I don't see owner's neglect, READ THE THREAD PEOPLE. OP in that thread clearly states he changed the oil at 25k or one year as per Amsoil's recommendations. He also used Wix filter, not the Amsoil filter that was no longer approved, and changed it at 12k miles. He also said that he was only adding something like 0.5 of a quart during the 25k OCI.


So yea it really sounds like a guy neglecting his vehicles

He also stated repeatedly, to the people accusing him of neglect, that he has several high mileage cars, two of them with over 200k on the clock using exactly the same routine.


Owners neglect in the sense that GM doesn't approve 25K OCI's. That is why I said neglect and he's lucky. He also was low on coolant, something he should have checked. Warranty or not, Amsoil or not, I'd never run oil for 25,000 miles, especially in an engine that is fairly new to the market like these DI engines. They need to log more miles in actual use before anything can be determined about how good/bad they are. From what I see I'm glad I don't own a DI engine. My bet is Amsoil is going to be watching these engines and issuing OCI modifications, 25,000 miles IMO with these engines is a mistake.

I doubt Amsoil got together with GM, IMO all they did as say their oil was fine, and were thankful GM footed the bill.

If needed low coolant level was their out.

 

[webfors]

Craziness... yet so easily avoidable.

 

[KrisZ]

Quote:
Yeah, knowing you're losing coolant and not pushing the issue with a dealership that "can't duplicate the issue" sure isn't neglect.

Sure, going 25,000 miles on engine oil without evidence that it can or should go that far isn't neglect. Blindly following marketing hype isn't neglect.


Right, so the guy brings up the coolant issue to the dealership, they say it cannot be duplicated and it's the owner's fault? The guy kept it topped off, that's all you can do when the dealer cannot duplicate the problem. Get real man.

The poor guy knows his car inside and out, follows Amsoil's recommendetions, not marketing hype, gets sludge and is branded for car neglect, stay classy BITOG

.

 

[ottotheclown]

Agree it is not his fault. That marketing hype sure fools alot we all know that. Who cares if they back it up?? Why are oil companies allowed to get away with this???I still remember back when car mfg said 6,000 or 6 months would be fine oci wise. I took off a valve cover on a Chevy 6, a desert no oil to be seen. Yes,

that was years ago but still the idea. That is why me, 5 k and I pay no attention to the olm as it would show same % if I was running Super Tech dino or Redline street oil.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Quote:
Yeah, knowing you're losing coolant and not pushing the issue with a dealership that "can't duplicate the issue" sure isn't neglect.

Sure, going 25,000 miles on engine oil without evidence that it can or should go that far isn't neglect. Blindly following marketing hype isn't neglect.


Right, so the guy brings up the coolant issue to the dealership, they say it cannot be duplicated and it's the owner's fault? The guy kept it topped off, that's all you can do when the dealer cannot duplicate the problem. Get real man.

The poor guy knows his car inside and out, follows Amsoil's recommendetions, not marketing hype, gets sludge and is branded for car neglect, stay classy BITOG

.

 

[demarpaint]

In re-thinking all of this, maybe the only real sign of neglect here is blindly following marketing hype.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
In re-thinking all of this, maybe the only real sign of neglect here is blindly following marketing hype.


But this is exactly my point, the guy did not follow blindly marketing hype, he had 3 other cars that were on 25k OCI's using Amsoil, two of which had over 200k on them.

I see the same logic used here where some people speak of the oil they used for XX amount of years and they recommend that oil solely based on that little fact.

I think that the neglect is not from the owner but rather from Amsoil for not researching DI engines more and revising their OCi recommendations.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

I think that the neglect is not from the owner but rather from Amsoil for not researching DI engines more and revising their OCi recommendations.


No argument here Kris

The oil has yet to be proven in DI engine applications. Lab testing and the real world are two very different things. My guess is Amsoil will change the interval, after real world consumer testing [ouch]. It took real world consumer testing to realize the small can filters weren't up to the task for some Honda and Toyota applications. I guess this is how some products evolve.

The owner did however go on blind faith, following marketing hype, and probably past experience in different engine designs. I've said extended drain intervals are not for everyone. Maybe that statement needs some tweaking. Maybe I should add: What might be good under identical conditions for one car might not be good for another. Funny thing here is Amsoil said the oil was still good, so even if he tested the oil at 10,000 miles the report would have stated the oil was good. My apologies to the vehicle owner!